Counterpicking Made Peachy

A simple guide on stage counterpicking with Peach this is!

Simply highlight the character your fighting against and find out recommendations on what to fight on, and what to avoid. Check the second post, the Character Notes, for more in-depth stage information concerning every character.

Stages in red you should ban or stage strike.
Stages in blue you should counterpick.
Stages in italics are tentative counterpicks. Read the Character Notes.

Bowser
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Battlefield
Ban: Norfair

Captain Falcon
Counterpick: Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination, Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion
Ban: Battlefield, Brinstar, Distant Planet

Diddy Kong
Counterpick: Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Norfair
Ban: Final Destination

Donkey Kong
Counterpick: Yoshi's Island, Battlefield, Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Luigi's Mansion
Ban: Lylat Cruise, Jungle Japes, Brinstar

Falco
Counterpick: Rainbow Cruise, Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Brinstar
Ban: Jungle Japes, Final Destination

Fox
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon Stadium 1, Lylat Cruise
Ban: Final Destination, Halberd, Brinstar, Green Greens

Game & Watch
Counterpick: Green Greens, Yoshi's Island, Battlefield, Norfair
Ban: Rainbow Cruise

Ganondorf
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Rainbow Cruise, Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Yoshi's Island
Ban: Pirate Ship, Norfair, Brinstar, Smashville, Battlefield

Ice Climbers
Counterpick: Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza
Ban: Final Destination, Smashville, Pictochat

Ike
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon, Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Final Destination
Ban: Green Greens, Pirate Ship, Norfair, Halberd, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Battlefield

Jigglypuff
Counterpick: Green Greens, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Battlefield
Ban: Jungle Japes, Delfino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon, Brinstar, Norfair

King Dedede
Counterpick: Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Jungle Japes
Ban: Green Greens, Delfino Plaza, Final Destination, Halberd

Kirby
Counterpick: Lylat Cruise, Battlefield
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Green Greens, Brinstar

Link
Counterpick: Jungle Japes
Ban: Norfair

Lucario
Counterpick: Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Pictochat, Yoshi's Island, Final Destination

Lucas
Counterpick: Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Delfino Plaza, Castle Siege, Luigi's Mansion
Ban: Norfair, Brinstar, Final Destination

Luigi
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Castle Siege, Final Destination
Ban: Norfair, Brinstar, Frigate Orpheon, Battlefield

Mario
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Yoshi's Island, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Battlefield

Marth
Counterpick: Brinstar, Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Yoshi's Island, Final Destination
Ban: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Norfair, Halberd

Meta Knight
Counterpick: Green Greens, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Halberd, Norfair, Pictochat, Yoshi's Island
Ban: Luigi's Mansion, Rainbow Cruise, Battlefield, Final Destination

Ness
Counterpick: Pokemon Stadium 1, Jungle Japes, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Delfino Plaza
Ban: Norfair, Luigi's Mansion, Pirate Ship, Brinstar

Olimar
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Sky World, Delfino Plaza
Ban: Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Lylat Cruise

Pikachu
Counterpick: Luigi's Mansion, Brinstar, Pokemon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Final Destination

Pit
Counterpick: Pokemon Stadium 1, Yoshi's Island, Castle Siege, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Luigi's Mansion
Ban: Norfair, Lylat Cruise, Final Destination, Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, Halberd

Pokemon Trainer
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Norfair, Castle Siege

R.O.B.
Counterpick: Green Greens, Brinstar, Norfair, Battlefield
Ban: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise

Samus
Counterpick: Brinstar, Green Greens, Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion
Ban: Final Destination, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Halberd, Delphino Plaza, Pokemon Stadium 1

:shiek: Sheik
Counterpick: Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes
Ban: Battlefield, Halberd, Norfair

Snake
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Halberd, Luigi's Mansion, Smashville

Sonic
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Pictochat, Battlefield
Ban:

Toon Link
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Battlefield, Yoshi's Island
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Halberd, Green Greens, Delphino Plaza

Wario
Counterpick: Luigi's Mansion, Final Destination, Halberd, Pictochat, Pokemon Stadium 2, Yoshi's Island
Ban: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise

Wolf
Counterpick: Lylat Cruise, Jungle Japes
Ban: Smashville, Final Destination

Yoshi
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise
Ban: Delfino Plaza, Castle Siege, Norfair

Zelda
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon
Ban: Battlefield, Luigi's Mansion, Smashville, Castle Siege

Zamus
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Brinstar, Castle Siege
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1, Battlefield

Overall, be sure to counterpick personally and carefully - don't blindly follow a list. If you think you'll do well against Wario on Delfino, counterpick Delfino. Just keep this list in mind and hold it as a nice reference.

