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DMG's Wario Guide Stuff Blah Stuff

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
I have decided to make a fully dedicated Wario guide instead of just doing matchups. It might take me awhile to polish this bad boy up, but trust me I will work on this a lot.



FANTASTIC WARIO GUIDE!



Table of Contents
1.0 Introduction
1.1 Overview of Wario
1.2 Costumes
1.3 Gameplay
1.4 Frame Data
1.5 Matchups
1.6 Stages
1.7 Conclusion







__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




1.0 INTRODUCTION


Welcome to the amazing World of Wario. I'm glad you are interested in learning more about this fascinating beast. If you have stumbled upon this thread through a most definitely divine inspiration, then you are welcome as well. However, wary are we of those who come to seek knowledge to exploit the mystic beasts weaknesses. If thy indeed is embarking on such a quest, then I shall proceed to proclaim across these boards to gtfo.

~/~/~ DMG



HERE THERE BE MONSTERS!

~Fiction


Why am I not included in the intro? </3 DMG.
~Phantom X

stnapknah (7:45:10 PM): btw
stnapknah (7:45:16 PM): put me in the
frickin guide
~Stnapknah

Sup guys I heard there was a Party here on the Wario boards? Count me in.
~Futile

Did somebody say "Super Bike Wheelie Glitch"? I perfected that you know.
~Morphed Chaos

OMG OMG OMG FUTILE IS HERE? WHY DIDN'T YOU GUYS TELL ME?
~3GOD

I am the real God
~God

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




1.1 OVERVIEW OF WARIO



Wario is obviously an unusual character. He is short of stature, yet one of the heaviest characters in the game. His reach is poor, yet he has some of the best killing moves in the game. He moves too fast for a fat man. He's a speed demon that is known as the Ungrabbable Mage of the South. With one good read, he can easily take you from 0%-over 50% in 2 seconds flat. There's no place he is in danger at, with his trusty choppah and graceful gliding in the skies. Wario is like a Glass Cannon, except made of titanium steel... That oddly smells like s***.

He is much better in the air than on the ground, as you may have noticed, but his ground game is not to be ignored. With a 6 frame grab that quite frankly is beast, an amazing Forward Smash, and other tricks up his sleeve, Wario is no slouch on the ground either.

Heed my advice young ones, Wario is no easy mare to tame. Few will ever be able to find the key to his fat heart and soul. This road is not one to take if you are easily discouraged. There are bountiful amounts of other characters to use that are much easier than Wario, do not forget that, but embrace it and let it make you a better player overall.

And with that, I encourage you to eat with your Wario, sleep with your Wario, brush your teeth with your Wario, hell do it with your GF... AND Wario. Let the bond develop, trust in him, let him heal your Brawling pains. One day in the distance, when the sun sets over the horizon, you will look at your Wario and thank me for giving you insight on taking it to the next level.





__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




1.2 COSTUMES





Yes, I know, this is the same pic that Blue Shell has. I will use a different one in a bit, trust me.



__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




1.3 GAMEPLAY



Let me start this off by stating right off the bat that there is no scientifically best way to play Wario. I've had fairly good success with my style, while people like Reflex, Fiction, Afro Thundah, etc have had success as well with their own respective styles. Instead of copying what we do move for move (not only is this hard to do as Wario, but most characters in general need more than just a player copying vids to get good with them), go play him a little and figure out why we choose certain moves in certain situations.
Try to understand that while I might back off or wait in certain circumstances, where Fiction or Reflex might rather decide to try to pound someone in the ground fast, that these are just differences in styles we have, that it's ok for the Wario community to have all sorts of players with different ideas and playstyles, that this makes our character not only more enjoyable but more interesting and possibly even better competitively. So don't over think how you are playing as Wario when you see me running out the clock excessively on someone and then see Fiction brutalizing someone within 5 seconds lol. It's all good, trust me.


