The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

SheerMadness · Jan 4, 2009

Why isn't Kirby using stone on Ike's up b in those vids?

Kirby can also suck Ike up and walk off the stage since his recovery is pritty gimpable.

Rykoshet · Jan 4, 2009

SheerMadness said:
Why isn't Kirby using stone on Ike's up b in those vids?

Number of times I aethered for the purposes of recovering in match 1: 4 times, 3 times he wasn't in position to use stone and the 4th time I just got flat out edgehogged so...

Number of times I aethered for the purposes of recovering in match 2: 4 times, I got hogged and lost a stock the first time, I got back aired out of aether and almost gimped the 2nd and 3rd time and the 4th time was lucky positioning/timing since he was on the ledge.

Match 3: He had plenty of opportunities to do it but chose not to, granted.

I'd go through 4 and 5, but the bottom line is that stone pops ike up, which is the last place you want to send ike if your goal is to kill him...

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 4, 2009

Does Kirby's swallow work like grabs? If so unless the Ike is at the side of the stage kirby won't have time to walk off and spit him out to gimp him. Plus If the Ike breaks out off the stage you can foot stool kirby and make it back.

Depending on how many jumps kirby has he may or may not have to use his up B but if he does say hi to Dtilt.

MK26 · Jan 4, 2009

Arturito_Burrito said:
Does Kirby's swallow work like grabs? If so unless the Ike is at the side of the stage kirby won't have time to walk off and spit him out to gimp him. Plus If the Ike breaks out off the stage you can foot stool kirby and make it back.

Depending on how many jumps kirby has he may or may not have to use his up B but if he does say hi to Dtilt.

1) Yes it does.
2) Ike falls faster than Kirby. If anything, it'll be Kirby footstooling Ike
3) The majority of successful Kirbycides happen when Kirby is already falling offstage, not when he sucks you up onstage and falls off with you in his mouth.

Percon · Jan 4, 2009

This match isn't as bad as everyone thinks... Ike is a decent character.

I think if Ike plays a good zoning game then he can win... but Kirby has the advantage in everything aside from range and killing power.

A good Kirby SHOULD be able to gimp Ike if he goes far enough horizontally...

More stuff later, but for now I think this is 60:40 Kirby

Kinzer · Jan 4, 2009

Don't forget weight, Ike defenitely has the weight.

feardragon64 · Jan 5, 2009

I'm still learning the intricacies of kirby but here goes my train of thought on this.

Ike can outspace kirby with Fair to IASA frame whatever, and still stay safe. Not only that but, obviously, Ike can get kills on kirby pretty fast. That's the bad news. The good news is Kirby basically wins in almost every other respect. It's been said before that a single hit can easily lead to 50% or more in this match-up. Get in and STAY in. The main reason why you shouldn't be in close pressuring Ike(watch out for that jab though) is if you've controlled the stage well enough that he's essentially off of it. Other things to look out for are super armor frames on aether. Basically, if he's managed to space himself out enough to start up an aether, make sure to tip your attacks so as not to get hit after the super armor frames from it. You know your character. Kirby is a puffball and that attack will devastate him. After kirby gets in on Ike, Ike basically has his jab to try and get him out. That's it.

65:35 Kirby imo.

I don't think it was mentioned but if by some chance you run into a situation where the Ike is basically camping with a quickdraw where he will end up at the edge, just jump right next to the edge and start suctioning and when Ike releases he'll go skyrocketing off the stage with no hope of recovery. Gimicky? Yes. But if they commit to it for some reason it's a stock for you no?

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 5, 2009

MK26 said:
1) Yes it does.
2) Ike falls faster than Kirby. If anything, it'll be Kirby footstooling Ike
3) The majority of successful Kirbycides happen when Kirby is already falling offstage, not when he sucks you up onstage and falls off with you in his mouth.

No because when you break out of kirby's mouth you come out above kirby which is where you footstool him.

