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~ Wolf Stage Discussion ~

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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~ The Official Stage Guide ~


Battlefield:



Battlefield is always a decent choice for any character, which is why it's such a popular stage. Due to its shape it generally favours characters, who benefit from platforms. Some characters like Marth, MK or G&W can pressure you safely when you're on a platform, while Snake, Olimar or the Ice Climbers can use the platforms to camp. Wolf is decent at both so it's naturally a good stage for him but it's almost never a bad stage for any character so it has only limited use as a counterpick stage.
If you face opponents with good platform pressure games such as Mr. G&W and Marth it's better to stay on the ground. Against platform campers like Snake you're better off abusing your mobility (especially in the air) and juggling the opponent on the platforms.


Final Destination:



No platforms here, just a rather big, flat stage. Avoid this stage against oponnents, who outlive Wolf: Bowser, DK, D3, Wario and Snake in particular. The bigger your weight/KO-power advantage, the more you benefit from the stage. A character with weak KO options or light weight already has the disadvantage on the stage unless he can edgeguard you (like MK) well or is REALLY good at camping (like Olimar or Falco).
This stage takes quite a bit of practise since you have to get used to the ledges first - you'll probably loose a bunch of stocks before you get used to it.
You might want to avoid this stage against the ICs.


Smashville



There's not much to say about this stage tactically or match-up wise. It has almost no impact on any of Wolfs match-ups. It's never a bad choice but never a really good one either. If you have no better stage to go to you should take it and it's often your prefered starter stage.


Yoshi's Island:



This stage has quite a few things to take note of:

- You can make use of the walljump. It gives you additional recovery options
- The uneven ground affects the timing for 0-lag fair
- Attacking Fly Guys affects the staleness of moves
- After certain time interwalls a "ghost platform" appears offstage on one side, which you can land on.

These are the most prominent attributes of this stage and they're quite easy to get used to. The possiblity to use walljumps and the additional platform even increase Wolfs recovery options so you might consider going there if you're getting gimped a lot. Characters with sub-par recoveries benefit from this stage just as much as Wolf does so watch out for Olimar, Lucario, Falco and Pokémon Trainer.


Delfino Plaza:



This is an awesome stage for Wolf, which gives him lots of options. You have problems to KO people? No problem on Delphino Plaza since utilt and fair are very effective on certain parts of the stage. You have issues with Wolf recovery? No problem on Delphino Plaza since you have to recover only about half as much and you can recover from underneath the stage.
Wolf flexibility is really useful here - his mobility can be exploited just as much as his camping abilities. MK players seem to love this stage and D3 has many 0-death options so you should avoid it against these characters.


Castle Siege:



Castle Siege is a rather underused CP stage. It's not actually a bad stage for Wolf as long as you watch out for the ledges. Other than that you can treat it like a different version of Delphino Plaza - the changing layout of the stage improve the game of flexible characters. Thus it's a decent stage for Wolf.

- On stage 1, you should watch out for the ledges. Platform pressure/camping are prominent tactics.
- Stage 2 has walk off "edges" so stay away from the ground against D3, Pikachu und Falco. Most players prefer to camp untilt the stage changes. It's VERY big so you should wait for KOs until the stage changes to pt3.
- The 3rd stage is similar to lylat cruise. You don't get caught underneath the ledge as often though.

Castle Siege is not often used to CP characters so it's not fully "explored". I like to take Olimar there but it's just a question of personal preference.


Halberd:



This is an awesome stage for Wolf! The low ceiling gives Wolf plenty of KO options: Fair, Utilt, Dsmash...even Usmash work fine here. If KOs are your main concern you should give this stage a try. It's also good when you feel uncomfortable with Wolf's recovery: Aside from the usual going for the ledge you can also try to land on the center platform and you can even recover from underneath the stage (and again aim for the platform). If you have recovery issues or if you are predictable this stage is perfect. Personally I love to use this stage against Marth because he's easy to juggle and can be finished off with fair rather early. I tend to avoid it against Snake though because of his broken utilt...it's too dangerous on that stage...