Now, honestly a lot of people have come up to me and asked me how to play as Wario, and it's not an easy answer. I mean, sure I can tell you general tips like Dair is amazing, that his airdodge is good and that you can use time to your advantage, but I've not been able to formulate a good way of explaining the subtle things I notice whenever I play against people. I can tell you that a lot of my stuff is player specific, but what good will that do you when the chance of you playing my friends, my other competitors in my region, is small? My best alternative is to just give you a lot of insight into his general gameplay and hopefully let you figure out how to adjust from each player.


Let's start with his ground game. You have his tilts, which are for the most part alright. You have his Smashes, Fsmash is the only notable one if you haven't guessed that already but Usmash and Dsmash are not entirely useless either. You have his Jab, which links nicely into a grab or Fsmash, just know that they can SDI/DI this or escape the follow ups from the first jab if they predict it right.
His Grab is fantastic, I cannot stress enough how good his grab is. It comes out in 6 frames, making it one of his fastest moves period, and it's reach is surprising as well. Not to mention that his actual throws, namely Fthrow and Dthrow, either deal a nice chunk of damage (13% on Fthrow fresh) or can lead into follow ups (Dthrow lands them right next to you, leading to a myriad of options).


Now his air game. You have the godly Dair, so good for many reasons. Does a lot of damage, keeps them near you at lower %'s (combo's into Fsmash, grab, Waft and even another Dair if you are fast enough), and it has a most definitely acceptable lag window. His Uair does even more damage than Dair, pops them up a bit in the air, and has a surprising hitbox like most of Wario's moves. Fair and Bair are great pokes, fairly good to edgeguard with, and they create some interesting combo's given the proper spacing and timing. Nair has two hits, making it useful to hitting spotdodgers, it has low landing lag so you can land with Nair if you feel like you need some breathing space, and it's just an overall nice move that meshes well with Wario as a character and personality figure (fat man spinning in the air always draws a laugh lol).


On to his specials. His bike on the ground is kinda just ok, you are left vulnerable sometimes if you hit someone's shield while biking towards them since it has low shield stun, but it does make for a nice projectile shield most of the time. In the air it is a valuable asset to recovering. It's not always necessary to survive, but it's nice to have multiple options on handling recovery. His Chomp is a very unique move, being the only hold-out grab in the game. It's very common for it to trade hits or even completely out prioritize alright to badly spaced moves. It's also basically the only air grab of it's kind in the game.
Down B, otherwise known as Wario's Waft, is a devastating move depending on the timing. After about 55 seconds, you can
use the Waft and expect fairly good knockback. The longer you hold it in, the stronger it gets damage wise, the further Wario will travel on his "poot" path, and the more knockback it will do. The exception to this is the full waft, which has amazing vertical knockback but if hit at the base it's horizontal knockback cannot match that of a Poot initiated at, say the 1:30 mark. And now his Upb, which is Wario's absolute last resort when he is recovering. It doesn't automatically sweetspot the edge, which usually isn't that big of a problem with how well Wario recovers normally, but it does tend to get annoying to Upb just a tad too high and eat a Fsmash or Spike. It also is a nice OOS surprise move, but it does seem fairly easy to SDI or even try to normally DI out of, so use with caution.


Approach wise, Dair is usually best. It's safe usually, does a lot of hits, lot of damage, and has a small frame disadvantage.
You can approach with other moves, and certainly the move to use depends on where they are positioned, but you usually can't go wrong with Dair.


Defensively, Wario is amazing. His shield I would say is better than average, since it covers him surprisingly well, it lasts a long time, he doesn't slide very far in his shield which I think is usually better than sliding a far distance (see Luigi and not so much but still sliding a bit with IC's), and I think it can take hits fairly well. His spotdodge is amazing as well, works on frame 2 and leave him vulnerable for only 5 frames at the end. Plus he looks cool doing it lol. His ability to weave in
and out is also good if you isolate the "in" part lol. Basically, he is very good at what many have deemed as "air camping" where Wario just tries to stay away from his opponent for longer periods of time, usually in the air, to gain an advantage through the timer or ultimately win on time. Many have criticized this as boring and overly tedious, and it's honestly a bit of both for most people. However, if you have the patience to put up with "air camping" then you have another tool in your arsenal to utilize, and having another option can't really hurt a character ya know.