This really is a suicide because theres a good chance kirby will have to use his up B if he gets foot stooled and Ike can Fsmash kirby out of his Up B.

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 5, 2009

Ike has time to get back on stage and start up a fsmash before kirby even grabs the ledge?

and why would someone use his upB to go above the stage when u can just sweet spot it and grab the ledge?

A player must be dumb to use final cutter that close and get hit with a Fsmash

fromundaman · Jan 5, 2009

Meh, most of this match seems to have been covered in detail already. My biggest problem with this matchup is predicting which aerial will be used when I move in to attack (If Fair, I can shield and grab before you can get another move out, whereas if it's a Nair, well, I don't want to get so close.), or for that matter, what will be used period.

A single mistake on Kirby's part can lead to a whole lot of pain. Yeah, we have to work to get inside the sword, but we also have to make sure we can stay inside (jabs, Nairs, throws, and occasionally even Utilts can make this difficult.).

On the plus side, comboing Ike isn't all that complicated, and Kirby destroys Ike offstage. Aether's really not all that hard to counter as long as you know when the SA wears off. Stone effectively counters it, and aerial hammer and Inhale (I think... I might be wrong about the inhale.) can both work too, though the spacing/timing can be hard to get down. Otherwise, jump behind the sword if you can and just Bair him. However, if you don't know for sure that you can intercept Aether, don't try it: Kirbycides are painful, and even if it doesn't kill you, who wants to get hit anyway?

I would always spit Ike, since you can really screw with him with inhale. Shoot him under the stage and he's screwed. Jump offstage with him and shoot him, and he's usually screwed as well, especially since he'll be busy mashing buttons to avoid a Kirbycide. Realistically speaking though, inhale's not a move you'll use much in this matchup.

...I know I had more to say, but my mind kind of blanked out, so maybe I'll return later.

I'd say this match is in Kirby's favor, but not too much. 60-40 at the very most, and more likely 55-45.

Edit: Oh, and for CP stages, I've found Lylat works well against Ike, as does Japes, Frigate, and to a certain extent, BF and Norfair.

MK26 · Jan 5, 2009

Arturito_Burrito said:
No because when you break out of kirby's mouth you come out above kirby which is where you footstool him.

This really is a suicide because theres a good chance kirby will have to use his up B if he gets foot stooled and Ike can Fsmash kirby out of his Up B.

Ok, now were just getting into theorycraft which, as we all know, goes nowhere fast...if this, then that, and then the other thing
If Ike fails to footstool...
If Ike doesnt break out in time...

And anyways, the two characters regain control at the same time

I sorta like fear's synopsis of the matchup, but he seems to be underestimating Ikes a bit. Anything above 60-40 is unreasonable, but 55-45 may be a bit optimistic for Ikes.

And DI outward>offensive Aether

feardragon64 · Jan 5, 2009

The reason why I call 65:35 is because Kirby only has to get in 5 or 6 times and stick with him to win this match most of the time. This is assuming high level play:

Assuming Kirby gets in, and starts doing what he does best with his aggressive combo chains and pressuring, Ike will be in the air a majority of the time. Ike's fastest aerial(nair) comes out on frame 15. After you factor in hitstun from thinks like Kirby's utilt, uair, first two hits of fair, etc. that's not nearly enough time to avoid the bair to the face. So basically, point one: Ike is screwed against a smart and pressuring kirby.

Now for the ground. Ike has ONE fast move to use. That is jab. Ike's jab comes out frame 3, same as Kirby's. Kirby's utilt also comes out on frame 4, only one frame later. Ike will be highly pressured and will suffer from hitstun, etc. etc. Not only that but he won't be on the ground for a very long time if a competent kirby is pressuring him. Factoring in human reaction time, say 14 or 15 frames, that's around 18 or 19 frames where he can try and jab to get out of Kirby's barrage of attacks. The kirby player is most likely utilizing well practiced attack patterns and doesn't rely on reaction time nearly as much, so let's say the kirby player utilizes half the time in terms of reaction, 7 or 8 frames. Obviously, kirby player gets to the punch first(or the kick in case of utilt).

