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Can pound can sweetspot?! [Disproven!]

DJ Kat

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Alright, thread over, everyone go home!

Pound, along with any other attack, ESPECIALLY REST OR ROLLOUT, will kill alot earlier (about 20-30%) if you attack your enemy while they're charging a smash attack. Regardless of the Smash attack's direction, they will go skyrocketing off the screen; however, DI afterwards was not tested.. if possible...

Short story: Attack your enemy while they're charging a smash attack with a pound, Rest, or Rollout, and they'll die even faster. Good luck finding anyone who charges smash attacks.........





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Okay, here's the deal: Somehow, for some reason, I've killed people with pound before 166%. I realize that character die at different percents, because of weight, but the two characters in these videos are heavier than Mario! What sense does that make?

Right now, like in all pound-related mishaps, DI seems to be the crucial role in the phenomenon.

Personally, I believe it to be a sweetspot! Whichever it may be, we need to find out how to do it consistantly!

Videos:
--------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpUfht_uetQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFq4A5AjU1U
 

ddonaldo

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very mysterious, but judging from what lucario was doing there is a good chance he was smash DIing towards you which caused the vertical knockback. could be a sweetspot though, would be pretty kool
 

Tyser

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Pound always sends people directly up if you pound when you're on them. Same thing went on in Melee, I cant say for 64 though. I cant believe that move killed at 130 though o.O.
 

illinialex24

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Pound always sends people directly up if you pound when you're on them. Same thing went on in Melee, I cant say for 64 though. I cant believe that move killed at 130 though o.O.
I believe it was because u didn't degenerate it at all the rest of the match. Otherwise, I have no explanations. And a bad DI shouldn't have a huge effect.
 

DJ Kat

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Unfortunately I used pound a lot in that match, it's one of my favorite moves to spam.
 

DJ Kat

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Hey people, I'm back again with more random occurrences....

This time, pound killed a Yoshi at 137%, sending him skyrocketing upward. Did I mention that this pound did 12% as opposed to the 11%?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFq4A5AjU1U&watch_response

Honestly, this pound mystery is starting to drive me crazy. In the first video, in my first post, Lucario was at 120%, and died from a pound in the same manner, but only took 11% damage.

What I've noticed, is in both videos, the characters are between 120% -140% damage, and when I pound, it's a horizontal pound, directly after landing, leveled with the stage.

You think this all means something? o_O

P.S. I pound atleast 75% of the match, so the degeneration isn't a factor.

P.P.S. Actually, I died before using pound in each video, so degeneration could be a factor >_>
 

illinialex24

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Hey people, I'm back again with more random occurrences....

This time, pound killed a Yoshi at 137%, sending him skyrocketing upward. Did I mention that this pound did 12% as opposed to the 11%?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFq4A5AjU1U&watch_response

Honestly, this pound mystery is starting to drive me crazy. In the first video, in my first post, Lucario was at 120%, and died from a pound in the same manner, but only took 11% damage.

What I've noticed, is in both videos, the characters are between 120% -140% damage, and when I pound, it's a horizontal pound, directly after landing, leveled with the stage.

You think this all means something? o_O

P.S. I pound atleast 75% of the match, so the degeneration isn't a factor.

P.P.S. Actually, I died before using pound in each video, so degeneration could be a factor >_>
That should be a sweetspot. Thats really weird cause the classic damage is 11%. I know pounds hitbox is very weird, on either edge it sends a trajectory of around 45 degrees. This could become fairly useful if mastered. If that was your first pound after dying, it should have greatly increased the knockback but likely not that much.
 

PND

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I think it's because you're on the ground. I'm pretty sure there's a difference between aerial pound and ground pound, although I haven't done any extensive testing into it.

It might be that ground pound has more vertical knockback, or is less DIable. Or it might be that because ground pound moves you less of a distance it's easier to hit Pound's magical sweetspot.

These are theories, and could be completely false. However I've used Ground Pound to kill on many occasions, so I think further testing is needed. I could simply be that my pound degenerated enough to kill, but I think there's something more to it.

EDIT: I've done some rough testing on this:

**After every test, I would kill both myself and Mario to reset move degeneration.**

I made a custom level that is just platforms, stacked directly on top of eachother.

Aerial pound and ground pound at 0% had no difference, they wouldn't put a Mario up high enough onto the first platform. This is taking into consideration the different ways aerial pound can hit (rising, falling, with top of pound, with bottom of pound) the angles the Mario was sent at were marginally differed, but that was it.

I then tested at 100%. Ground Pound put the Mario up 5 levels (a fairly high distance, mind you) Aerial pound did the same, all varieties. I'll note, Ground pound looked like it sent Mario a bit closer to 6, but he fell down to 5, whereas aerial pound made him just barely land on 5. Not a massive difference, but one worth noting.

Here's where it gets a bit interesting:
I then decided to accommodate for decay in the moves. I went to 100%, but I threw 2 pounds in to decay the move a bit. Aerial pound only went up 3 platforms, whereas ground pound went up 4.

Ground pound's knock back decays less, perhaps? I'll retest in a little while (once my brother gets home) at higher percents and I'll factor in DI. I'll also retest what I just tested to expand on and reconfirm these results.
 

illinialex24

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I think it's because you're on the ground. I'm pretty sure there's a difference between aerial pound and ground pound, although I haven't done any extensive testing into it.

It might be that ground pound has more vertical knockback, or is less DIable. Or it might be that because ground pound moves you less of a distance it's easier to hit Pound's magical sweetspot.

These are theories, and could be completely false. However I've used Ground Pound to kill on many occasions, so I think further testing is needed. I could simply be that my pound degenerated enough to kill, but I think there's something more to it.
Move degeneration makes the moves weaker, not stronger. It has less knockback and damage, and is caused by moves hitting a shield, a player, and is reset after you die.
 