Overall, Wario is a nice air character who is still solid on the ground and thrives in defensive and offensive conditions. He can be a berserk one second and calmly jump around for 5 minutes the next. He can stay in the air all day or he can decide to take lovely strolls towards you and surprise you with BAM Dtilt lol. No matter how you decide to play as Wario, just have fun with him. It's possible to be very competitive with him and still enjoy the simple pleasures of Crawling backwards or taunting or even farting over and over for no reason. This is why we love the fat man.




__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




1.4

-Ground game

Wario's ground game is still good, but not as great as his air game. A good Wario can mix up both the air and ground game to make himself unpredictable, which helps Wario's style. Note, this is a few basics, if you think of another strategy with some moves, PM me them.



-Jab
First jab: 22 frames
hitbox on frame 8
2nd jab starts on frame 17 (fastest possible jab)
Both jabs is a total of 38 frames

Wario's jab is not his fastest move, but it is by far one of the more useful. This move has moderate range for his moves, but you can jab cancel into a Fsmash (A PhantomX special). You can also Jab cancel into a grab. If you continue the jab, Wario will step forward, which can mess up some opponent's spacing. Don't go spamming your jab though, its only good when the opponent isn't expecting it, and many characters have faster jabs. (ZSS has a 1 frame jab, Ike has a 4 frame jab, Snake has a 5 frame, ext...) Overall, the jab is fine, and can lead into many nice kills.


-Dash Attack
Total frames: 49
Hit on frame 4

This is Wario's fastest move, but one of his worst due to the massive lag afterwords. This can be used to pursue an opponent if you need it and it'll get them in the air, but use this move very sparingly.



-Ftilt
total: 36 frames
hit on frame 14

This move is a killer at around 155%, and has the most range out of all of Wario's moves. This move can be angled up or down, up for more knockback, down to hit smaller characters or characters crouching (But your better off using the Dtilt). You can easily chain this move to your air combos or use it for spacing. Better saved for a surprise kill move, but its still good. Due to the weird lag on this move, you can also use it to punish sidesteppers.



-Dtilt
Total: 33 frames
hit on frame 5

This move has very good range, second only to the Ftilt, and is Wario's 2nd fastest move. This move can challenge and beat MK's Dtilt, one of his favorite spacing moves. This move is very good for continuing an air combo upon landing, as it can shield poke easy. Overall a very good ground move, and very fast too.



-Utilt
Total: 36 frames
hit on frame 9

This move isn't as good as Wario's other tilts, its range is about as big as the jab, but it hits in front and behind Wario, and launches the opponent into the air, exactly where we want him/her! This move is also somewhat of a taunt, as c'mon, its Wario RAISIN' THE ROOF! This tilt can be buffered from the ending lag of a Nair to make for a good combo if the opponent can't shield in time, but you might want to jump instead. Overall an alright move.



-Fsmash
total: 44 frames
Hit on frame 9
SUPER ARMOR: frame 8-11

This is Wario, nuff said. This is his signature shoulder slam, and its a beast. This move has great knockback, and can KO at about 120%. It also has SUPER ARMOR, which can save your life or guarantee a hit. If you can time the SA frames, you can totally negate the knockback of a kill move. If you need to, you can also use the SA frames to go through an opponent's move as well. The SA frames are the frames when Wario moves forward. You can also shutter step (quickly tilt the opposite direction your going to smash, then Cstick smash in the direction you were going to Fsmash.) for extra distance. A very great move.



-Dsmash
Total: 78 frames
First hit on frame 8 (behind Wario)

This isn't a good move compared to Wario's other ground moves, in fact, its worse then the dash attack, but still has its uses. The hitbox lingers for a long time, but with reduced knockback, and it sends people diagonally or to the side. Only use this if you know it'll hit the opponent and will push them away from you, otherwise expect to be punished hard. This can also punish sidestep rollers besides Lucario, so theres a use right there.