Lylat Cruise:



This stage was once considered Wolfs worst stage but it's actually not too bad. The ground moves slightly from time to time so watch out for the timing of the auto cancel. You can get stuck underneath the ledge when you recover but due to the angle of your side B it doesn't happen too often. The limited use of blaster and opponents with good platform pressure or edgeguarding abilites (Marth, MK) are your biggest issues when fighting on this stage.


Pokémon Stadium 1:



This is the same Pokémon Stadium as the one from Melee. It starts as a regular starter stage with two small platforms but changes every minute or so. It favours campy characters so it's not a bad stage for Wolf especially since flexibility is yet again a rather important factor. You can get stuck underneath the ledges if you're careless but once you get used to it it shouldn't happen. Other than that it's pretty much a starter stage and a pretty solid one for Wolf.


Brinstar:



Another Melee stage one and again quite a good one for Wolf. It is not too big so dsmash is very good to use and platform camping works quite nicely as well. The lava can hurt you but you won't get hit by it as much as back in the Melee days. It's more notable for other things like the uneven ground and the irregular platform structure and is generally used as a CP stage against Diddy Kong and the Ice Climbers. I also think Wolf does well against Marth and leight characters here so it's quite a good stage for Wolf.


Frigate Orpheon:



Frigate Orpheon can be a difficult stage for Wolf. The right side has no ledges to hold on to - something Wolf heavily depends on. For that reason you'll never use it as a CP stage. However, Wolf doesn't do horribly bad either so you don't need to ban it. Once in a while the stage flips upside down so you fall down until you reach the floor again - sometimes you fall to your doom but it doesn't happen a lot. Usually you'll find a way back to the stage unless you fight a character with good edgeguarding abilites - they like this stage for a reason!


Rainbow Cruise:



This stage is very unpopular among Wolf players, who prefer to ban it. Wolfs aerial mobility and his strong aerial game in general are helpful but the characters, who use this stage as their prefered CP stage **** him mercilessly; King Dedede, MK, G&W and Wario in particular. Olimar, Snake and ICs have strong platform camping so they also have massive advantages on Rainbow Cruise.
Against those characters it's an auto-lose stage and all of them are used quite a lot so you'll find yourself banning this stage most of the time.

:059:
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
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Pokemon Stadium 1 is worse for Wolf than Lylat is. It's edges are just as bad and DDD can chain grab you against the wall during the fire transformation.

Battlefield and FD's ceilings are of identical height.

Battlefield is probably the best neutral to use against chain grabbers. The platforms allow you to poke and build damage from underneath, a situation in which you can't be grabbed.

Also Delfino is amazing for Wolf as long as you're not fighting DDD. You can infinite stall under the main stage. When the stage transforms recovery is not an issue because of water and walkoffs, actually making this stage a great counterpick against good edge guarders. There's also a ton of things that can be Scarred for fun.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Yeah, Pokemon Stadium kills me wayyyy too often. There's a thread with ceiling heights posted somewhere, I'll find it later and post it here.

Castle seige's first stage, where the ledge is really annoying, you can attempt to walljump if you're close enough from the bottom and recover diagonally, but you can still get owned.

I don't have many reasons, but Halberd is awesome. Your laser covers the whole stage when its floating, you can scar, and the ceiling is very low (for utilt).

Jungle Japes was mentioned a while ago. Although I don't remember it being a counterpick in my area, it is helpful against IC and good ceiling killers. This stage takes some getting used to though, once you avoid the klap traps and can avoid the water well it's pretty good.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Jungle Japes will be updated ... it's great but not against Falco and Peach
 

Xsyven

And how!
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I dig this thread. Seems like a good collaborative project for the Wolf forums. Stickied!
 

~ Gheb ~

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Everybody, who has experience on Frigate Orpheon, Pictochat and Pokémon Stadium 2 may share their knowledge with me!
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Frigate Orpheon is a good CP against people who use tether recoveries. Norfair is a good stage to ban against people with tether recoveries.

I like both of these stages, I'm addicted to the ledge so norfair is fun. Plus the small platforms make it easier to avoid chaingrabs, and random sideBs can get you to a ledge. You can dodge the lava with some practice and the ceiling is low for vertical kills on top platforms. Frigate orpheon is sort of like a mix between a crappier smashville and the platform part of halberd, with some minor moving platforms thrown in that can help you ocassionally for recovery, but I can't think of any real strengths it gives wolf.
 

