Le_THieN
Smash Lord
Out of some newfound, left-field inspiration, I’ve decided to compile a short list of feasible follow-ups out of a dash attack approach. I ran a few searches to make sure similar topics haven’t already been covered in other threads, and some of you might even question the legitimacy of committing this to text since some of these ideas are common sense, but recent discussion regarding what the “fastest” follow-ups out of a cartwheel in pastaboy’s combo video have prompted me to delve further into the finer details of every option. Some of these you are all undoubtedly already familiar with, but there may perhaps be one or two things that haven’t occurred with others, and I’d like to take this opportunity to share what I know.
Firstly, a short examination on the properties of the cartwheel is in order. As we all know, the cartwheel is a swift multi-hit option that has virtually zero cool-down time with low knock-back at early percents. This makes pretty much every single ground attack that Diddy has in his arsenal a guaranteed hit, thus simultaneously making the cartwheel arguably the most fluid and versatile dash attack approach in the game.
The most important thing that fans of the cartwheel ought to keep in mind is that simply landing any of the three hits of the attack doesn’t necessarily guarantee a follow-up. Occasionally, improper spacing will result in one or more of the hits in the move to be whiffed, often resulting lower-than-usual hit-stun and vertical knock-back so low that no follow-up is really viable. Really, the most critical hit in the cartwheel is the third hit, because that is the hit with the most stun time and is also what is responsible for the vertical knock-back that allows Diddy to combo in the first place. So, as long as the third hit of the cartwheel connects and your opponent isn't already at high damage, you are pretty much guaranteed to land any move you decide to follow up with.
Conversely, if an opponent shields all three hits of the cartwheel or – in an even rarer and more demoralizing and inexplicable scenario – somehow actually manages to accidentally perfect-shield either the second or third hit of the dash attack, they will now have the option to shield-grab immediately after the third hit, regardless of how fast your intended follow-up options might be. Your moves could have the speed of ROB’s D-smash, and a shield grab will still probably beat it. This is the main reason why you shouldn't focus on what's the fastest follow-up option out of a dash attack, but instead on which hits actually landed and whether or not you’re in a position to be penalized. Just because programmers gave Diddy mains the best dash attack in the game doesn't mean they didn't make it punishable.
With that said here is my personal list of recommended options out of a cartwheel.
• any aerial
F-air seems to be the most common and instinctive option amongst Diddy users. There’s nothing particularly wrong with this, although it is very basic, does not maximize damage and decays a potential KO option. U-air is also occasionally used if an opponent’s knock-back and directional influence off the cartwheel positions them directly above Diddy. Really though, the best aerial option immediately out of the cartwheel ought to be Diddy’s D-air spike no matter where you are on the stage, especially if all you are concerned with is quick damage. If you were are near the edge, then great news: you have successfully taken a stock off your opponent. If not, you’re still employing the use of a move that arguably has the least success in connecting, and move decay on spikes are usually always insignificant. What’s more is that most people won’t be ready to tech as soon as they hit the ground, opening up the possibility of roll-chasing or baiting stand-up attacks.
• D-tilt
This move requires little explanation as to why it’s an excellent option: it’s blisteringly fast, has small knock-back (making it spammable) and doubles as a decent spacing tool even if it’s blocked. F-tilts are great finishers once they are spaced into sweetspot range, and it is heavily recommended that you go in for the dash grab after one or two D-tilts as it is usually unexpected. Proceed to pound and throw to your heart’s content.
• U-smash
The good thing with U-smashing out of a cartwheel is that the transition between a successfully-landed dash attack and the U-smash is almost seamless. It's also guaranteed damage in the neighborhood of 21-24% and can be done back to back two and sometimes even three times depending on your opponent's weight and how much damage they have accrued. This sometimes unavoidable spamming of U-smash is attractive because it will still deal 14% damage even after maximum decay. This, obviously, is mathematically quite a bit of damage off of one repeated move as long as you remain proficient in repositioning yourself according to your opponent’s DI, and even better if you can force them to air-dodge and punish them either as soon as their hurt-boxes rematerialize or as they land. It also goes without saying that this keeps the remainder of your moves fresh.