After that ALL kirby has to do get Ike to the edge and bair his face off. After that, proceed to gimp. Plain and simple. I give this match-up 65:35 rather than 60:40 not because I think Ike can't keep Kirby out(which is his only real viable option), but more just that he can't afford in the least to let kirby get in.

Anyways, just thought I'd clarify that.

fromundaman · Jan 5, 2009

Fear, while I agree with some of what is there (though I haven't really studied the frame data at all), I want to add a few things:

-that only works at earlier percentages, at later percentages (like mid/high), Ike will have more time to react, and what I have noticed happens to me most often at that time (due in part to my bro's playstyle) is that when I go to Bair, I'll hit him as his SAs from eruption kick in and I'll go flying too, or I'll get hit by a Nair or something.

The other point is that Ike players KNOW they have to keep Kirby at bay, and most of their efforts shall be spent doing just that. Also, getting hit by Ike's Utilt can start a very bad chain of events for Kirby, as being above Ike tends to be bad.
Also, a lot of Ike's moves provide shield knockback (or whatever that's called, I forget the name...), which makes getting in even harder.

So basically, yeah, while you're right, once we get in, we can combo him to death, getting in is the tough part, and if we mess up, well, Ike hurts. Oh, and don't rolldodge against Ike. His smashes hurt...

Wyvern-x · Jan 5, 2009

Bair is Ike's fastest aerial coming out on frame 7 fear.

A1lion835 · Jan 5, 2009

It's widely believed that Ike's up-b super armor ends when he grabs the sword, but I've baired him out of it a little less than halfway up. Just to clarify. On another note, I had a monstrous wall of text before, but lost it, and I'm too lazy to re-write it.

Kinzer · Jan 5, 2009

Would y'all settle for something like 57:43 Kirby's favor now...? If 55-45 is optimistic (I think it's more realistic), and 60:40 is a bit much, there is no other median than that.

Anything above 60-40, and y'all probably never fought a half-decent Ike... granted, not a lot of people play him, and just about every board thinks they soft-hard counter Ike for whatever reason... but yeah... I like 57:43, stop being babies and make change happen. Y'all can be rebels.

cba · Jan 5, 2009

Has any1 heard of Kaio Ken Kirby?

Ussi · Jan 5, 2009

Kirby's ridiculous fsmash makes this match up 60-40 for him. ~_~ Ike is not hard to PS

feardragon64 · Jan 5, 2009

fromundaman said:
Fear, while I agree with some of what is there (though I haven't really studied the frame data at all), I want to add a few things:

-that only works at earlier percentages, at later percentages (like mid/high), Ike will have more time to react, and what I have noticed happens to me most often at that time (due in part to my bro's playstyle) is that when I go to Bair, I'll hit him as his SAs from eruption kick in and I'll go flying too, or I'll get hit by a Nair or something.

The other point is that Ike players KNOW they have to keep Kirby at bay, and most of their efforts shall be spent doing just that. Also, getting hit by Ike's Utilt can start a very bad chain of events for Kirby, as being above Ike tends to be bad.
Also, a lot of Ike's moves provide shield knockback (or whatever that's called, I forget the name...), which makes getting in even harder.

So basically, yeah, while you're right, once we get in, we can combo him to death, getting in is the tough part, and if we mess up, well, Ike hurts. Oh, and don't rolldodge against Ike. His smashes hurt...

Part of my point is that you shouldn't need to get Ike to high percents. Basically I'm saying as part of strategy you should be doing everything you can to get Ike off the stage. But I see what you're saying. The longer the fight prolongs the harder it becomes. As for utilt...I don't see the problem since Kirby has multiple jumps, his down+b, and I think enough aerial mobility to outmaneuver Ike, landing shouldn't be too hard =\.