-Usmash
Total: 46 frames
First hit on frame 11-21
Able to be DACUS

Now, this is possibly the only good use for the dash, to DACUS it into an Usmash. (DACUS stands for Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash) to DACUS, the easiest way is to run, push the Cstick down, then immediately after press Z and up on the control stick, if you do it right, Wario will slide very far with his Usmash. Not as far as Snake, but its still a good distance. The Usmash itself is alright, but a good opponent can SDI out of it before its over. Best use is for DACUS.


-Wario's Air game

THIS is what makes Wario. Wario is a great air fighter, due to his amazing air speed and acceleration. Wario can literally float like a butterfly in the air. You want to use primary air moves when fighting with Wario, as they are just TOO good!



-Nair
Total frames: 49
First hit on frame 4
second hit on frame 15-38

This is Wario's fastest aerial, and a great OOS (Out of Shield) option. This aerial also has the least landing lag of all Wario's aerials, so its safe to land using this one. Remember, while using this aerial, you can move through the air, so you can use it to chase people or whatever, just note it has somewhat short range. A very good move.



-Fair
Total frames: 37
Hit on frame 5
Auto cancels after frame 26

This move isn't very good compared to Wario's other aerials. It has the most gimpability out of all the aerials, and thats what its used for, besides maybe dodging and poking at someone. The hitbox will stay until the move can be auto canceled. A good aerial for gimping and poking as you can retreat early, but not his best. You can also use it to space, as it is very fast, main use is to poke and gimp.



-Bair
total: 49
First hit on frame 9
Auto cancels after frame 33

This move is Wario's spacing aerial, and is great to use against Marth, it has good reach, but terrible landing lag. Don't SHFF with this aerial unless you want to stand the chance of being punished. This does good damage, and you can do retreating Bairs if you need to play defensively. And remember, this has good reach.



-Uair
Total: 47 frames
First hit on frame 8
Auto cancels after frame 36

This is one of your kill moves, and a very powerful one. It is not the best Uair, but its better then Ike's for killing. You can add this to your air combos early in the stock, or save it for a kill move. The hitbox is Wario, even his backside, so you can time it to hit grounded opponents too. This can kill around 120%, less on light characters. Use this alot on heavy characters, it racks up the damage.



-Dair
Total: 37
First hit on frame 9-21
Auto cancels after frame 24

THIS is what Wario is known for besides the waft. This is your combo move, and it eats shields alive. You can use this aerial to poke or whatever. This is best to start a combo into something like a bite, its very powerful. There isn't much to say, one of Warios best moves.


-Wario's Specials

Wario has some nice specials, his Up B isn't that good, but otherwise his specials are very good. He also has the most powerful killing special that isn't stupidly hard to land (Ike's eruption comes to mind.)



-UpB
Frame 6-28

This is a bad move to use for attacking, as a good opponent can SDI out of it and punish you, its also a last resort for recovery, as its range isn't that good. Use only if its what'll save you, and remember, it doesn't auto sweetspot the ledge. (Wario's double jump doesn't auto sweetspot either >.<)



-SideB
Discussed in a later section.



-Neutral B
Total: 45-95 frames
Grabs on frame 8-27, 73

This is an incredibly good move, its a grab, so you can trade hits with some attacks. (Such as DK's wind up punch if your next to him when he does it) To trade attacks with it, you have to make sure their hurtbox touches the bite's hitbox. This move is a great followup to an air combo, and it can't be shielded. Use this to punish sidesteps and shielders. And another plus, it can eat items, and is very fast at doing it, use this to eat your bike if its still onstage or whatever you want to do. Its very versatile and easily one of his best moves.



-DownB
First Attack Frame:
Charge Level Zero (about 0:00 – 0:17): Trips on Frame 16 (no damage)
Charge Level One (about 0:17 – 0:57): Frame 10
Charge Level Two (about 0:57 – 1:50): Frame 5
Charge Level Three (Full Charge): Frame 9 (Super Armor Frames 5-10)
Knockback:
Charge Time…..Mario KO% (at the center of FD with no DI)
0:56…..………..187 (Useless)
0:58…..………..98
1:00…..………..95
1:05…..………..92
1:10…..………..85
1:15…..………..81
1:20…..………..76
1:25…..………..72
1:30…..………..67
1:35…..………..62
1:40…..………..60
1:45…..………..55
1:50…..………..52
Full…..………...96
Full Charge: from startup of any Waft to Full Charge = 6697 frames (1:51.729 seconds) (copied word for word 3GOD)

