The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

momochuu · Jan 9, 2009

MK26 said:
Asdioh, is that you?

Lululululul.

Asdioh · Jan 10, 2009

Zhamy said:
Are you kidding? Once you're off the ship for RC, it's camping heaven for Fox. He has enough speed to basically avoid Kirby for most of the match, and a good Fox will abuse that heavily. RC is by no means a bad stage for Fox, and definitely not a good CP.

Want a good stage that screws up Fox really badly? Lylat Cruise. The edges do horrible things to him.

I can see that.

And the edges do horrible things to EVERYONE. :[

I just played Fox against level 9s for like an hour since noone was on wifi.

I found that you can just spam blaster and the computers will just roll around and get hit, and barely attack you. It's pretty ********.

But despite that, it was sooo fun. I'm seriously considering using Fox as at least my Snake counter. He can actually KO Snake, and camp him. <3!

MK26 · Jan 11, 2009

Discussion's dead. Verdict: 65-35

Week 17: Not MK yet

ROB

Just because he's inanimate doesn't mean he can't win

Difficulty rating: 40-60

JCaesar · Jan 11, 2009

Why the Kirby boards would waste their time discussing Yoshi and Poke Trainer before MK is beyond me...

Anyways, I think this matchup is pretty even. ROB can handle Kirby in the air (I believe ROB's fair and Kirby's bair trade hits, but someone may want to check that), and he beats Kirby on the ground, just with sheer range and speed. Kirby approaches very well and wins by a large margin in straight up kill power though, and dying under 100% makes ROB sad.

ROB basically can't be spiked (I've played probably around 8 tournament sets vs Chu and he hasn't successfully spiked me once). It's also very tough to gimp ROB unless you have near perfect prediction and spacing on your bairs. Kirby doesn't rely on gimps the way ROB does though, since even a DIed fsmash or hammer from Kirby can kill under 100%.

Kirby on the other hand isn't especially tough for ROB to gimp and that is what ROB does best. Kirby is in a lot of trouble if he's coming back to the stage from below.

Kirby doesn't have too much trouble getting close when ROB tries to camp. He's small and quick and approaches well, even against ROB's quick and long-ranged tilts.

ROB can jump out of the Gonzo combo after the uair I believe.

Kirby should consider counterpicking a stage with small boundaries like Halberd, so he can kill ROB low and make ROB's awesome survivability a nonfactor. Rainbow Cruise may also be a good pick because Kirby is more mobile in the air and ROB can't really camp there (not to mention Kirby's gay uthrow trixies there). I dunno what Kirby should ban, I dunno what stages he's bad on. I usually CP Frigate just because I feel comfortable there and it's a bit easier to gimp.

I'd put this at 50:50 at worst for Kirby but maybe that's just bias from getting stomped on by the best Kirby in the world a couple times a month.

A1lion835 · Jan 11, 2009

60-40 rob.

DFat2 · Jan 11, 2009

JCaesar007 said:
Anyways, I think this matchup is pretty even. ROB can handle Kirby in the air (I believe ROB's fair and Kirby's bair trade hits, but someone may want to check that), and he beats Kirby on the ground, just with sheer range and speed.

Good Point. Even if Bair and ROB's Fair Trade, we still have to be backards to use it, so it would be pretty obvious when we would use it and easier to predict/punish.

ROB's Dtilt has more range than kirby's and far more speed. ROB's Ftilt has Far more Range and can Stop a Ground approach.

Kirby's best position while fighting ROB is bellow him. Kirby's Uair hits before ROB's Dair and Nair when your bellow him.

Kirby's Fast and Unpredictable, but that doesn't well near makes up for ROB's Range, Speed, and Camping Capability. Best Way to aproach with Kirby is with Grabs. If you approach from the Air, he could jump and Fair/Uair or Shield Grab you. If you land behind them, they drop their shield and Down smash.

JCaesar007 said:
Kirby approaches very well and wins by a large margin in straight up kill power though, and dying under 100% makes ROB sad.

Kirby Kills easier, but he gets Gimped easier. I would Take a Clean Gimp over a Normal kill any day, especially in a tourney match. You Can't Foot Stool ROB's Up B recovery, and if he sees you approaching for Diar, He will definitely Uair you.

ROB's Foot stool > Dair is sad. The bad thing is that it's not impossible

.

JCaesar007 said:
Kirby doesn't rely on gimps the way ROB does though, since even a DIed fsmash or hammer from Kirby can kill under 100%.

He doesn't rely on them, but they don't hurt to have. What Kirby doesn't go for the Gimp? Its a basic part of Play and not being able to Gimp him says something.

