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The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!
- Thread starter MK26
- Start date
IC3R
Smash Lord
lol awesome.
I'm going to send my matchup summary to the IC boards to see if they have anything else to add. Wish me luck!
MK26
Smash Master
PM plz. I can't c/p something this awesome in forum quote formAwesome, R.O.B. is one of my mains
And lulz @ everyone loving my posts, well here's something else to love:
Any missing or neglected information, or unvoiced opinions are welcomed. Please don't hesitate to respond!
-IC3R, Official Star Warrior
And i already changed my avi and sig...-__-
Ok, lets say that the "Ideal Kirby" is at least up there with Chu (he can get you with Air hammer at whim and uses F-smash only once since, he kills you the first time he tries to). The Ideal Kirby must have a perfect Balance of being Airborne defensive, and attacking without any type of punishment gaps. The only nonpunishable attack is Bair Blah blah blah. You basically have to Spam Bair all the match and try to get a Clean F-smash when the %s' are right.
Btw, I was assuming both players where at "High Levels of Play." One thing is a High Level Kirby, which is a Hypothetical Player that has the Ideal Kirby. Another thing is Saying that Chudat probably doesn't fall for Grabs when he doesn't need to. And he probably will far into one eventually.
You'll get grabbed at least once if the Climbers player is Half Decent.
Thanks IC3R for the Pros and Cons list and stuff. Really helps to have it all organized and $hit. Good Job boi.
IC3R
Smash Lord
I win.
10winz
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Hmmm It's just hard for me to comprehend why some of you guys think this matchup is really bad for Kirby.
Theres gotta be some other Kirbies out there that think we have the advantage.
Theres gotta be some other Kirbies out there that think we have the advantage.
TheFast
Smash Lord
With IC chain grabs to up-smash even when they are limited to 4 a grab at damages as low as 40% will send our frail little body flying. That alone makes it a bad match up. We dont have projectiles so we have to fight close and we are bound to get grabbed.
lain
Smash Master
Uhhh I think Snake is the hardest matchup.
Diddy Kong can be but in all the confusion a grab can sometimes be obtained.
Metaknight theoretically counters IC's. I beat (most of) them :D
Diddy Kong can be but in all the confusion a grab can sometimes be obtained.
Metaknight theoretically counters IC's. I beat (most of) them :D
IC3R, part of the reason I mentioned Brinstar and Norfair is because of the platforms (very good for Kirby) and because the acid/lava rising from the bottom has saved me from chaingrab->Fair spike before. XD
I think it's in Ice Climber's favor on Final Destination or possibly Smashville, whereas it's around 50-50 on stages like Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.
And Kirby's favor on Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Brinstar...Luigi's Mansion? XD
I think Kirby has the advantage...depending on the stage.
I think it's in Ice Climber's favor on Final Destination or possibly Smashville, whereas it's around 50-50 on stages like Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.
And Kirby's favor on Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Brinstar...Luigi's Mansion? XD
A1lion835
Smash Champion
I think it's in kirby's favor if there's a stage which auto-kills Nana whenever she spawns.
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
This stage comes down to your CP as Kirby, and therefore it's important for you to win the first match in a set if possible, so if you lose on their CP, you can go to RC, Brinstar, or Norfair, the ones mentioned above by Kawaii Bunny.
MK26
Smash Master
So basically, you have to be better than your opponent if you want to win...sounds like a 40-60 to me.
Done with ICs, on to Bowser
gogogo
Done with ICs, on to Bowser
gogogo
A1lion835
Smash Champion
We already did bowser, but on the bowser boards. 60-40 us.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Yea, the Bowser boards were basicly was disscussing Kirby since last week ago. But I'll say the match up is ether 60-40 or 65-35 Kirby favor. ☆
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
lol 40-60
I'm not sure why I even try.
Hahaha I think you guys go in the complete opposite direction of any matchup I post my opinion on. Goes to show you IC3R, tourney placings don't mean anything.
Well, like I say for every matchup I'll just continue to play IC at 60-40 while you guys have fun at 40-60.
I'm not sure why I even try.
Hahaha I think you guys go in the complete opposite direction of any matchup I post my opinion on. Goes to show you IC3R, tourney placings don't mean anything.
Well, like I say for every matchup I'll just continue to play IC at 60-40 while you guys have fun at 40-60.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Eat him and shoot fire right back. You win. ^^
But really, it's not as simple as that. The Klaw is awesome in this matchup, and it wrecks a lot of things. I do agree on the 60-40 advantage though.