Here's the official list of legal stages: SBR Recommended Rule List v2.0: Brawl.

I also recommend watching this: The Art of Counterpicking Stages.

Individual Character Notes

Bowser
- When countering with Battlefield, be aware Bowser has as many options with the platforms as you do. He can attack through the platforms from below with uptilt and usmash, but he's very vulnerable when atop them himself. Be cautious.
- Avoid being above Bowser.
- Bowser does not have many options in recovering, stages that take advantage of this work well; such as Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise.

Captain Falcon
- Captain Falcon is vulnerable to camping and gimping - highlight campgrounds and fun edges when counterpicking.
- Concerning Jungle Japes and Luigi's Mansion:

t3h n00b said:

Jungle Japes and Luigi's Mansion are probably Falcon's best stages, or at least close. I know Peach is pretty light, but it takes insane amounts of damage to KO Falcon at the top blastline because of his weight and fall speed there. And he has knee shenanigans at Luigi's Mansion. Basically, on Japes, Falcon just has to DI everything up, and can abuse Raptor Boost for a relatively safe spike attempt, and the platform allows for decent amount of uair spamming. If they are your most comfortable stages, it's not like Falcon will **** you there or anything, but they probably help him more than they hurt Peach.

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Diddy Kong
- Diddy depends greatly on his ground game. Break it with warpy, moving, or platform covered stages.
- Diddy on Luigi's Mansion has the cool trick of unleashing a powerful GTFO UpB into the ceiling - be careful when inside.
- Be incredibly wary when choosing Norfair. AlphaZealot considers it one of Diddy's best stages - writing a guide highlighting it's potential devastating advantages.
- Ban Final Destination!

Donkey Kong
- While on Luigi's Mansion Peach can do some powerful ceiling combos, DK can also rack up damage just as easily. Choose only if confident.
- Due to his size, DK is very comboable, counterpick stages that favor tilts and turnips.
- DK has the cool trick of extending the super armor frames of his UpB by spinning off a ledge or stage-bump, such as on Jungle Japes, Norfair, and Brinstar. Video (1) (2).
- Edreeses writes on DK stage counterpicks:

EdreesesPieces said:

I like Luigi's against DK because I even like Luigi's against Metaknight. It's just my stage hands down. Peach's down air wrecks people here. If they tech your down air it sets you up for upsmash. Keep that in mind, especially against DK, because he won't tech your upsmash and it will likely kill him off the side because Upsmash is that strong.

Brinstar gives DK a slight advantage. I don't advise it. Like Praxis said, pick stages where you can run away and turnip with a lead, placing him in a very aggressive mode (which isn't good) every time he's approaching you. I just treat him like a DDD that can't chaingrab me.

If you see him down B, short hop Peach bomber is amazing for this.

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Falco
- Counter Falco by countering his lasers, odd terrain, obstacles, and moving stages all hamper him immensely.
- Praxis writes on stage cp'ing the bird:

Praxis said:

On neutrals, Falco's ability to camp you is incredibly frustrating. On your counterpick, however, you can pick stages that prevent him from doing this. Most Falco's will ban Rainbow Cruise, which is probably your best choice- he can't camp you on a stage that is constantly moving, and Peach has a mobility advantage here. Also, most Falco's will practice on this stage. A secondary counterpick is Brinstar, where the uneven terrain messes up his SH laser timing and the pillars provide laser cover and acid forces him to drop his camp pattern. The moment Falco loses his ability to camp you, you've got it.

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Fox
- Countering with high celings is a very effective way of dealing with Fox's main KO move, the usmash.
- As is messing with his recovery, anything with weird ledges would be a good choice.

Game & Watch
- Norfair as a CP depends on the GW's playstyle. While the multiple platforms allow you the positional advantage of being below him, GW can abuse the ledges. If he does, retaliate with turnips whenever the lava forces him off.
- Counterpicking GW is all about positional advantages - mainly below him. Using Green Green's, Battlefield's, and Yoshi's Island's platforms for your benefit, turnips and your tilts can win you the game.