But agreed, Ike hurts when you mess up and it can be a bit annoying to get in. Also Ike can camp fairs and jabs so the big question is how do you get in? I think that's what we should be discussing.

And my bad about saying Nair is his fastest aerial. I should have said his fastest option to attack you during Kirby's pressure attacks(Since he'll be in the air facing you).

Kinzer said:
Anything above 60-40, and y'all probably never fought a half-decent Ike... granted, not a lot of people play him, and just about every board thinks they soft-hard counter Ike for whatever reason... but yeah... I like 57:43, stop being babies and make change happen. Y'all can be rebels.

Meh, I guess 65:35 is over shooting it. I Can live with 60:40 since kirbs is light and Ike has big friggin sword.

So....how does everyone propose is a viable way to get in close to Ike assuming he spaces properly. If he's camping fairs you can't perfect shield and run in to punish since his landing has IASA frames which he can jab you with. He outranges aerial approaches.....so what's the plan for that?

Asdioh · Jan 5, 2009

cba said:
Has any1 heard of Kaio Ken Kirby?

Yes, he is (or was) the best wifi Kirby I've ever played.

feardragon64 said:
So....how does everyone propose is a viable way to get in close to Ike assuming he spaces properly. If he's camping fairs you can't perfect shield and run in to punish since his landing has IASA frames which he can jab you with. He outranges aerial approaches.....so what's the plan for that?

Stay at a distance and do some "Hiii!" camping until he gets pissed off and decides to approach YOU.

Kinzer · Jan 5, 2009

I second Sonic, by the time you decide to stop spamming "HAI!", the clock will have run out... hopefully you with more damage.

But seriously, it's your guys' call on what the ratio is, we've told you everything by this point.

Hence · Jan 7, 2009

Dear Kirby Users,

Insight into the Kirby:ZSS match-up would be appreciated.
If you scroll down to reply eight, I go into further detail about my complications with Kirby.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214627

fromundaman · Jan 7, 2009

feardragon64 said:
Part of my point is that you shouldn't need to get Ike to high percents. Basically I'm saying as part of strategy you should be doing everything you can to get Ike off the stage. But I see what you're saying. The longer the fight prolongs the harder it becomes. As for utilt...I don't see the problem since Kirby has multiple jumps, his down+b, and I think enough aerial mobility to outmaneuver Ike, landing shouldn't be too hard =\.

Well, that's not really what I was thinking of in regards to Utilt. I personally find it tends to work after a jab cancel or OoS. It's really just something you use to get Kirby in the air above you, as Ike can make landing somewhat difficult (though it still shouldn't be that big of an issue) and has a Uair that, in that position, can be hard for Kirby to punish.

Asdioh · Jan 7, 2009

I think it's time to move on to a new character >_>

I think everyone can be happy with a 57.5:42.5 in Kirby's favor for the Ike matchup.

§leepy God · Jan 7, 2009

I guess there's really nothing to debate about after a few day's past, Kirby has the upper hand in the battle with Ike, maybe not really on stage's like Pirate Ship, Norfair, Yoshi's Island etc, but you know what I mean.

MK26 · Jan 7, 2009

Asdioh said:
I think it's time to move on to a new character >_>

I think everyone can be happy with a 57.5:42.5 in Kirby's favor for the Ike matchup.

Ive looked back on everything, and I've decided on 60-40. I'm not going to give reasons, they've already been stated over about 10 times each throughout the thread.

Sarcasm, but not really: And if a Kirby player ever has any doubts about Kirby's abilities, just picture Kirby F-smashing the opponent for the kill. It's ******* therapeutic, man. I had doubts. I pictured Kirby F-smashing Ike. The doubts left.

