The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

fromundaman · Jan 13, 2009

TheRockSays said:
you guys exagerate this match up the only things rob has on kirby is his dsmash and Nair. I do agree grabs are the way to go. The wall of pain is very good against rob(Bair), Kirby should have no problem beating a rob in Platform Stages. Best of all Rob can not chase kirby Flight is way better.

I disagree VERY heavily. You obviously didn't read the last page or two, so allow me to restate:

We have no projectile, ROB has 2, and the only way for us to neutralize that is to inhale you, which is hard to get off.
Your Ftilt beats out EVERY ground approach we have. Yes, I am including the Fsmash (It clanks, at which point we are in range of your Dtilt, which comes out faster than anything we have. Our only option is to shield and attempt to roll away, at which point we get hit by either laser or gyro.).
While your Dsmash and our Utilt clank, the timing for it is so strict that the only way to get it to do so is pretty much through sheer luck or using both controllers. Yeah, we can shield it, but again, your follow ups are faster than ours unless we are in grab range.
Speaking of grabs, we can't combo ROB at all if you DI right.
While we can WoP you, it only works at lower percents, as at higher percents you will have time to Fair, which beats out our Bair.
You never... ****ing... die...

That's not to say this match is impossible. We have things going for us too (great grab reach, even if we can't combo from our grabs, Uair juggles, WoPs at low percents, easy KO power, gimping potential (though this usually won't work against a good ROB who knows the matchup), and the potential to camp just as well as he (once we get his power)), but this match is by no means even. The main problem we have is getting our hits in, though one we do, it's going to hurt.

Also, Fear, I personally wouldn't take Cruise against ROB. It's not a level he'll do badly on, and in a way it kind of helps his recovery (he can recharge anywhere!). Also, he can Fair WoP you off the side when the stage goes up, and the part on the right helps his camping game. Also, due to our slow aerial speed, this stage will allow him to get a lot of Nairs and possibly Dairs off on us.

Personally, I'd go Brinistar, Norfair, Green Greens, Pirate Ship (I just like that level), BF or Lylat against ROB. (Lylat is one I'm not *too* sure of though. I'd think the slanted edges and the fact the stage moves could hinder his projectile game.)

Do NOT take him to FD or Frigate (I don't really know what other levels are good for ROB...).

Edit: Oh and guys, seeing a good Kirby lose to a good ROB proves absolutely nothing... I've seen a good Sonic beat a good ROB, and a good Ganon beat a good G&W, but that does not mean that Sonic or Ganon have good matchups in those scenarios.

Dabuz · Jan 13, 2009

robs projectiles: all can be blocked and you can absorb him, very easy to avoid, bair will wreck him due to laggy aerials,(just don't charge him) and you can constantly grab him with no problem, i wish i could put more but i have yet to lose to a rob so i don't know what he has against kirby to be honest, but maybe its just me, personally it feels 60-40 us, we can beat out his air game if we go close and stick with fast attacks, kill much easier than him in this matchup, can completely nullify his camp, and even out his ground game, just sheild grab his dsmashes and nair has start up time that makes it easy to avoid

~Gonzo~ · Jan 14, 2009

This is def an even matchup IMO, reasons why:

Although ROB may have two projectiles they are very easy to predict and can be easily powershielded, shielded, or dodged. Second ROBs aerials have small hitboxes compared to his size making it fairly easy to hit him with Bair. ROB definitely out ranges us on the ground but just jump up into the air or get a shield grab. ROB really gets gimped when u start grab chasing him, with no effective moves besides Bair or Fair, both of which can be dealt with by staying under ROB on his way down or just grab shielding. Probably ROBs biggest weakness is his Bup. Any Kirby knows that once u have forced ROB to use his Bup its almost a guaranteed hit from Rock. Which in many cases can kill ROB and if not then u can always just abuse ur Fsmash to hit them off the stage again and try to get another brick.

Kirby should def keep his space when ROB is still high in the air due to ROB's gigantic Nair lol and its above avg strength. Although its sometimes possible to hit ROB b4 he uses it its not the smartest thing to do.

Thats my take on ROB, prediction is the key, every ROB player will always laser at a particular time and gyro at a particular time, its different from player to player but once u've figured it out u really shouldnt be getting hit bby to many more.

Sudai · Jan 14, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6363942#post6363942

We're also discussing you guys.