Ganondorf
- With one of the worst recoveries of the game, counterpicking odd ledges and stages such as Jungle Japes would help in gimping.
- Keep Jesuswalking (floating atop water) in mind. Baiting a spike and fairing a Ganondorf into the bow Pirate Ship is good for surprises.

Ice Climbers
- A VERY large part of the IC's game is chaingrabs. Avoid large flat spaces in favor of chainbreaking warpy terrain and moving stages.

Ike
- With an incredibly linear recovery, stages such as Jungle Japes and Lylat can seriously help out with gimps.
- Ike is known as a powerhouse, avoid small stages like the plague and choose open, DI-friendly spaces.
- Hide under platforms! For example, on Yoshi's Island, the massive platform hinders his aerial approaches. Hide hide.

Jigglypuff
- Jigglypuff weighs less than a piece of paper. Ban big spaces and choose teeny ones.
- Jiggs wants more space and less platforms - go for stages like Lylat and Battlefield.
- On Jungle Japes, NEVER get grabbed on the left edge of the middle platform - it's a stage spike on her bthrow. You can DI, or tech it, but just avoid it to be safe. MrEh further explains with his chart in his thread.

King Dedede
- Platform structured stages severely disrupt chaingrab strategies.
- Jungle Japes, while good for interrupting chaingrabs, has close sides that Dedede may use to his advantage.

Kirby
- Peach can abuse platforms more effectively than Kirby.
- Kirby has strong horizontal KO capabilities - close sides might be a bad idea.
- There's a weird rock-ledge glitch on Pictochat: Video.

Link
- Counterpick against Link's recovery with stages like Jungle Japes and avoid camp grounds such as Norfair.

Lucario
- Lucario isn't very adept at killing vertically. Have no fear of close blastzones!
- Ban the big ceilings and anything with wall-clingable areas - two less advantages for the Egyptian looking thing.

Lucas
- You can chaingrab Lucas; take advantage of this by counterpicking walls and walkoffs.
- Luigi's Mansion is a counterpick you're going to have to be very careful with. Lucas does well when his opponents aerials are constricted - but due to her float, this isn't much of an issue for Peach.
- His attack's hitboxes stay out much longer when hitting objects, such as the pillars on Luigi's, tentacles on Brinstar, etc. Be aware and avoid stupidly running into them.
- While dangerous, Lucas can absorb the lasers on Corneria.

Luigi
- Luigi does incredibly well with vertical KOs. Avoid short ceilings - in favor or tall ones.
- Ask yourself: ''Is it a Metroid stage?" If yes, BAN IT.
- Stages limiting Luigi's aerial movement, and favoring your tilts also help.

Mario
- Well, his recovery isn't the most amazing. Stages like Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise would serve you well.
- High ceilings would be ideal too - counteract the usmash he oh-so-loves.

Marth
- Marth does have an advantage with platforms. Keep them to a minimum.

Meta Knight
- Choose Green Greens.
- Learning to tech is the key to surviving the dsmash on Greens and Yoshi's Island Melee.
- Keep under platforms. Follow the one on Smashville, the middle ones on Halberd and Yoshi's, etc. It KILLS aerial approaches.

Ness
- You can chaingrab Ness; abuse this by counterpicking walls and walkoffs.
- Be aware that PK Fire can be used on stage objects, such as the pillars on Luigi's Mansion, to create a damaging fire wall.
- While risky, Ness is also capable of absorbing the lasers on Corneria.
- Using his PK Thunder and dair spike, Ness has the option of water camping on Pirate Ship. Retaliate, and avoid spikes, by Jesuswalking.

Olimar
- Our best matchup, their worst, and our best stage, on their worst. Peach. Olimar. Jungle Japes. ****.
- Delfino Plaza, though with hazerdous water for Oli, can be a good stage for experienced users.
- When counterpicking Skyworld, be sure to destroy the edges to gimp him without having to hog.
- The Olimars have discovered a new way to utilize the falling blocks on Rainbow Cruise. If one of their Pikmin grabs you atop them, you'll fall to your death along with the block. Example at 3:45: Video.

Pikachu
- Rainbow Cruise may have limited space to fully utilize some of Pikachu's ATs, but with a very short ceiling, early Thunder KOs are a threat.
- Remove the hamper of wide open stages - fight Pikachu in closer, more active quarters.

Pit
- Platforms are typically in Pit's favor. Avoid them and choose the more obstacle ridden, more warpy stages.
- Always keep in mind that stages Pit can't fly under gives you a better chance of gimping him.

