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Frigate Orpheon mechanics

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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I believe I have a general understanding of the mechanics of how this stage flips now. I did several trials in training mode to conclude what I am posting. I am sure of one thing though; Frigate Orpheon's flipping is 100% non-random (when it flips is random of course, but the RESULTS of the flip are completely predictable).

*This is just a THEORY based off the evidence I have witnessed. Alternative and more scientific testing could be interesting and perhaps supplant my theory.*

The stage actually spins; think of the other half as always existing above you, and when it flips, it's like being in a centrifuge. You will always end up at the same coordinate you started unless an object (either the form you start on or the form you land on) gets in your way. The first form always spins to the left (clockwise) while the second form always spins to the right (counterclockwise). Your momentum when it starts spinning is conserved so moving before it spins can result in you being flung in quite the odd way, but basic physics could always predict where you end up (given that brawl uses havok, I bet it's accurate).

As per useful hints to not ending up under the stage, here's what I can offer:

Being in extreme positions results in a net non-change. If you are very high up, you shouldn't come in contact with the stage at all and should translate to the same position. Being very low works the same way but is obviously unsafe for most of the cast.

The left side of the first form and the right side of the second form should be the safer sides. If you are on these sides, the form you start on won't "drag" you as much when it flips.

The only way you are going to get caught under the stage is if you enter the second half below it. Higher elevations are safer for sure; the dojo's advice is rock solid in this regard.

Not being moving on the left platform on the first form ends with you standing on solid ground 100% of the time.

About the report of being star KO's when it flipped, I have only one explanation. If you found just the wrong position, you might get "snagged" on the form of the stage you are flipping away from. If you did get stuck as such, surely you would be killed off the top. It's incredibly unfortunate and incredibly unlikely (I have not managed to reproduce it), and the only way it will happen is if you are on the wrong half of the stage when it starts flipping.
 

K 2

Smash Lord
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Oh cool, I never knew that. I always thought of it as the center stage flipping and you were playing on the bottom side of the same stage.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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It didn't take very long really, and the dividends in not dying to the stage should be well worth it.

What's amazing is how little attention this topic got. I was under the impression that being killed by the stage was something that frustrated most players.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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I never had that problem...I don't think it's used that often, so nobody complains...
 

ParanoidDrone

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Jan 26, 2008
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Amazing Ampharos said:
The stage actually spins; think of the other half as always existing above you, and when it flips, it's like being in a centrifuge.
This. If you use Olimar's Final Smash, you can actually see the other half of the stage while the Bulborbs munch on your competition.
 

BlackWaltzX

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
1,013
I've had someone test this for me a while ago. Basically he's right on most of the stuff.
Here's the key spots to watch for.


(Posted from my Olimar Guide)

Transformation: When you hear the warning noise, the stage will transform (NOT flip) and you will appear in the sky randomly and generally die, as an Olimar player. So here is how to combat that awful noise.
Down+B TWICE. If you do it once, it sometimes brings just two or three to you.
Jump in the air ONCE. If you do this, you will appear on the second part at the top right of the screen in the air.
Go on the platform on the top left. This will place you gently on the right side of the second part of the stage. (Best location)

((Second part of it))
Transformation: When the warning noise comes, this time you can stand anywhere. If on the ground, you go to the top left, if in the air, top right.




Basically, if you want to test it, plug in 4 players, have them stand at key spots (Platform, underneath it, moving platform on right and in the air).
Second one would be Platform, cup, and both edges.

-----
If you are doing a tether grab, you will not move anywhere, however, the tether will break so you must use your tether again. Jumping in the air is safe. Being under the platform on the first form will KILL YOU for some characters.
It ruins the sync of your stuff too.
Well, I hope that this also helps.

EDIT)) Alot of people counterpick this if you play as Olimar, so it is very much so used, to my sadness.
 

CJTHeroofTime

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ARRGH! I got knocked out of a tourney this week because of the Star-KO gimp!!
I CP'd Orpheon because it is a great stage for ROB... I had a 1 stock lead with only 25% when the stage flipped. My opponent was in the air on the other side, I was just standing on the stage... Next thing you know, both of our jaws drop as we try to figure out what had just happened... After that, my concentration was blown and I lost.
 

