Match-up discussion #13: Diddy Kong

Diddy Kong is our next match-up...

Tell me what you think about him

This is pretty much agreed to be Wolfs advantage. Diddys bananas can be picked up via dash attack or fair as well as reflected by Shine (Note: Don't use Shine to reflect them though! Most diddys will make use of the lag afterwards!!!) and KOing is a big issue for him. Expect to live up to 120%, unless you get spiked or Edgeguarded (Diddy can do that quite well...). Diddy has more priority usually but Wolf wins in range so - not surprising - spacing is the key to win here...

60:40 Wolfs favour...

Discuss!

Yea wolfs favor 60/40 is my opinion.

I'd probably agree with 60:40 for Wolf. I recently played a Diddy Kong at a tournament, I just stayed away from the bananas and shot off the blaster (I found the blaster to be extremely important)whenever he was camping by them. I counterpicked Battlefield, because of platforms obviously, and just jumped down off a platform and bair'd him a little when he decided to camp. Killing is a huge issue for him also, when you're getting to a high percent, spot dodge all day and punish that fsmash. Just space everything well and stay away from the bananas, it should be cake-ish.

Diddy is about knowing how to avoid getting owned by the bananas for the most part. While there are plenty of strings he can get you into for building damage and that little chainthrow he has with two bananas and the backthrow and the sideB kick cancelled by the ledge into the spike, his killing options are pretty mediocre and his range is less than wolf's.

Use shine as a counter, not for bananas. Get bananas with 0 lag fair, and then do what you will. Know that diddy has better options for banana control so its probably best to throw them offstage. Also watch out for peanut gun gimps when recovering. There's definitely an advantage for wolf here, as long as the wolf can handle bananas. 60:40

Wolf can do a 40% damage banana string pretty easily. Higher damage strings/combos may exist for him.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on guys. We're assuming that we're playing a SMART Diddy Kong, as in, is going to mix up his banana games, not going to make it predictable or easy to take care of, if you have a predictable Diddy, then odds are you're playing a bad one >_>

The fact of the matter is, that his Bananas aren't going to be a walk in the park to take care of, SH Fair all the DK (Diddy Kong) needs to do is mixup the timing to throw you off, reflector is pretty obvious, SH Airdodge same thing, all the player has to do is mixup the timing and he should be good with getting banana hits on you. Along with mixing up the timings, the DK can also choose to throw them down or up and dribble them back and forth waiting for a good opportunity to finally throw it at you. Not to mention they have so many other options after that. Taking care of Diddy's bananas is NOT a walk in the park.

On the killing matter, a good Diddy shouldn't have a problem with thise. While Fsmash is very easily DIed to safey, his Dsmash is an entirely different story guys, one hit, and a fresh Dsmash can do a lot of damage. Not to mention, Diddy has an excellent off stage game, he has like 3 different spikes. On top of that, all he needs to do is Fair your recovery and your getting edgehogged for the KO. And Diddy can place you off the stage REALLY well due to his throws, they have EXCELLENT positioning.

Range...on the ground, Wolf outranges Diddy, however spacing is a pain with bananas >_<

But in the air, it's a tad differet, I feel that his Fair has nearly as much range as Wolf's Bair, Not to mention all of Diddy's other aerials start up really fast and have about the same range as Wolf's, maybe a little less, However Wolf does dominate Diddy in the area of aerial mobility.

I call 50:50. Diddy has a slightly harder time killing than Wolf, their aerial range is about the same, but those bananas... DK has too many options with those. Otherwise I'd call it Wolf's advantage.

Arc, I think you're misinterpreting my point. 60:40 by no means implies, that Diddy is a pushover. However, Diddy has a very hard time to beat Wolf - in this case it's easier for Wolf to KO Diddy, than the other way round...

Well, we're assuming the wolf player knows how to deal with bananas too. I mean, bananas are still the biggest problem in this matchup, but if you're as good as the diddy they shouldn't completely screw you. As long as you know the matchup fairly well and have banana experience, you have a slight advantage. Compared to many other characters, wolf can counter diddy's bananas pretty well, the only problem is the lack of real glide-tossing IMO.

But agreed, his dsmash will be getting some kills. At high %s his ftilt can kill, don't know how common this is, but I saw it in a japanese brawl video somwehere so something to keep in mind.