Pokemon Trainer
- Counterpicking a stage against three characters is tricky. Thankfully they share similar traits.
- They all KO well vertically. Choose large ceilings.
- All their recoveries are rather poor - odd ledges are in your favor.
- Ivysaur will be the easiest to stage counter, ban multiple ledges and walkoffs.

R.O.B.
- Counterpick ROB against his projectiles and fight in close.
- Peach can KO easier than ROB can KO - pick small boundaries.
- Lava stages like Brinstar and Norfair will steal his Gyro and have it bounce atop the magma.

Samus
- On Luigi's Mansion Samus is able to capitalize off a missed ground tech into a jab lock. Tech baby!
- Avoid camp grounds like no other. Fight in close, tight areas.
- Be wary of water, Samus likes her water spikes.

Sheik
- Sheiks main kill move is her upsmash. Avoid short ceilings and counterpick high ones.

Snake
- Less platforms means less "minegamez", minimize them as much as possible.
- His character board fails.
- A note on Rainbow Cruise:

Praxis said:

I once had a Snake, though, that actually counterpicked Rainbow Cruise on me and beat me there (I won the other two rounds, haha). He placed explosives on platforms that I'd have to cross to move with the stage, forcing my recovery to go around it and in to his attacks, and he'd position himself near the sides or top so he could KO me really easy with a quick tilt.

Click to expand...

Sonic
- Sonic is a very movement based character, restrict this with stages such as Picotchat and Luigi's Mansion.
- His smashes and throws also KO well vertically. Counterpick high ceilings, avoiding short ones.

Toon Link
- Close side blastzones? No problem. The second strike of Toon Link's fsmash can't hit you. It's the upsmash that needs to be feared. Counterpick high ceilings.
- Jungle Japes has good and bad aspects. On the good side, the water will gimp TLink's recovery and the high ceiling will save you from usmash KOs. On the bad side, campy Toon Links will be difficult to approach due to the platform structure and his projectiles.

Wario
- You have a grab release -> usmash on Wario, best used in the ~100% range. Keep it usable on platform-less stage like Final D, Pictochat, and even Luigi's when the house is destroyed.
- Wario will die when using a charged fart on Halberd, Pictochat, and PS2... for some reason.
- Wario does best on platforms, and worst without them - pick blank, flat stages.

Wolf
- Wolf is the quintessential space animal when counterpicking - avoid camp grounds and go for the odd ledges.

Yoshi
- You want a high ceiling since Yoshi is good at vertical kills; avoid short ceilings and camp grounds.

Zelda
- Counterpick high ceilings and avoid short ones, that usmash is not fun to be caught in.
- Also keep away from platform littered stages, they give her plenty launching points for powerful Lightning Kicks. Counterpick against her feeble recovery.
- Always keep in mind that Zelda can change into Sheik and vice-versa, possibly negating the effects of your counterpick. Keep both characters in mind.

Zero Suit Samus
- Brinstar and Distant Plant give you a 50% chance of having Zamus lose at least two pieces. More info here.

way to go meno! lol rhyme. i must say, peach just has so much data and useful information. Its definatly not like that at the bowser boards(my "for fun" char)... Another useful thread to add to the growing amount of valuable content.

I disagree with some of the bans (Falco is definitely beatable on Japes, but a campy one will give you more trouble on, say, FD. Regardless of his movement options on Japes, you have an easier time approaching yourself and he can't kill you off the top there...) but I'll clarify this more in the future.

Alot of it is personal preference though.

I love counterpicking and discussing it, so this should be a fun topic.

And personally, I'd never ban Lylat Cruise. Peach does amazing there and the characters that like the stage (Rob, Pit) have better places to take you. (Weegee's, FD).

Oh, and Zamus likes Brinstar. Ban Corneria for Pika and Ness.

Dang, I was going to make this thread. And I was going to make it a Weekly Peach CounterPick Discussion xD

I was going to make this thread too! lol... Good stuff Meno, nice layout! :D

Ya I like this thread, Also you should put what stage to pick . Not just the one best to ban. Just and idea.

I think you should ban rainbow cruise against metaknight, it feels worse than luigi's. Peach can do a lot to him on luigi's as well. but metanight can punish that horrible 2nd jump of peach's on rainbow way too much.

Do you mind if I use this format for the Lucario boards, giving proper credit to you?

It's set up so deliciously.