But really, it's not as simple as that. The Klaw is awesome in this matchup, and it wrecks a lot of things. I do agree on the 60-40 advantage though.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Grab him, it does really bad things to him.
Get him offstage, it also does really bad things to him.
Basically, Kirby's at an advantage when he gets a grab, when either character is in the air, or when Bowser is offstage. Also, Kirby with Fire Breath = awesome.
When both characters are on the ground, Kirby is at a disadvantage. Bowser's ground game wrecks.
60-40 Kirby >_>
A gimped Bowser is a dead Bowser.
Basically, Kirby's at an advantage when he gets a grab, when either character is in the air, or when Bowser is offstage. Also, Kirby with Fire Breath = awesome.
When both characters are on the ground, Kirby is at a disadvantage. Bowser's ground game wrecks.
60-40 Kirby >_>
A gimped Bowser is a dead Bowser.
MrEh
Smash Hero
That's pretty much it. Get him in the air, rack up damage. Grab him, rack up damage. Get him offstage, gimp him. He's not as easily gimped as Falcon or Dorf though. Bowser's recovery goes through everything. ^^
Abuse his blindspot below him as much as possible. If you meet him head on in the air, Klaw beats your Bair. Remember that the Klaw does tons of damage, which isn't good for a lightweight like Kirby. Plus, Bowser hits like a truck.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Boswer's not a matchup that I have too much experience with. Getting Bowser stuck in his own fire breath is pretty effective. Approaching Bowser seems to be the hard part about this matchup. From what I've seen many play really cautiously and very patient like. His neutral jab comes out quick and can interrupt combos. His ftilt I think punishes fairly well too. I agree with MrEh that it's best to try to get behind him but not by rolling lol. Rolling equals damage when it's towards them. Bowsercide is nothing to worry about for the most part, at least when he's ahead a stock at high damage since low damage equals control. End of match it might be something to look out for though. That's pretty much all I can think off. This is another match where it could be a little trick if you are having trouble getting inside.
All in all I do think it's Kirby's favor 60-40ish
All in all I do think it's Kirby's favor 60-40ish
IC3R
Smash Lord
I don't have much on this match-up, either.
*goes to lurk in the Bowser boards*
*goes to lurk in the Bowser boards*
B!squick
Smash Master
Fixed.
Now I don't play many Kirbys, but today I played one and I have to say it's easily 60/40 for Kirby. An up hill battle for Bowser but not unwinable in the slightest. While Kirby flies further than other memebers of the cast, he just floats back. x_x And Kirby's UpB is REALLY annoying when I get hit by the whole thing. I either suck at DIing/Air Dodging it, or Bowser can't escape the whole "combo." It's not something I was too worried about though. Most of the time I could shield or roll behind the other player and punish accordingly and from what I can tell, it's not one of Kirby's better moves. But **** does getting hit by it suck...
Anyway. Bowser is a big turtle with large hands and big feet (.... *cough*) and good Bowser players play accordingly. So make him approach and you're already halfway to winning. Now you just need to worry about reach... on the ground anyway.
As stated, Bowser's air game is meh at best. Somethings to watch out for though:
-FAir is fast,
-BAir has deceptive range,
-Klaw seems to make you gravitate towards it sometimes... like Bowser is using Force Pull or something... i.e. it's quite disjointed and has almost no landing lag,
-Kirby's DownB pretty well mitigates UAir,
-and Bowser's DAir is... well, it makes for a fancy spike if you can hit it, but for the most part, threats from below are USUALLY better delt with an Air Dodge, or DownB if a ledge is below.
Off stage, just watch out for Fortress (UpB) and its invincibility and priority. And on stage too. Actually, just watch out for the move period.
As far as stages go, if memory serves, Battlefield is his best neutral and I know for a fact that he was born on Norfair. Kirby would have a much better time there then the rest of the cast (except MK I think), but I think of that stage as my security blanket...
But, uh, anyway, probably Bowser's worst stage is Jungle Japes which is just ahead of Rainbow Cruise. The small ship portion is the only thing that saves it from being REALLY horrible as small stages are good for Bowser.
I think that's all you need to know without going over things that should be common knowledge. His shield is big and his OoS options are many and whatnot.
IC3R
Smash Lord
I found the Grab Release thread they have on the Bowser Boards. Here's the sections for Kirby:
Luckily, we have about as good a ground game against Bowser as he does us.