Falconv1.0 · Jan 14, 2009

I'm leaning more towards 6:4 Kirby than 5:5 because all ROB really has on Kirby are two ok projectiles and a better ground game. I could ****ing care less about ground game when all that Kirby's ground game really needs are grab combos, then it's aerials/whatever is open for you at the moment.

jiovanni007 · Jan 14, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
I'm leaning more towards 6:4 Kirby than 5:5 because all ROB really has on Kirby are two ok projectiles and a better ground game. I could ****ing care less about ground game when all that Kirby's ground game really needs are grab combos, then it's aerials/whatever is open for you at the moment.

Don't sleep on ROB's air game. Fair and uair beat you though his nair has a tiny blind spot that you can hit with a bair. ROB's bair has some startup but has power and overlaps everything you can do. Dair usually only punishes ^B but you shouldn't have to do that if you DI and avoid edge guarding. Since we already know ROB's ground game is better than Kirby's there's no need to discuss that. Unless you can copy, ROB becomes difficult to approach as he can tick away at you and maybe get at least 10% which is a lot to take as Kirby. This match is not easy or even at all, easily 65:35 only match i find harder is Lucario who I think we need to review again.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 14, 2009

lolz at the above statement my friend, what ur describing is a Kirby that is blindly taking a ROB on head to head move for move, 65:35 is an understatement if a kirby went at ROB like that. Instead a Kirby players will make use of ROB's large size to hit box ratio. Meaning ROB's hitboxes for his faster moves are small when compared to his overall size. This means ROB has a lot of weakpoints when it comes to using faster moves like Fair, Ftilt, and Fsmash. Kirby can duck under Ftilt and Fsmash, he can Bair or Uair under ROB's Fair. Any character would be stupid to see ROB facing away from them and attempt an aerial. I will say that ROB's Nair is def something to watchout for as its range and startup can trap a lot of players into it, especially if its spaced well. Kirby has the answers for KOing ROB and for spacing ROB, Kirby players can't go about beating ROB in a head to head game, Otherwise this matchup is 50:50 for reasons stated on the previous page.

fromundaman · Jan 15, 2009

Why do I keep hearing people worry about ROB getting Daired? Uair beats our Dair, and you can use it and still recover easily. Hell, I've hit ROB with a Bair stagespike AND a Dair AND gotten Uaired out of a second Dair and ROB STILL made it back, so really, that's not something you need to worry about. Really all we could do to kill with that almost would be FFing it to a footstool at the bottom of the screen, but if you DI up, you get a free footstool/spike, so meh...

Also, Gonzo, Ftilt and Fsmash can both be angled, so crouching isn't going to work.
Also, Bairing Fair only works if it is rising and perfectly spaced, as all of ROB is the hitbox. Same goes for Bair, so don't go blindly trying to hit him in the head if he does a Bair away from you.
Also, Nair starts at the bottom of him and a little behind, and has very little anding lag, so be careful when he's just above you too.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 15, 2009

i understand they can be angled down, but instead of shielding many times people will just crouch and since ROB was aiming for Kirby where he was standing they wont aim it down, even if it was aimed down if u have enough time to duck u obviously have enough time to shield. And ftilt can be angled but will only hit if kirby is a fair distance away from ROB, if kirby is close then Ftilt is gonna swing right over him.

pkblaze · Jan 15, 2009

~Gonzo~ said:
i understand they can be angled down, but instead of shielding many times people will just crouch and since ROB was aiming for Kirby where he was standing they wont aim it down, even if it was aimed down if u have enough time to duck u obviously have enough time to shield. And ftilt can be angled but will only hit if kirby is a fair distance away from ROB, if kirby is close then Ftilt is gonna swing right over him.

and what do you do from there? i'm guessing either F-tilt or F-snash, depending on percentages?

JCaesar · Jan 15, 2009

Pretty much anything that Kirby shields = free fsmash, which kills ROB much lower than he's used to.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 15, 2009

JCaesar007 said:
Pretty much anything that Kirby shields = free fsmash, which kills ROB much lower than he's used to.

thnx for the input JCaesar, rematch next tourney ???

MK26 · Jan 15, 2009

Does everybody agree with 45-55?

JCaesar · Jan 15, 2009

~Gonzo~ said:
thnx for the input JCaesar, rematch next tourney ???

Sure if you show up to anything

~Gonzo~ · Jan 16, 2009

JCaesar007 said:
Sure if you show up to anything

lolz 10 i'll tries

fromundaman · Jan 16, 2009

MK26 said:
Does everybody agree with 45-55?

I was thinking 60-40 myself, if only because 45-55 is where I'd put MK >.<

Also, have we already done the Samus matchup?