I think Japes is a good Snake CP, as it makes it harder for him to achieve utilt kills, and the side platforms force him to jump more, and the way the platforms are arranged and the water forces him to activate his recovery earlier and you can jump out and hit him as he rises.

Also, Rainbow Cruise is the ultimate Falco counterpick. I was thinking of Pirate Ship being a Falco counterpick as well- the slops would hurt his laser camp, and the waterfloat will mean that you get a free kill if he misses a spike and hits the water. But I haven't tested it.

BR3N7 said:

Ya I like this thread, Also you should put what stage to pick . Not just the one best to ban. Just and idea.

Click to expand...

It's there in blue - most of the slots are currently empty though.

Timbers said:

Do you mind if I use this format for the Lucario boards, giving proper credit to you?

It's set up so deliciously.

Click to expand...

Whaaa...? The Lucario boards wanna copypaste the Peach boards?
Oh god, it's like MetaKnight asking Captain Falcon for fighting tips.

Yes yes, feel free too.

I've also updated with a "Weekly discussion" thing.
It's optional, and it'll last anywhere between 2 days and a week - ish.
I think it's more effective that way, and plus it's more fun and random.

I just wanted the format to this, not the actual stage picks you guys use.

I'm too lazy to colorcode it myself.

I'll sit out the Mansion counterpicks. It's banned in WA and I hate it, so I've never used it.

Praxis said:

I'll sit out the Mansion counterpicks. It's banned in WA and I hate it, so I've never used it.

Click to expand...

I absolutely hate Luigi's Mansion. I can't seem to get a grasp for it with peach, so I just go back to Mrs Marth whenever LM is in play. Does anyone have any tips for playing with peach on Luigi's Mansion?

Stay on the bottom floor and DI towards the ceilings, then just play as usual. Don't get baited near the pillars, smashes stay out longer when they hit them (Lucas' dsmash goes for like 2 minutes, for reals).

Do you think it is better to discuss one stage a week, or one character a week? I think we might be able to develop a good set of counterpicks by tackling the characters instead of the stages, but I digress.

Also, I think Green Greens is a good Samus counterpick (though not GREAT, just good). The problem with Samus is approaching her with all of the projectiles, and having those handy piles of blocks makes it easy to go UP and come down right next to her. Samus has trouble killing (especially off the top), so stay in the middle as much as possible and watch out for her utilt as a kill move. The confined spaces should help somewhat.

Samus has to continually back up, so she will line herself up for kills, while you can live longer while camping in the middle. It's not like the stage wrecks her though- if you play the stage wrong, she can kill you off the sides pretty quick, so learn the stage well.

Also, I'd put Greens as a G&W counterpick (gives her a slight advantage by negating his good recovery due to the short sides- he dies faster than usual because he's so light. And you can force him to chase you and you have projectiles. But play the stage wrong and he can kill you fast too.), and DEFINITELY as a ROB counterpick. Peach kills him soooo easily- one 0-60% combo, do a little more damage then usmash kills at 80-90% with the short ceiling, so does Fair with the short sides if you're near them. He has to rush the recovery since the walls are so short and you can toss turnips at him, which lets you hit him more often while he's coming back.

Green Greens > G&W >>>>>> ROB

I have a question regarding Hanenbow. Will hitting the leafs stale your moves?

If that's the case, Dsmash spam FTW!

Hanenbow = Bad for Peach. Peach will have a hard time recovering with her parasol when the leaves are hit by them. it.

If you want to use my stages thread Meno then please do. Or if you like, I could quote the advise given from the thread.

Luigi's Mansion...don't pick this vs MK from what I've heard. He can bounce around the place like nobodies business. Learn to tech or be destroyed

PrepareYourself said:

Hanenbow = Bad for Peach. Peach will have a hard time recovering with her parasol when the leaves are hit by them.

Click to expand...

I know, that's why they could counterpick it against you if you don't ban it.

So...anyone can answer my question?

Dekuu said:

I have a question regarding Hanenbow. Will hitting the leafs stale your moves?

If that's the case, Dsmash spam FTW!

Click to expand...

I believe so.

Praxis said:

Do you think it is better to discuss one stage a week, or one character a week? I think we might be able to develop a good set of counterpicks by tackling the characters instead of the stages, but I digress.

Click to expand...

I was thinking about that, but it sounded a bit like the weekly matchup - where people SHOULD be discussing counterpicks, but they aren't.