But seriously, 60-40 is about right. WHen I get the writeup, we can reopen the discussion. But for now, on to the next character. Our only other disagreement is Fox, so we'll do him next. Sorry, MK lovers, we'll do the caped crusader next week.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 7, 2009

HEHEHEHE fox, i would give anything to play a fox in tourney, just once :D the rapage would have to be banned from the internet, lol JK but seriously Kirby has a fair advantage against Fox. With fox's less than ample priority when recovering against Kirb's Dair its hard to recover with fox. not to mention we can combo him many many different ways to 50 - 60 damage. Fox also has some strong suits in terms of finishing with his U-smash, also building damage is not that difficult for a smart fox player, his Dair is a great combo starter. also his lasers do rack up a substantial amount of damage each stock.

My opinion 65-45 in Kirby's favor. If their are more convincing arguements for Kirby then i will change to 70-30 but the worst possible matchup ranking for kirby could 65-45. no lower than that.

feardragon64 · Jan 7, 2009

Alright. I am actually not a fox expert or anything but basically, monopolize on Fox's weaknesses: his approach and his range. Kirby's lovely feet hitboxes outrange everything so playing a defensive game will work wonders. For those who want to even hint that you have to approach because fox has his blaster: 1) Duck. 2) If you're seriously that worried about it, monopolize on your copy ability, even though it's probably much more useful for spit-->edgeguarding.

Anyways, kirby has an obvious advantage in this match-up. I'm not going to waste too much time discussing why. I find it so much more useful to discuss the how. Basically things to look out for.

Funny enough(after discussing the whole Ike match-up), after you get past low percents you distance yourself from fox and space with bair, fair, ftilt, etc. Hold your shield up when he attempts to drill approach you until it ends for sure. Get used to learning when you can shield grab him out of it. Lastly, I said before I don't have much fox experience but I think you should just DI up to get out of his utilt chains asap. As SOON as you get out of them jump air dodge and space yourself. Basically, reset the positioning. That's my opinion anyways.

So, match-up numbers? 65:35 sound fair? I don't think kirby has anything ridiculously easy to exploit to make this 70:30 like a 0 to death combo or anything but it's a pretty good match-up for kirby.

Oh and don't forget to laugh at all the johns the fox player makes when you own them because he weighs so much you almost ALWAYS get like 3 utilts off on him. lmao

Asdioh · Jan 8, 2009

I agree with 65-35 Kirby's favor, but don't get too cocky, ~~Star Fox~~ Kirby.

Fox will destroy you if you let your guard down. Don't fall for Shinestall...don't get daired, don't get upsmashed. That's all I can think of.

Try a somersault!

Don't mess up that Arwing!

Man I love Star Fox 64 so much that I really should play a Star Fox character. Out of all the Star Fox characters in this game, I'm thinking of picking up Fox, Falco, or Wolf. I've narrowed it down to those three.

^ that was a joke, but seriously, I kind of like Fox's playstyle more than the others...Falco's chaingrab and laser spam turn me off, and my experience with gay Wolf players on wifi is a turnoff too. I like Fox though, he takes skill to be good with.

NinjaFoxX · Jan 8, 2009

hmm, i have quite the data on this one.

i call 60:40 kirby

first theres kirby's d-throw CG(sometimes combined with an u-air) racks up 25-35%, just teching and good DI will keep the damage down.

i find dair easily punishable with fox's fair or nair.

without copying fox kirby lacks a good projectile which forces him to approach.

kirbys fair is his spacing tool.not sure what to say on this one.

recovering kirbys know their foward-b's well and up-b is about as gimpable as ikes not including the pseudo-projectile that comes out,on stage it can be shined however.

theres more, but i want you guys to pick at what ive said so far(lots of kirbys in vegassmash, so i gotta know this one ;P)

Asdioh · Jan 8, 2009

o_o

mc-killa said:
first theres kirby's d-throw CG(sometimes combined with an u-air) racks up 25-35%, just teching and good DI will keep the damage down.

ok..what is there to tech? Kirby's fthrow->uair combos at around 0%, and possibly another fthrow->uair (dunno if Fox can DI out of this one). Fox can use Reflector to interrupt the combo, but Kirby can predict it, shield the reflector, and regrab.