Asdioh · Jan 16, 2009

I'm possibly around 40 posts behind, but I'm quoting these right now before I lose my train of thought:

MK26 said:
And yes...back to ROB - i heard Kirby can't glide toss...what do we do with the gyro?

Indeed, Kirby cannot glide toss.

feardragon64 said:
lol. Anyways, if you catch it, you can and use it against him. If not, swallow works and can go unpunished unless you're like almost right next to him. If you are next to him, fsmash has equally priority with it.

JCaesar007 said:
Swallowing the gyro is very punishable. If you're far away you'll eat a laser, and if ROB is glidetossing towards you you'll eat a smash. It's best just to throw it back at ROB while you approach.

What this guy said, do NOT swallow it.

DFat1 said:
The Best thing to do with gyro is...to...Shield it. It dissapears completely and, well, your shielding so anything he tries to do out of a Glide tossed Gyro can be punished I guess.

Shielding it is OK, but when it disappears, that just means ROB can use it again.

A1lion835 said:
While shielding isn't a bad idea, sidestepping it is better. If it disappears, ROB can just pull out a new one, and it'll deal more damage than if he throws it at you. Plus, you'll be between ROB and the gyro, so he won't be able to re-grab it or use another one. You could also catch it, which prevents rob from using it altogether (though your options are somewhat limited, i.e. you can't use a lot of your attacks or you'll just throw the gyro).

>_> yeah what he said.

Except I'd like to elaborate on the last part: catching/holding it. If you take ROB's power and somehow catch or pick up his Gyro, you've just become Super Kirby (tm)

You can camp him with Beep! as easily as he can, and probably better. He can't use Gyro. You can throw it whenever you want (hold onto it though, and rack up some damage) You can use Final Cutter (decent as an aerial/ground attack because of the long disjointed blade, but punishable if you miss) you can use Hammers and Stones. Basically, be a bish and camp him like he does to you, and see how pissed he gets. You can also charge/use Fsmash by doing that special thing with holding A down and using the C-stick, but I find that awkward to do.

But yeah, camp him and rack up some damage, then throw the gyro at him and stuff.

Maybe I haven't played enough good ROBs (I lost to Holynightmare 2-1 once, but I 100% honestly think that I could have won, or at least done much better, offline...you see, I think ROB is high on the "lag tier" meaning he does much better online than offline, due to projectiles being harder to avoid in lag, among other reasons) but I think the matchup is close to even. 65-35 ROB is way too much, 60-40 at most. I would LOVE to play some good ROBs, so send me a PM before I leave for school on Monday.

Now I'll read the posts I haven't read and edit in anything else that I think of >_>

edit: ok after reading a bunch of stuff, and thinking back on my own personal experience and wifi johns, I'm going to put this matchup at 50:50 personally. I have long wondered why the Kirby boards have thought it such a huge disadvantage, and now I see that on paper, ROB beats Kirby in a ton of areas, but in practicality, Kirby has little to no disadvantage if he plays smart. Just because it works on paper doesn't mean it will work in an actual game

unless we're talking about Marth

I put it 60:40 ROB:Kirby .... on wifi

50:50 otherwise.

Until I face a ROB who truly impresses me by beating out all of Kirby's options, I likely won't put it anywhere farther than 55:45 on either side.

MK26 · Jan 17, 2009

Kirby is too easy to d-air spike if he has to use final cutter <-- figured this out today while playing my brother.

I basically threw offstage, lazer'd, f-air, d-air gimp at like 25%.

Dont use Final Cutter against ROB, onstage or offstage.

But looking back on this thread (read: Asdioh's post) the matchup is no worse than 45-55, and more than likely 50-50

~Gonzo~ · Jan 17, 2009

MK26 said:
Kirby is too easy to d-air spike if he has to use final cutter <-- figured this out today while playing my brother.

I basically threw offstage, lazer'd, f-air, d-air gimp at like 25%.

Dont use Final Cutter against ROB, onstage or offstage.

But looking back on this thread (read: Asdioh's post) the matchup is no worse than 45-55, and more than likely 50-50

sweet spot? lol or u can go under the lip of the stage and sweetspot the edge that way u can't get Dair spiked

Asdioh · Jan 17, 2009

I went to a tourney today.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to play any ROBs. Maybe I should go back and do some money matches in a bit >_>
Nah.

Anyway, G&W is lame.

Olimar is also lame, and should never have been put in Smash.

That's all I have to say.

MK26 · Jan 17, 2009

Asdioh said:
I went to a tourney today.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to play any ROBs. Maybe I should go back and do some money matches in a bit >_>
Nah.

Anyway, G&W is lame.