~Peachy~

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<3

♥ Very interesting info. ;)

♥I just wished that monster in the background would let loose once and a while.

♥Sure it might become a banned stage, but it would be very entertaining to see players get attacked by that hideous creature. ;)
 

AlKrauser

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Nov 29, 2008
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Sterling Heights

♥ Very interesting info. ;)

♥I just wished that monster in the background would let loose once and a while.

♥Sure it might become a banned stage, but it would be very entertaining to see players get attacked by that hideous creature. ;)
yeah, that would be funny. It would either break the glass and attack the map from the background or break the glass, leave the map thruough the side, and then fly in from left or right.




In brawl, there should be an option to turn things like that off
FO: If it were to happen, the queen attacking you.
WW: The microgames
JJ: The fish that comes by every 10 seconds
ect.
 

Nybb

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Victoria, BC
I think the actual blast box also rotates, because I've seen multiple occurrences where somebody was going off the screen to the side during a stage flip, then ended up being instantly star KO'd. And I'm pretty sure they were on the side that the stage was coming down on; i.e. they didn't get pushed up by the stage.
 

Magitek_Knight

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good info Frigate is the best stage by far.. Ridley music is the best by far..... reason enough to pick it.... and yeah i herd rumor of the star ko can happen if you get hit while its flipping to.. iv seen it happen once in my time
 

:mad:

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Heh, yeah. I actually have a replay of my friend getting star ko'ed saved.
Possibly the greatest stage hazard ever.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I think it happens when you are in a particular corner as it flips, upon having seen it happen once, but sadly my Wii is broken so I can't test it.
 

Nicole

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this is really interesting, thanks for checking it out. i'm gonna tell my doubles partner this stuff, he plays olimar and we get CP-ed here alot!
 

Steeler

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AA, i have a question. Months ago, i was playing on this stage's second transformation (the part with a central platform) and, as Charizard, grabbed my opponent as the flip siren came on. i continued to pummel him and he entered the ground release animation just as the stage began to flip. i ended up standing on the stage just fine, and my opponent was caught under the stage.

is there any explanation for this?
 

Niko_K

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Oshawa 905
Also since the stage boundaries are rectangular. If you are in the corners of the stage while it is flipping, the flip will make the square boundary diagonal and thus killing you.
 

anhkheg

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Feb 10, 2009
Messages
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AA, i have a question. Months ago, i was playing on this stage's second transformation (the part with a central platform) and, as Charizard, grabbed my opponent as the flip siren came on. i continued to pummel him and he entered the ground release animation just as the stage began to flip. i ended up standing on the stage just fine, and my opponent was caught under the stage.

is there any explanation for this?
Orpheon has to be one of my favorite stages to play on, specifically for this reason. im not 100% sure exactly why this happens but i think with somthing like the Pitfall (item) effect: part of the animation actually places the opponent "in" the stage so that they get dragged with it and out of the playing zone as the field rotates.
 

zyklon

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I was kinda considering doing something like this since the stage change tends to mess me up if I'm playing as marth or falco and get stuck under the stage during transitions, but you beat me to it, the information is much appreciated
 

arch knight

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Orpheon has to be one of my favorite stages to play on, specifically for this reason. im not 100% sure exactly why this happens but i think with somthing like the Pitfall (item) effect: part of the animation actually places the opponent "in" the stage so that they get dragged with it and out of the playing zone as the field rotates.
ive done that before.
a quick note i might add later is what if your holding the ledge as this happens?
 

Kawaii Poyo

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I LOVE Frigate.

Mainly because the first form is the smallest stage in the game thus making it harder to camp and easier to punish campers. And because I play characters that are hard to gimp the ledge isn't really a problem.

Hell, its HAS flipped and killed me in tourney and I still won the match (and set).
 

jokey665

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I LOVE Frigate.

Mainly because the first form is the smallest stage in the game thus making it harder to camp and easier to punish campers. And because I play characters that are hard to gimp the ledge isn't really a problem.