As for Dthrow, it's good for racking up damage (does 12%) and then it leads into chase->regrab, but Fox can escape pretty easily by doing Side B to quickly get well out of Kirby's reach.

i find dair easily punishable with fox's fair or nair.

I'm not sure how..Kirby should be using it when you're on the ground or below him, which means shielding it and grabbing, or Uair would be your best options. I'm not sure if Fox's Uair beats Kirby's Dair or not.

without copying fox kirby lacks a good projectile which forces him to approach.

This is true, but Kirby has to approach essentially everyone, and Fox is one of the easier characters to approach, due to his lack of swords and crap, and a grab range that isn't huge.

kirbys fair is his spacing tool.not sure what to say on this one.

So is Bair, and it's probably better at it.

recovering kirbys know their foward-b's well and up-b is about as gimpable as ikes not including the pseudo-projectile that comes out,on stage it can be shined however.

Kirby should try to avoid landing onstage with Final Cutter whenever possible, because it has massive ending lag. Reflecting it is definitely not your best option, the beam usually dissipates before it reaches Kirby anyway, unless you're really close. But like I said, huge landing lag. If Kirby lands onstage with his Up B, just shield it and punish however you see fit. He should be aiming to grab the ledge.

Forward B? We'll only be using that from very far for horizontal momentum to save our jumps. If we're using it up close, we're probably trying to hit you, or discourage your approach, and it usually works pretty well.

I guess Fox could shinespike Kirby offstage from up B, but it's not going to happen too often.

Zhamy · Jan 8, 2009

65:35 Kirby, at best. Maybe closer to 60:40, but whatever.

Bair basically prevents most of Fox's approaches from working properly, which really doesn't leave him much. Laser camping is semi-effective here, as Fox can indeed outcamp Kirby.

Really, Fox has to go the bait and punish route here. Kirby, being floaty and a lightweight, has an easier time getting out of Fox's combos, but he'll still eat quite a bit if he gets hit. Also, being lightweight means Kirby is Usmash bait - at killing percentages, do not approach Fox from the air. Usmash trades or beats out a lot of Kirby's hitboxes, and dash shield into OoS Usmash is a monster.

In general, though, Kirby just spams his usual stupid good stuff and beats out Fox. You don't really want to copy blaster - Fox will reflector it and you'll have wasted your time.

Recovery wise, Kirby should have fun gimping Fox. Fox is okay at gimping Kirby, but it's nothing special, and Kirby deals with Illusion and Firefox fine. Watch out for shinestalls, though.

We discussed Kirby on Fox forums a while back, but yeah. I'm tired.

feardragon64 · Jan 8, 2009

Asdioh said:
o_o
ok..what is there to tech? Kirby's fthrow->uair combos at around 0%, and possibly another fthrow->uair (dunno if Fox can DI out of this one). Fox can use Reflector to interrupt the combo, but Kirby can predict it, shield the reflector, and regrab.
As for Dthrow, it's good for racking up damage (does 12%) and then it leads into chase->regrab, but Fox can escape pretty easily by doing Side B to quickly get well out of Kirby's reach.

Agree with you here

Asdioh said:
I'm not sure how..Kirby should be using it when you're on the ground or below him, which means shielding it and grabbing, or Uair would be your best options. I'm not sure if Fox's Uair beats Kirby's Dair or not.

Aerials always have priority over ground attacks. If nothing else, the dair outranges the uair. It's only punishable if he doesn't get hit...but that's true for like how many moves? X_X

Asdioh said:
This is true, but Kirby has to approach essentially everyone, and Fox is one of the easier characters to approach, due to his lack of swords and crap, and a grab range that isn't huge.

See what I said in my last post about the approaching issue from Fox's laser. Crouch. I guess you have to approach if you're not ahead. If you are dtilt if he approaches from ground. You'll have enough time to tell if he's going to approach aerially.