Olimar is also lame, and should never have been put in Smash.

That's all I have to say.

Any (aerial) hitbox goes through every single one of lolimar's attacks
And they hit him too :D
Attack olimar's pikminz 2 win
Unfortunately if u attack his pikmin attacks while grounded, u get 'omg imma clash wit u' lag while olimar doesnt
And sh over his grab, dsmash, fsmash, etc
Dont try to get a pikmin off your face with utilt...its morally degrading and useless at the same time
In other words...stay in the air. Even when you are touching ground, be in the air.
If olimar starts spamming dsmash, gtfo now foo!
Spam final cutter, it killz pikmins and doesnt afraid of anything

CPing G&W against olimar is too good <-- lol lil bro plucks 6 pikmins on platform on smashville , pikmin jump out and fall to main stage, i usmash them >:D and then grab him while he's plucking more pikminz
and g7w u-air sends pikmin flying forever and ever and ever and ever...but he started spamming whistle

We definitely need to do olimar next. i seriously dont care about MK at this point

EDIT: ITS OVER NINE HUNDREDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!
Too good of an opportunity to pass up.

fromundaman · Jan 17, 2009

Heh, CP JJ and Olimar is dead...

Lord Viper · Jan 17, 2009

lmao at Maestro's edit. XD

I guess it's ok to start Olimar.... wait.... WE DIDN'T START OLIMAR?!?

momochuu · Jan 17, 2009

Always take Olimar to Japes.

cAm8ooo · Jan 17, 2009

I CP frigate orpheon. It's pretty good against him.

MK26 · Jan 17, 2009

That last post put me in the lead for post count in this thread
http://www.smashboards.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=195032

KK I LIED:
kk i lie D:

Week 18: STILL NOT META KNIGHT YET, LOL

lolimar

i lol'd

Difficulty rating: lol-40

Asdioh · Jan 17, 2009

fromundaman said:
Heh, CP JJ and Olimar is dead...

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
Always take Olimar to Japes.

My counterpick didn't really matter: I beat him on Brinstar. I lost to him on the neutral (Halberd, yes i know there were 9 neutrals omgwtf) and lost to him on his Corneria (OMFG) cp.

Olimar is so cheap on Corneria >_>

cAm8ooo said:
I CP frigate orpheon. It's pretty good against him.

The thing is, I was getting advice before I played him, from some people and one guy that knows him. I was told Frigate's good because of no ledge on the right. Port Town was legal in this tourney, so I was thinking about going there. He banned it, but I was choosing Brinstar anyway.

I was also told that Fino does really well on Rainbow Cruise, so don't take him there.

My ban was Luigi's Mansion. In retrospect, now that I know how gay Olimar is on Corneria, I would have had a better time on Mansion, because of the high ceiling and jablock potential.

BLEH

MK26, you make it sound easy, but it's really not. His grab range is ridonkulous, and lagless with pivot grab. His pikmin spam will inevitably deal SOME damage. His Dsmash is too good at clearing around him. He hinders approaches from all angles:
- From the front: fsmash and side B, and downsmash
- From 45 degree angle in the air: Up B
- From above: upsmash

And for some reason, Olimar's Nair seems godlike to me. And his other aerials beat mine for some reason too.

He's just such a confusing character, and he racks up damage obscenely fast if he can pull off a combo. And he has little trouble killing.

I really need to practice with Olimar so I learn how to play him...now that I've learned Fox, I understand him better and know what to expect. Too bad Fox is one of Kirby's easiest matchups anyway >_>

It's just that I hate everything about Olimar, so I don't WANT to play him. -_-

here's the tourney I went to btw: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214333

Stage list:

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Delfino
Castle Siege
Halberd

Counter
Brinstar
Corneria
Distant Planet
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Green Greens
Mario Circuit
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld

momochuu · Jan 17, 2009

I just use ICs against Olimar. I refuse to do Kirby vs Olimar. I don't know that matchup at all.

Asdioh · Jan 17, 2009

Bunny I've already seen your signature a number of times, but I just now noticed that it has the words "will you" in yellow. Hard to read >_<

Why does your sig make you look so innocent when you're actually such a vicious Smasher :[

Kirby vs Ice Climbers: 50-50

cAm8ooo · Jan 17, 2009

So why does Japes work so well against Olimar. It seems to me Frigate would be better because of the no ledges on the entire right side of the map.