The only real downside here is that although the cool-down time on the U-smash is relatively short, it's still long enough to severely limit your follow-up options.
•U-tilt
Personally, I favor U-tilting out of the cartwheel the majority of the time. It is, as far as I know, just as quick as U-smash but also grants you the most options for you to extend your combo. Out of this, every aerial is still an applicable finisher, although there is very little more rewarding than pivoting immediately on the spot after a successfully connected U-tilt into a RARed double B-air. This usually only works at relatively low percentages, but heavier characters with lazy directional influence are occasionally susceptible to this string up to two times.
Another viable follow-up that you can branch out of the U-tilt is the U-smash. Even better: you can spam U-tilt until you bait the air-dodge, and then just follow them and U-smash for some bonus damage. Even if you chase down your opponent's air-dodge and accidentally activate U-smash before they reappear, they will most likely still eat the second and last hits (or just the last hit) of the attack. Sometimes it's even in your best interest to just prematurely activate the U-smash so that you don't run the risk of your opponent fluking him- or herself into a perfect shield upon landing (which is personally one of the most irritating things about this entire game). There quite literally is a plethora of things you can do out of an U-tilt before high knock-back sets in.
• pivot grab
One of the really neat things about Diddy is that he has surprisingly responsive pivot movement. I figured this out a couple of months ago when I started RARing smash banana tosses off the ledge for edge-guarding purposes, and this is where I eventually figured out that with a quick flick of the joystick, Diddy can RAR B-airs on the spot immediately out of an U-tilt. What's even trickier is that if you land a cartwheel approach too deeply into your opponent and end up on the other side of them, you pivot immediately out of the cartwheel and pivot-grab them from the other side. This is especially effective in the few instances you cartwheel through your opponent's shield.
On a side note, if your opponent manages to block the entirety of the dash attack, but you suspect your opponent doesn't have a very quick reaction time, you can always annoy them by going for a shield grab yourself if they manage to block your dash attack. There really shouldn’t be any reason that you don't go for this every time someone shield against the cartwheel; either they respond accordingly by punishing your advance, or you turn perilously bad positioning back into your favor.
Firstly, a short examination on the properties of the cartwheel is in order. As we all know, the cartwheel is a swift multi-hit option that has virtually zero cool-down time with low knock-back at early percents. This makes pretty much every single ground attack that Diddy has in his arsenal a guaranteed hit, thus simultaneously making the cartwheel arguably the most fluid and versatile dash attack approach in the game.
The most important thing that fans of the cartwheel ought to keep in mind is that simply landing any of the three hits of the attack doesn’t necessarily guarantee a follow-up. Occasionally, improper spacing will result in one or more of the hits in the move to be whiffed, often resulting lower-than-usual hit-stun and vertical knock-back so low that no follow-up is really viable. Really, the most critical hit in the cartwheel is the third hit, because that is the hit with the most stun time and is also what is responsible for the vertical knock-back that allows Diddy to combo in the first place. So, as long as the third hit of the cartwheel connects and your opponent isn't already at high damage, you are pretty much guaranteed to land any move you decide to follow up with.
Conversely, if an opponent shields all three hits of the cartwheel or – in an even rarer and more demoralizing and inexplicable scenario – somehow actually manages to accidentally perfect-shield either the second or third hit of the dash attack, they will now have the option to shield-grab immediately after the third hit, regardless of how fast your intended follow-up options might be. Your moves could have the speed of ROB’s D-smash, and a shield grab will still probably beat it. This is the main reason why you shouldn't focus on what's the fastest follow-up option out of a dash attack, but instead on which hits actually landed and whether or not you’re in a position to be penalized. Just because programmers gave Diddy mains the best dash attack in the game doesn't mean they didn't make it punishable.
With that said here is my personal list of recommended options out of a cartwheel.