Wolf may not have a glide toss, but he has a pretty **** good Item Boost.

Gheb, you may want to get some input from the Diddy board, so they can predictably tell us how easy it is to gimp Wolf and that he loses to Diddy 60/40 or worse. This is the patented response from top, high, and even some mid tier character boards.

Ishieymoro said:

Well, we're assuming the wolf player knows how to deal with bananas too. I mean, bananas are still the biggest problem in this matchup, but if you're as good as the diddy they shouldn't completely screw you. As long as you know the matchup fairly well and have banana experience, you have a slight advantage. Compared to many other characters, wolf can counter diddy's bananas pretty well.

Click to expand...

Of course, a good Wolf player will know HOW to deal with bananas, it's just a matter of execution, whether or not the Wolf actually DOES deal with the bananas.

On the subject of how well Wolf deals with bananas... yes, Wolf has more options than most characters, HOWEVER, I'd like to say it's not as simple as "Reflector when diddy throws a banana" or "SH Fair when he's about to glidetoss" Unless you have super-human reaction time (Lol computers) then that strategy isn't going to work, you're going to have to use your options based on when you PREDICT Diddy will throw his bananas, and if you start catching a banana or two, he has nearly the same options to get it back (SH Airdodge, dash attack) And if you start catching them, he's not just going to keep on throwing it where you can catch it, he's going to mix up is timing to throw you off. Let me give an example, Wolf vs GaW, game and watch has a deadly counter to Wolf's blaster, the bucket. However, Wolf players STILL use lasers against him, and aren't punished nearly as much as THEY SHOULD.
If it were that easy to predict it, then Wolf wouldn't use lasers against GaW.

Just an example, but you guys should get my point. The Wolf STILL has those options PRESENT, and he still has the KNOWLEDGE of HOW to counter the bananas, however, simple timing can PUNISH those attempts at predicting the bananas, since you don't know exactly when a Diddy will throw his bananas.

All that being said, I think it's fairly obvious that this entire matchup revolves around countering Diddy's bananas,, because that's really his only reliable approach. Unfortunately, the banans aren't easy to counter.

WITHOUT the bananas, I feel this would be in Wolf's favor, Wolf's aerial game and ground game simply beat out Diddy's (Bananas aside). If Diddy is below the stage, his recovery is stupidly predictable, you can usually get a well timed Dsmash off in order to kill in that situation, however, that's only if the Diddy manages to get below the stage (A good way to do this imo is to hit him with a laser, takes away his jump =D ) However, Diddy still has an excellent off stage game as well....

So all in all, I call the match-up even. Without the bananas, Wolf easily has the advantage 60:40. I'd say easily has 65:35 but Diddy has an off-stage game that's decent. So eh, if you're facing a Diddy where you can counter the bananas, great for you, you now have the advantage. However, if you're playing a smart Diddy, that won't predictable throw his bananas and will mix up his timings, then it's even.

Turbo Ether, the match-up has already been discussed on the Diddy boards (I was there myself) and Diddy players agreed. You can look it up...

Oh.

The semi-combo I mentioned earlier works if they fail to tech your down throw. It works at 20% and above.

Item Boost a banana into Diddy, he trips. Pivot grab him during his trip stun/lag. Grab pummel. Downthrow him into the banana, he trips again. DACUS him during his trip stun/lag. This does 40% damage fresh if you get in five grab pummels.

Item Boosting basically mimics glide tossing, for those that didn't know. Just DACUS while holding a non-melee item, to do it.

If you play really good diddy players, reflector is useless against bananas. The whole fight becomes a total mess. You can attempt to 0lag fair catch the bananas, but remember one little mistake leads to a high damage juggle. It's not even worth it a lot of the time unless you feeling cocky.

Follow a simple rule when fighting good diddy's. If two bananas are out on the ground in his reach. Spam non-stop. He won't be able to do anything. Just make sure that you establish that you will spam him mercilessly if he tries to set up banana technique. Blaster owns his bananas.

Once he gives up trying to juggle with double bananas, go and fight him. The matchup is in your favor. Just make sure diddy never ever gets comfortable with the bananas and its 60/40 wolf's favor.

Oh yeah, Blaster is good here too of course

Wolf's blaster helps in nearly every matchup lol.

If someone techs your Dthrow isn't it a chaingrab, I did it 2 a lvl 7 CPU?

Not if they tech left/right.