If we can get in close without getting grabbed or Klawed ourselves, we could combo up with our tilts and grabs. Also, the Whirling Fortress is a pain to deal with; it gets Bowser out of a lot of sticky situations. As for gimping it, we could attempt that Final Cutter Spike Cancel (the one where we have to have perfect timing to spike whoever and get hit by the recovery attack, canceling our dropping animation).
Stealing Bowser's Fire Breath is full of lawl...
This Grab Release thing could be a problem. Normally, we could just stay in the air to avoid getting grabbed, but Bowser has that ********-good Klaw. It's massively disjointed hitbox outprioritizes everything we have in the air
Luckily, we have about as good a ground game against Bowser as he does us. If we can get in close without getting grabbed or Klawed ourselves, we could combo up with our tilts and grabs. Also, the Whirling Fortress is a pain to deal with; it gets Bowser out of a lot of sticky situations. As for gimping it, we could attempt that Final Cutter Spike Cancel (the one where we have to have perfect timing to spike whoever and get hit by the recovery attack, canceling our dropping animation).
Stealing Bowser's Fire Breath is full of lawl...
MK26
Smash Master
ooh...can we utilt through the bowser bomb?
If timed right, you could clash stuff with Jab (if the attack doesn't have super armour frames and stuff).
B!squick
Smash Master
Off hand, I'm gonna say no. There's a good chance those attacks would hit first, but I really doubt they clash with it. You're much better off just avoiding it I think.
MrEh
Smash Hero
If Bowser is using the Fsmash correctly, then it shouldn't clank with anything.
I use Fsmash for two things: to throw people off with its massive disjointed hitbox, and Fsmash drawback counters. The drawback on the Fsmash is ****.
SmileyStation
Smash Journeyman
kirby is agile enough that he shouldnt be getting hit by the f-smash anyway. Or even near it for that matter.
B!squick
Smash Master
Oh?... Are you sure?... >:3
SmileyStation
Smash Journeyman
Im not tryin to be cocky or overconfident in my abilities against bowser or even in the bowser vs kirby matchup itself. But I feel that is a valid opinion. If you get hit by an F-Smash OFFLINE, then you did something wrong as kirby. Whether it was your spacing on your attacks or your lag after an attack that you prolly shouldnt have done. D-Smash, fine it happens, Up-B good counterattack. But getting hit by an F-smash is not playing smart. Keep in mind I respect all bowsers that play and im in no way bashin him as a main or anything.
B!squick
Smash Master
Down Smash? If you get hit by that then you're REALLY doing something wrong. Just be careful of the Gimpyfish combo. It's the best spot dodge in the game.
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
If he spams Bowser bombs, spam your stone.
If he spams Bowsercides, Kirbycide him back.
If he spams fire, spam 'im back.
If he spams UpB, fsmash. (i think that works.)
Bowser is weird. He's much easier to gimp with dair than DK, and the dair itself seriously messes with Bowsers. I've found Nair unusually useful in this matchup because of bowser's size, and is usually how I approach to get grabs.
If he spams Bowsercides, Kirbycide him back.
If he spams fire, spam 'im back.
If he spams UpB, fsmash. (i think that works.)
Bowser is weird. He's much easier to gimp with dair than DK, and the dair itself seriously messes with Bowsers. I've found Nair unusually useful in this matchup because of bowser's size, and is usually how I approach to get grabs.
IC3R
Smash Lord
^Could this work?
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
I'm pretty sure Bowser was on Gonzo's list, but the startup for it is really fast and the duration is really short so I don't know if it would be worth trying.
Edit: Yes, he CAN be FC spiked.
Edit: Yes, he CAN be FC spiked.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Not to interrupt the discussion but I've stopped Bowser's fsmash with Ike's jab... I'll say I clanked with the first hit of fsmash.
MrEh
Smash Hero
That's using the Fsmash incorrectly.
The first hitbox will only be used when you abuse the Fsmash drawback. The disjointed part goes through like, everything.
TheFast
Smash Lord
The Up-B spike is a legit tactic. At yesterdays tourney I Killed a Fox players 1st life than he spiked me at 160% I was at the bottum with no jumps but my up-b could of made it back. Because the Fox spiked me while FFing he had to use his up-b to get back. I used up b facing away to cancel out his 1st up- so he was forced to start a second one than got hit by the downward hit. Laggy start up plus quick thinking led to a 20% death and a stock lead. As for bowser would sugest doing it on the stage away from it but where you land on it, trying to catch him right before he grabs the ledge but not killing yourself. Also i think If bowser where to go just over the edge this stratigy of spiking might just cause him to grab the ledge in most situations. Do characters cancel the up-b spike with the ledge???