Lord Viper · Jan 17, 2009

Olimar is a powerful grounder, battling him on the ground is suicide if you don't want to get spammed with Pikmin on, don't forget that his grab is consider one of the best in the game, if you get grabed by a Blue Pikmin and your at 120ish, your dead by a B-Throw, a Purple one will kill you if your foe use an U-Throw. Over all, Olimar is a moster on the ground, but take it to the skys.... he's not so tuff but his N-Air, U-Air, and F-Air is trouble if you get hit buy it, don't forget the N-Air to U-Tilt. Olimar is very easy to gimp if he doesn't have any Purple Pikmin to throw at you when he's comming back, but his floatyness makes him able to come back if your not careful. Kirby is king of the skys when it comes to Olimar, a lot of people say that it's harder to beat Kirby than it is Meta Knight, (I don't know why so don't ask), and his light body make's him die to most of Kirby's strong attacks at a low percent. Also, watch out for his U-Smash, his key killing move, it's every fast, even if a yellow Pikmin hit's you, you might still die around a 100% if they charged it well.

I'll say over all, it's still in Kirby favor of 60-40.

Asdioh · Jan 17, 2009

cAm8ooo said:
So why does Japes work so well against Olimar. It seems to me Frigate would be better because of the no ledges on the entire right side of the map.

I'm not positive, but I've heard that he pretty much loses all his Pikmin if he gets in the water. So he can't really recover.

Plus, high ceiling. Olimars tend to get Star KOs a lot, so the high ceiling helps.

Oh yeah, and I learned today that certain stages increase the amount of certain types of Pikmin he'll pull up. Wtf?

~Gonzo~ · Jan 17, 2009

kawaii is a vicious smasher? uall should come out to some east coast tourneys, were gonna try and go to a Pennsylvania tourney sometime next week i think, uall should c if u can make it to that.

momochuu · Jan 17, 2009

Asdioh said:
Bunny I've already seen your signature a number of times, but I just now noticed that it has the words "will you" in yellow. Hard to read >_<

Why does your sig make you look so innocent when you're actually such a vicious Smasher :[

Kirby vs Ice Climbers: 50-50

This sig is actually 2 sigs, you just have to keep refreshing and they switch up. :D Lol

And the whole entire innocent thing is a trap, lmao.

100-0 Ice Climbers vs. Kirby

cAm8ooo said:
So why does Japes work so well against Olimar. It seems to me Frigate would be better because of the no ledges on the entire right side of the map.

The high ceiling makes Olimar's UpSmash less gay. If he falls in the water, he's done for. I just chaingrab spike him into the water and kill him at like 30%.

cAm8ooo · Jan 17, 2009

O yes, forgot about the water thing. Looks like ill be taking my olimars there now

Lord Viper · Jan 17, 2009

Don't forget Asdioh that Blue Pikmin can swim even in the Pikmin games, so all of the Pikmin will drowning except for the Blue one's. Also, I have to read more about how they get flowers on their heads.

momochuu · Jan 17, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
Don't forget Asdioh that Blue Pikmin can swim even in the Pikmin games, so all of the Pikmin will drowning except for the Blue one's. Also, I have to read more about who they get flowers on their heads.

I heard he actually gets STRONGER when his Pikmin are in bloom. Because Olimar really needs more strength.

...

Asdioh · Jan 17, 2009

Olimar's too complicated. You have to learn an entirely new playstyle to play as him, or against him. Not only that, but said playstyle is extremely annoying and stupid. PLUS he looks stupid.

And yeah, he has all these dumb quirks like the flowers sprouting from Pikmins' heads and how some Pikmin are more prevalent on some stages.

Thus why I think he should not have been in the first place. -_-

I also wish Diddy didn't have bananas...if he didn't, he would be a legit character.
I saw someone do the double banana chain on a MK earlier...twice. It's annoying to even WATCH, not to mention play against.

*throws banana*
*repeat*
*repeatx3*
*grab, throw*

*do it again a little while later*

momochuu · Jan 17, 2009

I use Ice Climbers against Diddy too. That matchup seems easier to me. *Shrug*

And Kirby vs. Diddy take FOREVER.

Asdioh · Jan 17, 2009

I should learn Ice Climbers.

Except I have too much honor to infinite >_>

So never mind.

Back to Olimar discussion: Final Cutter. I tried it a few times, it works fairly well, but it doesn't really put you in an advantageous situation. I mean, the landing lag IS SO FREAKING BAD that even if you do kill pikmin, or hit Olimar, with it, you can't followup.

So you can use it to space since it goes through Pikmin...and that's about it.

I wish Final Cutter didn't suck soooo bad.

Kirby said:
Eat-yeah! ATE!
*gets landing lag*

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