Hammers First Hit doesn't Kill rob under 100 unless he's near the edge so you must be talking about the second hit. It's not a reliable killing move. Situational at best. Mind game Kill? Call it what you want I guess.

JCaesar007 said:
Kirby should consider counterpicking a stage with small boundaries like Halberd, so he can kill ROB low and make ROB's awesome survivability a nonfactor. Rainbow Cruise may also be a good pick because Kirby is more mobile in the air and ROB can't really camp there (not to mention Kirby's gay uthrow trixies there). I dunno what Kirby should ban, I dunno what stages he's bad on. I usually CP Frigate just because I feel comfortable there and it's a bit easier to gimp.

Kirby should pick a small stage where ROB couldn't camp you, or at least a stage where like you said, you could get an easy kill.

Brinstar would be a Good counter Pick for Fighting ROB. Since Kirby Kills before ROB, that would be the best stage to get the early Kills.

RC is good, but not to fight ROB. There are multiple platforms for ROB to run off to. He can basically Camp you the whole Fight or w/e.

ROB isn't camping the Whole Fight. DGrab > Uair does Decent Damage. DTilt (trip) > Grab > Down Grab > Uair.

Overall, apart from Killing, ROB has more options than Kirby in most situations. He can Gimp Kirby Fairly. He can Combo as good as kirby can.

If you don't use mind games and play smart in the match up, you will have the hardest time in your live winning. (Hyperbole)

58:42, and that's being generous. 60:40 at most in Favor Of ROB in both.

JCaesar007 said:
I'd put this at 50:50 at worst for Kirby but maybe that's just bias from getting stomped on by the best Kirby in the world a couple times a month.

Yeah, maybe.

fromundaman · Jan 12, 2009

God I hate this matchup... I'd take on MK over ROB anyday.

Anyways, I think this matchup is pretty even. ROB can handle Kirby in the air (I believe ROB's fair and Kirby's bair trade hits, but someone may want to check that)

I'm pretty sure ROB's Fair outranges Kirby's Bair. While I don't have godlike spacing, I have never managed to trade hits with Iska's ROB (I have to hit first if I want to hit at all.)

ROB basically can't be spiked (I've played probably around 8 tournament sets vs Chu and he hasn't successfully spiked me once). It's also very tough to gimp ROB unless you have near perfect prediction and spacing on your bairs.

Actually, a FFed Dair>Footstool will gimp ROB (Since the footstool will stop him from using UpB before going offscreen), but realistically, that situation will rarely, if ever, happen since ROB's Uair beats Kirby's Dair and even more importantly because if you FF your Dair, ROB can DI up through it and spike you.

ROB can jump out of the Gonzo combo after the uair I believe.

Yup.

I'd put this at 50:50 at worst for Kirby but maybe that's just bias from getting stomped on by the best Kirby in the world a couple times a month.

I believe it is, although I have a bias from being beat by ROB so much, so meh.

ROB's Ftilt has Far more Range and can Stop a Ground approach.

This. It hurts us really badly.

Kirby's best position while fighting ROB is bellow him. Kirby's Uair hits before ROB's Dair and Nair when your bellow him.

Be careful not to be hit with a descending Nair though.

The problem in this matchup I believe is that ROB has a great camping game, which forces us to approach, yet also a great approach killing game. He outranges everything we have on the ground and in the air. On top of that, we can't do most of our combos on him because of his floatiness, and he never seems to die (One game I managed a Bair stage spike and 2 Dair Spikes on a recovering ROB and STILL the ROB player got back and gave me a facefull of Fair.) unless we hit him with a Fsmash, which, unfortunately, will become predictable and clashes with his Ftilt.

However, I have heard that ROB's have trouble with perfectly spaced Bairs (my spacing was bad when I was playing ROB a lot, and since the guy I played now switched to MK, I don't get much ROB practice anymore.), though they will shieldgrab you if you misspace it.
Getting ROB's laser helps you a LOT too, since it allows you to effectively camp back and possibly force ROB to approach you. Having his laser and Gyro will cause almost every ROB to wait for you to throw it, get hit by lasers, rush at you to get it back, and get hit by something else, so that tends to work well too.

I like Brinistar for this matchup. It allows you to lessen the impact of the Gyro, and the close borders and other tricks help Kirby out quite a bit.

I don't really know how to rate this matchup... I would say 60-40 for ROB, but then I realize that that's almost what MK feels like, and ROB is harder than MK, and yet 70-30 is Marth, and ROB is nowhere near Marth in difficulty, so I dunno...

