Ryusuta
Smash Master
I've noticed that a lot of people have had trouble with this, in some cases forcing them to alter their game (and make other ATs more difficult in the process) by turning tap jump off. This, of course, is so they can perform Yoshi's Egg Toss BEFORE using his second jump when returning to the stage.
Well, I'm here to tell you that this is something you don't need to worry about. You CAN perform the Egg Toss before using his second jump with tap jump on, and you can do so WITHOUT altering your game significantly or putting yourself at an increased risk.
How, you might ask? Well, there are actually a number of methods.
The first is the most reliable, and takes the least practice.
Directional influence Egg Toss
Because it is a natural (and intelligent) instinct to DI down and toward the stage when receiving an attack that knocks you away, you're already doing half of what you need to in order to get back.
At the END of your DI - and this also works with double-stick DIs, dodge DIs, and action DIs - immediately roll the analog stick upward. Because you are still reeling (or otherwise reacting) from the attack, the game will NOT register a jump, but WILL recognize that you are pointing the stick upward. Now, you can return to the stage exactly as you would with tap jump off. Your DI isn't effected, because your reaction to the attack continues just a TINY bit after your knockback ends.
Action/dodge Egg Toss
This is a tiny bit less practical extension of the previous method (though still incredibly helpful). If you're performing an action you can't immediately jump out of in the air (such as an air dodge), you can instantly roll the stick upward and Egg Toss jump out of it. This is helpful to know against chasers, in case you need to dodge or fight back BEFORE you make your return to the stage.
Held-stick Egg Toss
This is an extension of the DI Egg Toss. When using tap jump, the jump is only registered the MOMENT up is pressed. If the "up" input is already being overridden by something (as shown before), it will not be registered as a second jump. So, in this case, if you're on the ground and you press and HOLD up on the analog stick, you will perform your single first jump. From that single jump, you can then perform Egg Toss jumps with Up B. Should a second jump be required, release and re-press up on the analog stick (or smply press a jump button). This is obviously not practical for recovery, BUT it can be vital for spacing.
Perfect-timing Egg Toss
This is the least practical of the three only because it carries a significant risk. Simply put, if you time the up B just right - generally B is depressed a couple of frames (not seconds) before up is - you can do the Egg Toss before the jump is registered.
The main concern with the Perfect-timing Egg Toss is that if you do this incorrectly, the Egg Toss will almost always cancel the second jump just as it starts, meaning you do an Egg Toss without getting the benefit of the second jump. As such, practice and timing are critical for this.
*NEW!*Aerial Tilt Egg Toss
I actually just had a brainstorm when thinking of better ways to attempt the "Perfect timing" method. Essentially, I broke down the timing of the motion and arrived at the conclusion that there IS a slightly safer way to pull it off... safer, that is, if you have good analog control.
This new method carries a similar risk to the Perfect-timing method, though is a little more fail-safe. The Aerial Tilt Egg Toss jump is just that - performing a tilt in the air in order to perform the Egg Toss. What I discovered through some experimentation that with tap jump on, you can actually press up without a jump being registered.
To perform the Aerial Tilt Egg Toss, simply TILT (do NOT press) the analog stick upward and press the B button during your jump. Like performing an up-tilt attack on the ground without jumping, you barely need to move the stick - one 16th of the way up is plenty - to perform the attack. This should prove to be useful as an all-purpose method, and could very well replace the Perfect-timing method both in terms of versatility and risk. (In this case, messing up really only consists of pressing the stick too hard, giving you the second jump instead of a potentially dangerous Egg Toss.)
So, what is it, exactly, that's going on with all of these?
The key to doing Egg Toss jumps effectively with analog jump on is to "distract" the game when you press up on the analog stick, so that it doesn't think you're trying to jump.
In all of the cases, the idea is to override the second jump with something that takes precedence (such as attack stun or dodge frames). The reason this is very practical is because there are basically no cases in which you can't perform one of these methods. For recovery purposes, the DI roll is the safest bet. For recovering against a chaser, the Action/Dodge is important to remember. For spacing, held-stick can be vital. And for situations when a sudden Egg Toss jump might be required, the Perfect-timing and the new Aerial Tilt methods can be very helpful.