Patinator

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Hmm, you should add one thing to the lists of pros for Halberd. Wolf's Up Tilt kills INSANELY low on that stage as far as my experience goes- it makes as good a kill move as B-Air or D-Air. Maybe even D-Smash; I don't know the specific percents for death.
 

~ Gheb ~

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OK, I've added some details. I'll be a bit busy today, so banned stages will come later...soon enough of course ;)
 

Loup17

Smash Apprentice
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not always, only if you're at a high damage. usually you will survive.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Oh, my bad... I like to go for spikes on Pirate Ship, even though I hate the stage... The catapult thing is cheap as hell, amirite?

edit: and Gheb you might want to add on Pirate Ship as a con that spikes don't work to well, because that is bad for attempting to spike even though it is good for people attempting to spike you.
 

~ Gheb ~

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edit: and Gheb you might want to add on Pirate Ship as a con that spikes don't work to well, because that is bad for attempting to spike even though it is good for people attempting to spike you.
I dunno...I only add the spike issues, when finishing is a problem but that's not the case on the pirate Ship

@ Lord Bowser

Don't worry. If you think you know something, tell us! That's what the thread is here for...
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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I'd just like to say that i think Delfino is the best place to get back from the ledge on because of what I like to call the "Dellfino Scar, " where you drop down and then use Illusion and if you DI to the middle of the stage after dropping, you can jump and then you have the option of using Illusion in either directions. It gives you lots of options. And technically you can get spiked all the time on Pirate Ship if the tornado takes you into the air.
 

Turbo Ether

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I'd just like to say that i think Delfino is the best place to get back from the ledge on because of what I like to call the "Dellfino Scar, " where you drop down and then use Illusion and if you DI to the middle of the stage after dropping, you can jump and then you have the option of using Illusion in either directions. It gives you lots of options. And technically you can get spiked all the time on Pirate Ship if the tornado takes you into the air.
Yeah, this is what I meant when I said Wolf could basically infinite stall under Delfino. Same thing on Brinstar and Distant Planet. You can UpB stall going back and forth under Green Greens too.
 

~ Gheb ~

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OK, I updated the OP a little to make it look a little more sexy.

I will work on it tommorow too, with some other updates.

Any further input is highly appreciated!
 

Peachkid

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i think that norfair is a good stage for wolf personally. its one of the few stages that you can safely use side b and not sd. you usually will grab the edge of one of the platforms, wolf can move around the stage very well. as far as the lava hazards go. the lava wave can be shielded and u wont shield break. assuming you havent used up ur shield already. the only real danger that norfair poses to me is when fireballs shoot out of the back round. and even then its not much.
 

Peachkid

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also the short sky box makes fair, ftlit, and maybe usmash easier to kill with.
 

~ Gheb ~

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It's not complete yet. I'm surprised myself how much testing this needs...
 

~ Gheb ~

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MK isn't affected by stages. Take small ones to finish him asap. Bowser, something where you can do g4y stalling like Jungle Japes
 

Peachkid

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if played really carefully corneria can be pretty good against mk. low ceiling and short killboxes. enables wolf to ko him at low percents. but on the flip side mk can really abuse the right side of the stage, amd the edges too and he can do some really gay things to wolf. so if ur on corneria against mk. play carefully, abuse his light weight, and punish his laggier moves with fsmash or maybe with retreating 0 lag fairs or bairs. save your dsmash, ur gonna want it as fresh as possible. if you play your cards right, this stage can play in your favor
 

Devil.

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Awesome guide.
But on Distant Planet chain grabbers can insta-kill from the left side of the stage not the right side...right?
 

Peachkid

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yeah, the chain grabbers can 0-death cg wolf from the left side. not the right side (right side has the bulborb and its not a walk off.) but whats nice about distant planet. is i think the main platform kinda helps againt cgs cause it bounces and stuff. but idk if this is legitimate, and im too tired to test atm
 
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