EDIT: We have Marth at 60-40 marth? WTF?

feardragon64 · Jan 12, 2009

60-40 R.O.B. sounds pretty good to me. He has a pretty decent advantage over kirby, but again, nothing largely exploitable. Most of the stuff has been covered, but what are your guys' thoughts on his laser? Obviously most attempts at swallowcides and spitting will be useless here so it's definitely worth getting. It's also great for making it harder for R.O.B. to camp, which is a huge plus.

True combos with it? Good follow-ups? Another(safer) edge-guarding tool?

And ya, when we get to Marth....

momochuu · Jan 12, 2009

R.O.B is gay.

MK26 · Jan 12, 2009

Hmmm...it seems like this is another one of those machups where we think the matchup is worse than they do. I dabble in ROB, and, being able to look at this from both sides, i'd say 40-60 may not give Kirby enough credit. It's in that grey area that Ike vs. Kirby is, except we're the ones saying 60-40 and they're saying neutral

And in regards to Marth, the Marth boards actually came to us and said something along the lines of "yeah, we've looked over the matchup and realized that it isn't that bad for you guys"

And to whoever said i was stupid for discussing Yoshi and PT before MK, it was because i had absolutely no idea about what the ratings were, and the ones we had already were grossly inaccurate.

fromundaman · Jan 12, 2009

Hmmm...it seems like this is another one of those machups where we think the matchup is worse than they do. I dabble in ROB, and, being able to look at this from both sides, i'd say 40-60 may not give Kirby enough credit. It's in that grey area that Ike vs. Kirby is, except we're the ones saying 60-40 and they're saying neutral

True, but I dunno... the ROB player I play daily, DJ_Iskascribble (Who apparently beat AZ last month as ROB/MK), agrees with me that this matchup is about 60-40 ROB.

And in regards to Marth, the Marth boards actually came to us and said something along the lines of "yeah, we've looked over the matchup and realized that it isn't that bad for you guys"

Looks like I have to go check out their matchup thread and see this reasoning...

And to whoever said i was stupid for discussing Yoshi and PT before MK, it was because i had absolutely no idea about what the ratings were, and the ones we had already were grossly inaccurate.

I'm not complaining. Good job with the thread!

feardragon64 · Jan 12, 2009

MK26 said:
And in regards to Marth, the Marth boards actually came to us and said something along the lines of "yeah, we've looked over the matchup and realized that it isn't that bad for you guys"

Link me to that....I've read almost all of the discussion and no credible Marth main that I saw said that.....

Unless you were talking about Junk's post, in which case he was being sarcastic. >>

But ya, to the end I'm pretty sure Marth boards stick with 70:30. 65:35 at worst for kirby imo. If you guys want discuss it again I'm game.

And you're doing fine with the thread. Who cares about the order >>

MK26 · Jan 12, 2009

feardragon64 said:
Link me to that....I've read almost all of the discussion and no credible Marth main that I saw said that.....

Unless you were talking about Junk's post, in which case he was being sarcastic. >>

But ya, to the end I'm pretty sure Marth boards stick with 70:30. 65:35 at worst for kirby imo. If you guys want discuss it again I'm game.

And you're doing fine with the thread. Who cares about the order >>

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5518622#post5518622 and http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5521817#post5521817

feardragon64 · Jan 12, 2009

MK26 said:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5518622#post5518622 and http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5521817#post5521817

I feel so out of the loop right now lmao.

Ah well, more power to the puff ball =D

And erm...back to ROB?

Is it me or does Gonzo combo not work well on ROB. Best I can get is grab, fthrow, uair, grab, pummel, fthrow, uair. Amounts to 36%.

MK26 · Jan 12, 2009

feardragon64 said:
I feel so out of the loop right now lmao.

Ah well, more power to the puff ball =D

And erm...back to ROB?

I ought to get the award in the Kirby awards thread for fastest end to a debate

And yes...back to ROB - i heard Kirby can't glide toss...what do we do with the gyro?

feardragon64 · Jan 12, 2009

MK26 said:
I ought to get the award in the Kirby awards thread for fastest end to a debate

And yes...back to ROB - i heard Kirby can't glide toss...what do we do with the gyro?

lol. Anyways, if you catch it, you can and use it against him. If not, swallow works and can go unpunished unless you're like almost right next to him. If you are next to him, fsmash has equally priority with it.

Vorguen · Jan 12, 2009

R.O.B. does lack a reliable reflector so you definately want to absorb his laser. If you can force R.O.B. to approach you have a good advantage because R.O.B. has a pretty terrible approach.

I don't know the Kirby fight that well with R.O.B. unfortunately.