I think I'll switch to characters then.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:

If you want to use my stages thread Meno then please do. Or if you like, I could quote the advise given from the thread.

Click to expand...

We can always make the info consensual.
But, yeah, I think characters would work easier...

Any recommendations on who we should discuss first?

We could just follow the same order as the Weekly Character discussion to make it easy :D

Praxis said:

We could just follow the same order as the Weekly Character discussion to make it easy :D

Click to expand...

Done.

Okay, so Kirby...
- light
- great horizontal KO ability
- good recovery
- good aerial game

I would say ban Pictochat, along with Luigi's Mansion due to the close sides, and the high ceiling helps him more than us.

For counterpick...
Something with a relatively low ceiling to kill him early, but far sides for better recovery on our side.

Greetings! I would say battlefield is a great stage against kirby. I have yet to successfully beat any good peach players when they counterpick that stage. The platforms are a big pain as it blocks off Kirby's good air game. Also Lylat Cruise gives me problems as well. Using Peach's u-air while kirby is on a platform as well as using her d-air while Peach is on a platform has gave me the biggest trouble.

Lylat works well. He can't really abuse the platforms like you can, and the tilt makes him easier to hit at times. If he lands on the side platforms its a free usmash.

Is Green Greens a bad stage against Kirby? His powerful horizontal KO moves and the blastzones that are at the sides aren't a good combination.

Oh haha we're going off the CURRENT character of the week? :D Cool, but I'd suggest after this week we go back and cover some of the previous matchups the other thread did (Marth, Falco, etc).

Sadly, I have little Kirby experience. Green Greens is iffy. I think the fact that it removes Kirby's recovery advantage and leaves him light and easily killable is advantageous, but the fact that he kills SOOO well horizontally means you might get ***** easily.

I'm going to go with Lylat on this one.

Same reasons as someone stated above.

I'd say DON'T pick Green Greens or Rainbow Cruise against Kirby.

Be aware though, that Kirby doesn't really have any stages that give him a huge disadvantage, so pick whatever is good for Peach, or you personally.

Alrighty, updated with random-time-interval with Snake. You people have a problem with him don't you?

I keep hearing about how Rainbow Cruise is terrible for him. Vrai or Faux?

Jungle Japes totally negates his Utilt kills, and his recovery out of water totally sucks. He can't mortar slide so easily in here.

I think Japes is a good stage- it negates his utilt (though, it removes your ability to kill him fast with usmash, but he lands utilt more often so overall it's probably better), and forces his recovery (he DOESN'T want to hit the water, but he can't recover high from a distance like he normally does, so you get free shots when he rushes it).

However, it CAN assist in his camp game (DSF didn't seem to do much worse against me there), so only pick the stage if you're comfortable with it. But I would consider it a counterpick.

Personally I like anything without platforms against Snake. No platforms for him to leave his mine and it lets you approach in so many more ways. Love Final D especially.

So what do we ban? The Snake boards are pile of phail, as investigation dugg up nothing besides several match up threads.

Where should we avoid? AND WHAT ABOUT RAINBOW CRUISE???

Avoid Luigi's Mansion and Halberd's lowwww ceiling. Rainbow cruise and delfino are both good against snake as well, anything that keeps him moving.

MenoUnderwater said:

So what do we ban? The Snake boards are pile of phail, as investigation dugg up nothing besides several match up threads.

Where should we avoid? AND WHAT ABOUT RAINBOW CRUISE???

Click to expand...

Rainbow cruise is a maybe. All the Snakes in WA fail there- it eliminates their traps and makes it harder to grenade camp.

I once had a Snake, though, that actually counterpicked Rainbow Cruise on me and beat me there (I won the other two rounds, haha). He placed explosives on platforms that I'd have to cross to move with the stage, forcing my recovery to go around it and in to his attacks, and he'd position himself near the sides or top so he could KO me really easy with a quick tilt.

Avoid Halberd at all costs.

Dunno about Luigi's as it is banned in WA.

i got chaingrabbed by a d3 on delfino's wall(at one of the stops) for 200 damage!!

TigerWoods said:

i got chaingrabbed by a d3 on delfino's wall(at one of the stops) for 200 damage!!

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Don't take him there (or ban it), that stage has walk-offs too >_>

Alrighty, I think we have a nice chunk of info on Snake.

Unto Olimar for awhile.

Olimar boards say to ban Luigi's and Norfair, and counter with Rainbow Cruise and maybe Jungle Japes?