Asdioh said:
So is Bair, and it's probably better at it.

Also bair is probably best for hitting fox out of his phantasm.

Asdioh said:
Kirby should try to avoid landing onstage with Final Cutter whenever possible, because it has massive ending lag. Reflecting it is definitely not your best option, the beam usually dissipates before it reaches Kirby anyway, unless you're really close. But like I said, huge landing lag. If Kirby lands onstage with his Up B, just shield it and punish however you see fit. He should be aiming to grab the ledge.

Shouldn't kirby be avoiding it in general anyways(unless they're like far enough away >>)

Asdioh said:
Forward B? We'll only be using that from very far for horizontal momentum to save our jumps. If we're using it up close, we're probably trying to hit you, or discourage your approach, and it usually works pretty well.

I guess Fox could shinespike Kirby offstage from up B, but it's not going to happen too often.

Bair to the face! Also possibly dair =b

Falconv1.0 · Jan 8, 2009

Kirby beats Fox at everything and can combo him to like 60%. I dont even no why we are discussing this what the ****. We are essentially wasting time talking about a match up that really should never happen at tourneys. It's easily 70-30.

Crouch for lasers, bair to beat like every ****ing move he has.

NinjaFoxX · Jan 8, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
Kirby beats Fox at everything and can combo him to like 60%. I dont even no why we are discussing this what the ****. We are essentially wasting time talking about a match up that really should never happen at tourneys. It's easily 70-30.

Crouch for lasers, bair to beat like every ****ing move he has.

i CP as ICs or yoshi(i do for all my 'aerial' foes ;P)

-Mars- · Jan 8, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
Kirby beats Fox at everything and can combo him to like 60%. I dont even no why we are discussing this what the ****. We are essentially wasting time talking about a match up that really should never happen at tourneys. It's easily 70-30.

Crouch for lasers, bair to beat like every ****ing move he has.

First off, no player with any common sense on DI is going to let Kirby combo Fox to 60%.....I might be able to see 40%. Fox can win in this matchup, Kirby dying around 90% everytime is certainly going to keep Fox in the match.

Second of all, if Fox ever has the lead at any time in the match.....you have to approach, so lets cut out the stupid crouch comments now.

Kirby has one move that I have to be cautious of. Dash shields are a pretty good option in this matchup and if you don't space it right i'm going to usmash you OoS. If you poke my shield and drift away, i'm going to get a couple of lasers in.

I say it's 60:40, it certainly isn't a **** matchup and I would have no problem playing it in tourny.

Falconv1.0 · Jan 8, 2009

60/40 is being too kind in my opinion. >_> I'm not going to restate everything everyone has already said. I'm with Gonzo that 65/35 is as low as I'll go. =/

EDITED-You guys are pricks to the max.

SaltyKracka · Jan 8, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
60/40 is being too kind in my opinion. >_> I'm not going to restate everything everyone has already said. I'm with Gonzo that 65/45 is as low as I'll go. =/

Math. You has problems with it.

-Mars- · Jan 8, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
60/40 is being too kind in my opinion. >_> I'm not going to restate everything everyone has already said. I'm with Gonzo that 65/45 is as low as I'll go. =/

Learn to count before you make comments in matchup discussions please.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 8, 2009

LMAO MY b GUYS, 65 / 35, AND DONT BLAME THEM MARSULAS, THAT WAS MY MISTAKE, akward Caps lock was on

anywhoe 65 / 35 is what i meant, i understand that fox has some positives in the match which i duly stated in my original comment but Kirby has the advantage during to many situations for fox to be able to break even in the match or come closer than 65 / 35

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Henshin a go-go Baby!

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Smash Champion

Mammy

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Champion

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Mammy

Smash Ace

Henshin a go-go Baby!

Not Asidoh

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

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Banned via Warnings

Not Asidoh

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Banned via Warnings

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

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