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Toon Link Frame Data

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
Frame Data:

Jab:
1st swing total: 19
1st swing hits on frame 6
1st swing shield hit lag: 6
1st swing shield stun: 7
1st swing advantage: -12
1st swing linking to 2nd swing hit box advantage: -8
2nd swing starts as early as frame 9 of 1st swing
2nd swing total: 20
2nd swing hits on frame 6
2nd swing shield hit lag: 5
2nd swing shield stun: 5
2nd swing advantage: -14
2nd swing linking to 3rd swing hit box advantage: -11
3rd swing starts as early as frame 11 of 2nd swing
3rd swing total: 36
3rd swing hits on frame 6
3rd swing shield hit lag: 6
3rd swing shield stun: 7
3rd swing advantage: -29

Dash Attack:
Total: 39
First hits on frame 9
Shield hit lag: 8
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -27

Dtilt:
Total: 22
First hits on frame 9
Shield hit lag: 8
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -10

Ftilt:
Total: 31
First hits on frame 10 (behind), 12 (front)
Shield hit lag (front): 8
Shield stun (front): 10
Advantage (front): -17

Utilt:
Total: 29
First hits on frame 8 (front), 11 (behind)
Shield hit lag (front): 8
Shield stun (front): 11
Advantage (front): -18
Shield hit lag (behind): 8
Shield stun (behind): 11
Advantage (behind): -15

Dsmash:
Total: 49
First hit hits on frame 9
First hit shield hit lag: 7
First hit shield stun: 9
First hit advantage: -38
Second hit hits on frame 17
Second hit shield hit lag: 8
Second hit shield stun: 11
Second hit advantage: -29

Fsmash:
1st swing total: 48
1st swing hits on frame 15
1st swing shield hit lag: 9
1st swing shield stun: 11
1st swing advantage: -31
1st swing linking to 2nd swing hit box advantage: -16
2nd swing starts as early as frame 21 of 1st swing
2nd swing total: 49
2nd swing hits on frame 12
2nd swing shield hit lag: 10
2nd swing shield stun: 14
2nd swing advantage: -33

Usmash:
Total: 37
First hits on frame 11 (strong) – at least 14 (weaker/back)
Strong hit shield hit lag: 11
Strong hit shield stun: 15
Strong hit advantage: -22
Weaker hit shield hit lag: 8
Weaker hit shield stun: 11
Weaker hit advantage: -20

Nair:
First hits on frame 6
Landing lag: 15
Hit lag: 8
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -12

Dair:
First hits on frame 12
Landing lag: 40

Fair:
First hits on frame 14
Landing lag: 18
Hit lag: 10
Shield stun: 14
Advantage: -14

Bair:
First hits on frame 6
Landing lag: 10
Hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -8

Uair:
First hits on frame 11
Landing lag: 21
Hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 14
Advantage: -16

Zair:
First hits on frame 11
Landing lag: 2
Hit lag: 6
Shield stun: 7
Advantage: -1

Neutral-B:
First hits on frame 18
Arrow Cancel: first hits frame 1 (upon landing)
Arrow Cancel Lag: 24 frames

Side-B:
First hits on frame 27

Up-B:
First hits on frame 11

Standing Grab:
Total: 84
First grabs frame 12

Dash Grab:
Total: 93
First grabs on frame 14

Pivot Grab:
Total: 93
First grabs on frame 16

Jump airborne on frame 6
SH airborne for 44 frames

Spot Dodge:
Total: 22
Invincible: 2 – 20

Roll Forward:
Total: 37
Invincible: 4 – 19

Roll Backward:
Total: 37
Invincible: 4 – 19

Air Dodge:
Total: 49
Invincible: 4 – 29

I might try to investigate the B-moves some more (particularly Up-B) later...if anyone has any questions, just ask and I'll try to address them.

On the topic of the "Advantage" numbers:

Let me explain this using Dtilt.

Dtilt:
Total: 22
First hits on frame 9
Shield hit lag: 8
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -10

Assume that you Dtilt your opponent's shield. The "shield hit lag" is the number of frames you will lag during while the attack hits your opponents shield. The "shield stun" is the number of frames your opponent will be "stuck" in the shield, unable to do anything.