I hope that this will serve you all well, especially those that love Yoshi but can't play without tap jump on. I can try to make a video of the various methods, though I only have a digital camera, and not a screen capturing device. I'd love to hear more input and questions regarding this, and I hope this will help Yoshi's game for everyone.
Well, I'm here to tell you that this is something you don't need to worry about. You CAN perform the Egg Toss before using his second jump with tap jump on, and you can do so WITHOUT altering your game significantly or putting yourself at an increased risk.
How, you might ask? Well, there are actually a number of methods.
The first is the most reliable, and takes the least practice.
Directional influence Egg Toss
Because it is a natural (and intelligent) instinct to DI down and toward the stage when receiving an attack that knocks you away, you're already doing half of what you need to in order to get back.
At the END of your DI - and this also works with double-stick DIs, dodge DIs, and action DIs - immediately roll the analog stick upward. Because you are still reeling (or otherwise reacting) from the attack, the game will NOT register a jump, but WILL recognize that you are pointing the stick upward. Now, you can return to the stage exactly as you would with tap jump off. Your DI isn't effected, because your reaction to the attack continues just a TINY bit after your knockback ends.
Action/dodge Egg Toss
This is a tiny bit less practical extension of the previous method (though still incredibly helpful). If you're performing an action you can't immediately jump out of in the air (such as an air dodge), you can instantly roll the stick upward and Egg Toss jump out of it. This is helpful to know against chasers, in case you need to dodge or fight back BEFORE you make your return to the stage.
Held-stick Egg Toss
This is an extension of the DI Egg Toss. When using tap jump, the jump is only registered the MOMENT up is pressed. If the "up" input is already being overridden by something (as shown before), it will not be registered as a second jump. So, in this case, if you're on the ground and you press and HOLD up on the analog stick, you will perform your single first jump. From that single jump, you can then perform Egg Toss jumps with Up B. Should a second jump be required, release and re-press up on the analog stick (or smply press a jump button). This is obviously not practical for recovery, BUT it can be vital for spacing.
Perfect-timing Egg Toss
This is the least practical of the three only because it carries a significant risk. Simply put, if you time the up B just right - generally B is depressed a couple of frames (not seconds) before up is - you can do the Egg Toss before the jump is registered.
The main concern with the Perfect-timing Egg Toss is that if you do this incorrectly, the Egg Toss will almost always cancel the second jump just as it starts, meaning you do an Egg Toss without getting the benefit of the second jump. As such, practice and timing are critical for this.
*NEW!*Aerial Tilt Egg Toss
I actually just had a brainstorm when thinking of better ways to attempt the "Perfect timing" method. Essentially, I broke down the timing of the motion and arrived at the conclusion that there IS a slightly safer way to pull it off... safer, that is, if you have good analog control.
This new method carries a similar risk to the Perfect-timing method, though is a little more fail-safe. The Aerial Tilt Egg Toss jump is just that - performing a tilt in the air in order to perform the Egg Toss. What I discovered through some experimentation that with tap jump on, you can actually press up without a jump being registered.
To perform the Aerial Tilt Egg Toss, simply TILT (do NOT press) the analog stick upward and press the B button during your jump. Like performing an up-tilt attack on the ground without jumping, you barely need to move the stick - one 16th of the way up is plenty - to perform the attack. This should prove to be useful as an all-purpose method, and could very well replace the Perfect-timing method both in terms of versatility and risk. (In this case, messing up really only consists of pressing the stick too hard, giving you the second jump instead of a potentially dangerous Egg Toss.)
So, what is it, exactly, that's going on with all of these?
The key to doing Egg Toss jumps effectively with analog jump on is to "distract" the game when you press up on the analog stick, so that it doesn't think you're trying to jump.
In all of the cases, the idea is to override the second jump with something that takes precedence (such as attack stun or dodge frames). The reason this is very practical is because there are basically no cases in which you can't perform one of these methods. For recovery purposes, the DI roll is the safest bet. For recovering against a chaser, the Action/Dodge is important to remember. For spacing, held-stick can be vital. And for situations when a sudden Egg Toss jump might be required, the Perfect-timing and the new Aerial Tilt methods can be very helpful.
I hope that this will serve you all well, especially those that love Yoshi but can't play without tap jump on. I can try to make a video of the various methods, though I only have a digital camera, and not a screen capturing device. I'd love to hear more input and questions regarding this, and I hope this will help Yoshi's game for everyone.
Werd holla.