• any aerial
F-air seems to be the most common and instinctive option amongst Diddy users. There’s nothing particularly wrong with this, although it is very basic, does not maximize damage and decays a potential KO option. U-air is also occasionally used if an opponent’s knock-back and directional influence off the cartwheel positions them directly above Diddy. Really though, the best aerial option immediately out of the cartwheel ought to be Diddy’s D-air spike no matter where you are on the stage, especially if all you are concerned with is quick damage. If you were are near the edge, then great news: you have successfully taken a stock off your opponent. If not, you’re still employing the use of a move that arguably has the least success in connecting, and move decay on spikes are usually always insignificant. What’s more is that most people won’t be ready to tech as soon as they hit the ground, opening up the possibility of roll-chasing or baiting stand-up attacks.
• D-tilt
This move requires little explanation as to why it’s an excellent option: it’s blisteringly fast, has small knock-back (making it spammable) and doubles as a decent spacing tool even if it’s blocked. F-tilts are great finishers once they are spaced into sweetspot range, and it is heavily recommended that you go in for the dash grab after one or two D-tilts as it is usually unexpected. Proceed to pound and throw to your heart’s content.
• U-smash
The good thing with U-smashing out of a cartwheel is that the transition between a successfully-landed dash attack and the U-smash is almost seamless. It's also guaranteed damage in the neighborhood of 21-24% and can be done back to back two and sometimes even three times depending on your opponent's weight and how much damage they have accrued. This sometimes unavoidable spamming of U-smash is attractive because it will still deal 14% damage even after maximum decay. This, obviously, is mathematically quite a bit of damage off of one repeated move as long as you remain proficient in repositioning yourself according to your opponent’s DI, and even better if you can force them to air-dodge and punish them either as soon as their hurt-boxes rematerialize or as they land. It also goes without saying that this keeps the remainder of your moves fresh.
The only real downside here is that although the cool-down time on the U-smash is relatively short, it's still long enough to severely limit your follow-up options.
•U-tilt
Personally, I favor U-tilting out of the cartwheel the majority of the time. It is, as far as I know, just as quick as U-smash but also grants you the most options for you to extend your combo. Out of this, every aerial is still an applicable finisher, although there is very little more rewarding than pivoting immediately on the spot after a successfully connected U-tilt into a RARed double B-air. This usually only works at relatively low percentages, but heavier characters with lazy directional influence are occasionally susceptible to this string up to two times.
Another viable follow-up that you can branch out of the U-tilt is the U-smash. Even better: you can spam U-tilt until you bait the air-dodge, and then just follow them and U-smash for some bonus damage. Even if you chase down your opponent's air-dodge and accidentally activate U-smash before they reappear, they will most likely still eat the second and last hits (or just the last hit) of the attack. Sometimes it's even in your best interest to just prematurely activate the U-smash so that you don't run the risk of your opponent fluking him- or herself into a perfect shield upon landing (which is personally one of the most irritating things about this entire game). There quite literally is a plethora of things you can do out of an U-tilt before high knock-back sets in.
• pivot grab
One of the really neat things about Diddy is that he has surprisingly responsive pivot movement. I figured this out a couple of months ago when I started RARing smash banana tosses off the ledge for edge-guarding purposes, and this is where I eventually figured out that with a quick flick of the joystick, Diddy can RAR B-airs on the spot immediately out of an U-tilt. What's even trickier is that if you land a cartwheel approach too deeply into your opponent and end up on the other side of them, you pivot immediately out of the cartwheel and pivot-grab them from the other side. This is especially effective in the few instances you cartwheel through your opponent's shield.
On a side note, if your opponent manages to block the entirety of the dash attack, but you suspect your opponent doesn't have a very quick reaction time, you can always annoy them by going for a shield grab yourself if they manage to block your dash attack. There really shouldn’t be any reason that you don't go for this every time someone shield against the cartwheel; either they respond accordingly by punishing your advance, or you turn perilously bad positioning back into your favor.