JCaesar · Jan 12, 2009

Swallowing the gyro is very punishable. If you're far away you'll eat a laser, and if ROB is glidetossing towards you you'll eat a smash. It's best just to throw it back at ROB while you approach.

Vorguen · Jan 12, 2009

lol Jcaesar What are you doing over here?

Yeah I forgot to mention I would not swallow a Gyro if I was you, that's an excuse to eat a free laser. Another thing you can do with the gyro is place it between you and R.O.B.

That might be another option as well. If you touch it while it's on the ground it hits you for a bit, which would allow for a number of good opportunities. Also keeping it on the stage keeps R.O.B. from bringing out a new one to throw at you.

DFat2 · Jan 12, 2009

JCaesar007 said:
Swallowing the gyro is very punishable. If you're far away you'll eat a laser, and if ROB is glidetossing towards you you'll eat a smash. It's best just to throw it back at ROB while you approach.

What He said. Don't Swallow it.

The Best thing to do with gyro is...to...Shield it. It dissapears completely and, well, your shielding so anything he tries to do out of a Glide tossed Gyro can be punished I guess. If he trows it to Camp, Shield it and Continue your Camping with his *beep*. If you don't have his beep, you have some serious issues

A1lion835 · Jan 12, 2009

DFat1 said:
What He said. Don't Swallow it.

The Best thing to do with gyro is...to...Shield it. It dissapears completely and, well, your shielding so anything he tries to do out of a Glide tossed Gyro can be punished I guess. If he trows it to Camp, Shield it and Continue your Camping with his *beep*. If you don't have his beep, you have some serious issues

While shielding isn't a bad idea, sidestepping it is better. If it disappears, ROB can just pull out a new one, and it'll deal more damage than if he throws it at you. Plus, you'll be between ROB and the gyro, so he won't be able to re-grab it or use another one. You could also catch it, which prevents rob from using it altogether (though your options are somewhat limited, i.e. you can't use a lot of your attacks or you'll just throw the gyro).

DFat2 · Jan 12, 2009

A1lion835 said:
While shielding isn't a bad idea, sidestepping it is better. If it disappears, ROB can just pull out a new one, and it'll deal more damage than if he throws it at you. Plus, you'll be between ROB and the gyro, so he won't be able to re-grab it or use another one. You could also catch it, which prevents rob from using it altogether (though your options are somewhat limited, i.e. you can't use a lot of your attacks or you'll just throw the gyro).

I don't know about ROB players in general, but I've played ROB's who trow it so that you spot dodge it. The Gyro Lands behind you, while it's still active and can give damage and is a really good way to Combo you with. Ftilt; you get hit by gyro and they go for a grab; ect.

A1lion835 · Jan 12, 2009

DFat1 said:
I don't know about ROB players in general, but I've played ROB's who trow it so that you spot dodge it. The Gyro Lands behind you, while it's still active and can give damage and is a really good way to Combo you with. Ftilt; you get hit by gyro and they go for a grab; ect.

So in that case try to grab it, I guess... though that's hard to do. I will ponder this.

Vorguen · Jan 12, 2009

Yeah that's why I explained that same scenario, If you spotdodge it you can pick it up yourself and place it between YOU and R.O.B.

That would

A) not allow him to pull out another one on you

B) Keep a nuisance between both of you which could potentially open up many options. If he tries to grab it with a dash attack, that's a free laser back in his face.

A1lion835 · Jan 12, 2009

I'd counterpick brinstar against him... not because it's awesome in general (okay, maybe), but because you can probably put the gyro in the acid without anything happening, a fully charged gyro would probably fly offstage, and a non-charged one you could probably get. Only thing you'd need to watch out for is the gyro bouncing off one of the flesh-things and hitting you on the rebound. Not to mention ridiculously low % kills.

Vorguen · Jan 12, 2009

I don't know for sure but anything that can help ROB get lower percent kills might not necessarily be in your favor...

momochuu · Jan 12, 2009

I uh...I know you people LOOOOVE Brinstar now, for whatever reason, but taking everyone there is not a good idea. I have never played a ROB on Brinstar but it really doesn't seem like he'd perform badly there.

NAir and BAir must kill at some stupid percents there.

Btw, why aren't you taking ROBs to Battlefield? >__>

Vorguen · Jan 12, 2009

Yes ROB does have an annoying fight in Battlefield. You have to remember ROB's biggest weakness is his KO ability (or lack of ability).

Platform stages really hurt ROB, battlefield is a better stage to fight him in.

momochuu · Jan 12, 2009

If you and a few R.O.Bs don't mind, could you explain why Battlefield is such a bad stage for him? I knew it was because of the platforms, but is that it?

fromundaman · Jan 13, 2009

I don't have much time to post this right now, but both of those stages are good vs ROB. Brinistar and Norfair negate the gyro by making it bounce on the lava for minutes at a time, and BF allows you to fight ROB from underneath effectively.