In the case of Dtilt, the hitbox appears on frame 9, leaving 13 frames of "lag" for the move to finish. The shield hit lag is 8 frames, and the shield stun is 11 frames. The trade-off of shield hit lag and shield stun essentially reduces the 13 frames of lag by 3 frames (since 11 - 8 = 3). Thus, subtracting that 3 frame net gain from the 13 frames of lag on Dtilt yields 10 frames. This means that the opponent will be able to do any action out of shield 10 frames before Toon Link can do anything (while he completes the animation on Dtilt)...that's an "advantage" of -10.

Keep in mind that dropping a shield takes 7 frames (I think for all characters), but things like grab, Usmash, Up-B, and jumping can be done instantly out of shield.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Cool sauce, saves me the trouble of trying to do it with a DVD Recorder with questionable frame skip.
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
cool Sauce
...
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Ørion

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
858
Location
Probably in front of his Wii
It allows you to see how long attacks last, when they actually hit, how much lag they have afterwards, when you are vulnerable etc. and is useful for planning combos and knowing when certain attacks are unpunishable or difficult to be punished.

PS: toondiddy, I would make my sig smaller, im pretty sure the limit is 500 pixels wide.
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
If someone ever asks you how many total frames TL's Fsmash lasts, YOU'LL KNOW!!
 

Disfunkshunal

Manners Maketh Man
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
5,864
Location
Planet Bomber
NNID
Disfunkshunal
3DS FC
1848-1876-3249
It allows you to see how long attacks last, when they actually hit, how much lag they have afterwards, when you are vulnerable etc. and is useful for planning combos and knowing when certain attacks are unpunishable or difficult to be punished.

PS: toondiddy, I would make my sig smaller, im pretty sure the limit is 500 pixels wide.
ok thanks and my sig is 500 pixels wide
 

K 2

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
1,920
Location
Tennessee
That information looks incredibly useful and incredibly boring to obtain. What do "shield hit lag" and "shield stun", "advantage", and "hit lag" all mean?
 

Beagle007

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
86
Man this is a good list! I really helped me decide what moves to use in a jam.
 

MrPhox

Tamed Beast
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
203
Location
Boston, Ma
NNID
Mr.Phox
3DS FC
0318-7803-7610
wouldn't it be interesting if somebody created a program that calculated all these numbers for every character?

in a way that we would be able to compare possibilities through matching up frames of TL versus the frames of somebody else.



because unless people have a firm grasp and vivid memory of the numbers for everybody, they won't really be able to relate this information. It's out of context.

at which point, going into training mode and testing with a buddy would train possibilities and actual habit/technique to do so.

you would learn that these are all just numbers and their value is just a slight fraction of a move's quality.

who is truly prepared to make this information worth while?

can you even say the greatest toon link players even understand this?


it's great what you did though. But it shows that your strengths and interests may be more helping if you studied other things. it seems like you have a very scientific drive to investigate. Science is heavy numbers, but i think there isn't a numerical value you can put on the most important qualities of this game.

what you found would be good for creating a computer AI or something
 

ImpactAR

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
595
Location
South Carolina
Wow. Good data. Could you possibility find out how many frame it takes TL to throw his bombs? And how soon can he attack after throwing a bomb? I'm particularly interested in throwing the bomb upwards from the ground.
 

Rutger

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
3,889
Location
Orlando, Fl.
3DS FC
1676-3683-2689
The standing grab duration looks way off. Almost 100 frames? Can't be, and it is contradictory to the findings of this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207&highlight=throw

Sure that's not a typo, 3GOD?
No, 3GOD is correct.

I've been doing frame data research for Toon Link the past couple of days in order to have much more info.
Toon Link's standing Grab lasts 84 frames before he can shield again.

I don't know why that topic is lower but I'm confident in my data. I used the frame by frame code in game, I'm positive that nothing can be off by more then one frame. There is no way that it is 41 frames.
 
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