PND

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I meant regenerated . . . whoops

EDIT: Anyway, I edited my post above. . . as you were quoting me :chuckle: I did a bit of testing. Take a look.
 

DJ Kat

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I've also tried similar test, going at it for at a week.

Is there some kind of replay decompiler that shows us the button inputs for each character. Tha'd be a huge help in finding the factor that we're missing.
 

Glick

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Its an aerial pound that turns into a grounded pound, sometimes resulting in a silent pound, like i've mentioned before. and the only reason I mentioned it was because there was something weird about it. I went into training mode and had a lucario at 120 charging a fsmash and a jigglypuff at 13 pounded completely grounded and he almost died. on FD. I cant due it due to lack of another arm, but someone try doing a downwards pound into the ground while a lucario is charging an Fsmash at the same percents I described.

Should work.
 

illinialex24

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Its an aerial pound that turns into a grounded pound, sometimes resulting in a silent pound, like i've mentioned before. and the only reason I mentioned it was because there was something weird about it. I went into training mode and had a lucario at 120 charging a fsmash and a jigglypuff at 13 pounded completely grounded and he almost died. on FD. I cant due it due to lack of another arm, but someone try doing a downwards pound into the ground while a lucario is charging an Fsmash at the same percents I described.

Should work.
I think this is a sweetspot. However, pound shouldn't be used as a kill move either way, mainly because its way too spammable and fair is a much better kill move that is safe if used well.
 

Glick

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Not saying it should be, but I've had to kill with pound when rollout and fair are all weakened.
 

Tenki

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This time, pound killed a Yoshi at 137%, sending him skyrocketing upward. Did I mention that this pound did 12% as opposed to the 11%?
fractional damage, maybe?

It's the most probable answer. Someone on the Sonic boards saw the same thing (lol, 11%-->12%) with Sonic's N-air.
 

DJ Kat

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Of course, it's just something to add.

Still, the knockback is what gets me.
 

PND

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I haven't come up with any conclusive results from my testing. I'm still trying to work out why, it must have been a combination of bad DI and a fresh pound.
 

Adapt

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fractional damage, maybe?

It's the most probable answer. Someone on the Sonic boards saw the same thing (lol, 11%-->12%) with Sonic's N-air.
Iirc a fully regenerated move does like 102% the face value of damage or something like that. I can't remember where I read this though.

Fractional damage is likely, but it still doesn't explain the lower percentage kills.
 

DJ Kat

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Okay, I figured it out.

Turns out, it's nothing but bad DI - I just test it with my little brother:

Put Lucario at 120% on Final Destination, but have him charge his forward smash. After that, just DI upwards, and have Jigglypuff pound on him.

He'll die, and that's that.

/topic.

Edit: Hold up, it's not working consistantly anymore >_>

Double Edit: Okay, just had my brother charge smash attacks on a Yoshi who was damaged at 130%. Yoshi died while charging his smash attacks, but when he wasn't moving, he just lived. He was charging FSmash and Usmash when he died.

Another edit: Seems characters will die if they're charging a smash attack after they're hit with a pound, regardless of rising, falling, or horizontal pound. Thing is, Mario dies from this at 130%, so I don't know how useful it is. ...Yay, we all learned another useless fact.
 

Tyser

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Sometimes I hate these forums for pointing out random stuff that dont even matter. "Pound kills at very high %." That is all that needed to be said.
 

Adapt

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Double Edit: Okay, just had my brother charge smash attacks on a Yoshi who was damaged at 130%. Yoshi died while charging his smash attacks, but when he wasn't moving, he just lived. He was charging FSmash and Usmash when he died.

Another edit: Seems characters will die if they're charging a smash attack after they're hit with a pound, regardless of rising, falling, or horizontal pound. Thing is, Mario dies from this at 130%, so I don't know how useful it is. ...Yay, we all learned another useless fact.

Does this work for other moves? Try rest and rollout Maybe people fly further when charging moves
 

DJ Kat

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Well, it was done charging every smash attack, so any one of those = death.

....Wouldn't y'know, Jigglypuff dies at 90% from this. >_>

Too bad no one charges smash attacks in competitive play.

Also, yes it does work on Rollout and Rest. ...Hell, with this, it kills Jigglypuff at 30% with rest.
 

Adapt

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I think it was just a bad DI. And are you a new puff user adapt??
I have been a casual puff user since SSB64. I'm not particularly good with her, but she's fun to use :)

Well, it was done charging every smash attack, so any one of those = death.

....Wouldn't y'know, Jigglypuff dies at 90% from this. >_>

Too bad no one charges smash attacks in competitive play.

Also, yes it does work on Rollout and Rest. ...Hell, with this, it kills Jigglypuff at 30% with rest.
You may have found a general glitch. Don't DI or anything, just use a c-stick to start the smash and hold A (same time) to charge it. If it still works then I would suggest checking other character's moves and then make a post in tactical discussion.
 

PND

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Z can also be used to charge smashes. I do it all the time to delay my dashing Usmashes when the opponent tries to dodge.
 

DJ Kat

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I have been a casual puff user since SSB64. I'm not particularly good with her, but she's fun to use :)



You may have found a general glitch. Don't DI or anything, just use a c-stick to start the smash and hold A (same time) to charge it. If it still works then I would suggest checking other character's moves and then make a post in tactical discussion.
....And I have NO way of doing that.. I doubt my little brother could do that, and I can't depend on him for that type of timing. If it does work aginst C-Stick smashes, then we've got quite a unique counter, huh?

A Snakedash is technically a charged smash, so that could be an application of it.
I suppose that could work, but Snake is so heavy, I doubt it'd be of any use...
 
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