Also, to spot dodge/Shield the gyro depends on the distance between you guys. If close, dodge, if far, shield.

feardragon64 · Jan 13, 2009

I'm just throwing this out there but what do you guys think about rainbow cruise? ROB has a hard time getting kills so having a semi-large stage most of the time solves that problem. His ability to camp is lessoned by you know...the moving stage.....and the fact that the stage moves vertically allows kirby to exploit another one of ROB's weaknesses, his blind spots in aerial combat. FF bair's from above and at an angle. ROB can't really combat or punish since he doesn't have any moves that attack at the proper angle for it. Also, if Kirby gets the cap, he can respond to ROB's attempted camping as well. What do you guys think? I could be wrong about this.

Vorguen · Jan 13, 2009

ROB's weak spots are when he is above you or when his back is turned towards you. If you put him on top of you in a platform you are abusing his weakspot (referred to also as blindspot)

He won't be able to effectively attack you and you can abuse him with your plethora of moves from below him.

Also his projectile spam is not as effective with platforms around. You can grab his Gyro and keep it on a platform and ROB won't risk going for it since it would expose him, and keeping it on the ledge will leave it standing there and not allow him to pull out another.

It mainly allows you to poke at R.O.B.'s weaknesses a bit more.

CaliburChamp · Jan 13, 2009

I'd say the ROB match up is either 35:65 or 40:60 in ROB's favor. Either way, ROB has the advantage. There's no need for me to go into detail, the people who posted above me about ROB being a bad match up to Kirby are correct. *Remembers his match playing against HolyNightmare's ROB* -_-

There are also video's of Chu's Kirby losing to Chibo Sempai's ROB. Just to further that proof, that ROB has the advantage.

Vorguen · Jan 13, 2009

I wouldn't know, I have met very few capable Kirby's and I fought none of them as R.O.B. =/

CaliburChamp · Jan 13, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
I'd say the ROB match up is either 35:65 or 40:60 in ROB's favor. Either way, ROB has the advantage. There's no need for me to go into detail, the people who posted above me about ROB being a bad match up to Kirby are correct. *Remembers his match playing against HolyNightmare's ROB* -_-

There are also video's of Chu's Kirby losing to Chibo Sempai's ROB. Just to further that proof, that ROB has the advantage.

I found the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGN42RQvwSs&feature=channel_page

TheRockSays · Jan 13, 2009

you guys exagerate this match up the only things rob has on kirby is his dsmash and Nair. I do agree grabs are the way to go. The wall of pain is very good against rob(Bair), Kirby should have no problem beating a rob in Platform Stages. Best of all Rob can not chase kirby Flight is way better.

Lord Viper · Jan 13, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
I found the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGN42RQvwSs&feature=channel_page

t!mmy's Kirby getting owned by t0mmy's ROB already proved that point.

But yea, ROB's hit box is so retarted, and he's very hard to gimp, I will say 45-55 ROB just for now, I figure how to get around ROB is to have great air time, most of ROB's strong air move's have lag excpet for B-Air, but it's hard to get hit by that. Mostly, if you get near ROB most of the time, your asken to get D-Smashed and if you stay to far, he will Laser camp or Gyro camp you to no end. ROB is still very vonrable to Kirby's air move's, F-Smash and grab's, that's why I say 45-55.

Vorguen · Jan 13, 2009

Hmm ROB's F-air doesn't have much lag. Actually his b-air has much more lag except that it has a type of auto-spacing attached to it so the ending lag isn't that big of a deal, mostly just the start-up lag.

CaliburChamp · Jan 13, 2009

TheRockSays said:
you guys exagerate this match up the only things rob has on kirby is his dsmash and Nair. I do agree grabs are the way to go. The wall of pain is very good against rob(Bair), Kirby should have no problem beating a rob in Platform Stages. Best of all Rob can not chase kirby Flight is way better.

It's still one of Kirby's hardest match ups. We have proof of videos to show this like the one I gave, don't just give your opinion, give some proof like I did, of a good Kirby player losing to a ROB player. We are not exaggerating about this matchup. ROB has the advantage.

Retroend · Jan 13, 2009

rob does have an advantage. i faced a really good rob player this past weekend. it was very hard to get close to him without being d-smashed or f-air. one thing i do suggest is to take his power. you can get a upper hand in some situations. aside from that rob is hard to get. i'd say 45-55 in robs favor, but he's not impossible. (and i won that rob match, but it was very difficult).

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