Hell, its HAS flipped and killed me in tourney and I still won the match (and set).
I have no problem camping like a beast on Frigate, on either form. It's easily one of my favourite stages for ROB.
 

sneakytako

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The stage actually spins; think of the other half as always existing above you, and when it flips, it's like being in a centrifuge. You will always end up at the same coordinate you started unless an object (either the form you start on or the form you land on) gets in your way. The first form always spins to the left (clockwise) while the second form always spins to the right (counterclockwise). Your momentum when it starts spinning is conserved so moving before it spins can result in you being flung in quite the odd way, but basic physics could always predict where you end up (given that brawl uses havok, I bet it's accurate).

.
You have this backwards. The first-second transition spins COUNTERCLOCKWISE, while the second-first spins CLOCKWISE. If you need proof, play this stage on training mode with 3 comps on 1.5x speed, then place your comps in positions around the map. Then when the siren starts, switch to 1/4 speed and you can actually see the stage spin.

This vid shows how the spin from the second-first transition can cause a Star KO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=q5Svwxz2vbs

The luigi gets pushed by the stage moving clockwise, causing him to get KOed. The IC have been moved to a 10-11 o'clock position from the middle of the stage.
 

JigglyPunch

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Mar 29, 2009
Messages
118
I like this stage. I am a HUGE fan of the metroid series and this stage does it justice. I havn't done anything spectacular on it, but I do like the music. I need to try that Star KO thing.
 

professor mgw

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I believe I have a general understanding of the mechanics of how this stage flips now. I did several trials in training mode to conclude what I am posting. I am sure of one thing though; Frigate Orpheon's flipping is 100% non-random (when it flips is random of course, but the RESULTS of the flip are completely predictable).

*This is just a THEORY based off the evidence I have witnessed. Alternative and more scientific testing could be interesting and perhaps supplant my theory.*

The stage actually spins; think of the other half as always existing above you, and when it flips, it's like being in a centrifuge. You will always end up at the same coordinate you started unless an object (either the form you start on or the form you land on) gets in your way. The first form always spins to the left (clockwise) while the second form always spins to the right (counterclockwise). Your momentum when it starts spinning is conserved so moving before it spins can result in you being flung in quite the odd way, but basic physics could always predict where you end up (given that brawl uses havok, I bet it's accurate).

As per useful hints to not ending up under the stage, here's what I can offer:

Being in extreme positions results in a net non-change. If you are very high up, you shouldn't come in contact with the stage at all and should translate to the same position. Being very low works the same way but is obviously unsafe for most of the cast.

The left side of the first form and the right side of the second form should be the safer sides. If you are on these sides, the form you start on won't "drag" you as much when it flips.

The only way you are going to get caught under the stage is if you enter the second half below it. Higher elevations are safer for sure; the dojo's advice is rock solid in this regard.

Not being moving on the left platform on the first form ends with you standing on solid ground 100% of the time.

About the report of being star KO's when it flipped, I have only one explanation. If you found just the wrong position, you might get "snagged" on the form of the stage you are flipping away from. If you did get stuck as such, surely you would be killed off the top. It's incredibly unfortunate and incredibly unlikely (I have not managed to reproduce it), and the only way it will happen is if you are on the wrong half of the stage when it starts flipping.
very good. although a platform in the way may not ALWAYS block your way.
 

DarkAura

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in fact the other stage DOES exist above you... look on your camera thing point it up and to can see the edge of the platform that your not currently fighting on
 

Ruuku

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I think I can confirm what Amazing Ampharos has been saying. I've done a bunch of tests and depending where are during a transition and if you are performing an action that creates some sort of momentum, you will die. So far I've only tested this using Squirtle's A A A combo during a particular transition. I can record some vids but it will take a while since I don't have my recording device with me at the moment.
 

-LzR-

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Nothing has ever happened to me in frigate orpheons turning, except to my friends, shouldn't be hard...
 

Raziek

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Thanks for posting this.

Until now, I was unaware it was even possible to get Star KO'd by the stage, and I play here a LOT. I have been killed once or twice by getting snagged on the 2 -> 1 transition and left off on the right side of the screen, but normally I can just jump into the air towards the middle and be perfectly fine.

Great stage, great read. Nice Job Ampharos.
 
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