This move is Wario's best KO move and can kill at very low percentages. The Haft waft has more knockback then a full waft, and is best used about 1minute 30 secons into the match. Try to master landing the haft waft, it can KO at very very early, it can KO MK at around 52% from the middile of FD with good DI if done right. If it does get fully charged, it has SA frames and does 42 damage. If Wario hits the opponent while going up, it can do some serious knockback as well, but not as much damage. This is such a great move, don't waste it. To land it easily, do it in the air, not on the ground. Remember, it can kill at very low percentages at the side of FD.


-Wario's grab game.

Wario has an average grab game, his grab isn't the longest reaching, but its pretty fast, and you can do some nice damage with his throws.



Grab frames
Standing -6
Dashing -10
Pivot -8
Note, this is faster then some jabs.



-Pummel
This pummel is average, but for what it does, its halarious. Wario doesn't actually punch them, but touches them in a place not many like to be touched.... With a finger. Its just so weird. Use this move to refresh your other moves.



-Bthrow
This throw isn't Wario's best damager, but you can use it to get the person offstage if needed. Best use your other throws. I almost never use this throw, you shouldn't either.



-Fthrow
This is Wario's best throw, it deals very good damage and has good knockback, and can kill at the edge of FD at around 130%. A good throw. Absolutely wrecks light characters in the long run.



-Uthrow
This throw is alright to use, it gets them in the air and deals alright damage. The biggest thing is that against some characters, you can Uthrow to SH full waft and hit them on the way up.



-Dthrow
This throw is weird, it can be used as a psuedo Chaingrab on some characters like Ganon. Wario makes the opponent appear behind him, so turn around and grab quickly. You can also Dthrow to DACUS, which is a great combo.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




1. 5 MATCHUPS



The numbers on the left side of the colon pertain to Wario, and those on the right side of the colon pertain to the opposing character. If it says 60 : 40, then Wario has the advantage. If it says 40 : 60, it means the opponent has the advantage, and etc. Also, to make it easier, I will color code the matchups and put a +, -, or = sign as well. The ones with question marks in parenthesis at the end means that I would need more input on that character to get a good estimate.[/COLOR]



Green means Wario has the advantage ---> + sign

Yellow means the matchup is fairly even or close enough to even ---> = sign

Red means Wario has a disadvantage ---> - sign

Purple means OM NOM NOM ---> OMFG OVER 9000 OM NOM NOM'S




Images are temporary, I will replace them with cooler pics when I have more time.


Bowser: + 60 : 40


WELL let's start with Bowser. He can infinite you out of either grab release. Just try to get to the edge and force ground release/call stalling if he doesn't pummel. You get to CG him though which is where your advantages kicks in. This MU isn't too awful for Bowser IMO, but it's not a lot of fun because of how huge he is and basically guaranteed combos into grab suck for him.

Likelihood of you facing a quality Bowser in tournament? Lol





Captain Falcon: + 55 : 45 / 5 : 5


Falcon is surprising for Wario to deal with. It's a weird MU and getting grab released sucks for Wario. Gives Falcon free hits, free kills. We have a CG on him, doesn't last for too long but it's a nice damage racker. Goes up to 50-70 I think?




Diddy Kong: + 55 : 45


Bananas are the name of his game, try to stay in the air where you can't trip. He has better priority in the air, but he's much more vulnerable if he misses an attack so be ready to bait and counter attack. Only eat his Bananas if it is safe to do so, him glide tossing it towards you would be an example of a not safe situation. Don't be afraid of getting aggressive on edgeguarding, be aware of when Diddy can setup a kill on you, and just overall play it safe if you aren't sure about getting guaranteed punishment. This is a very TEDIOUS MU!!!!!!!!!!

U gotta camp Diddy whenever possible. Taking him to large/janky stages absolutely wrecks him because of how hard it is to catch Wario. RC, Brinstar, Lylat, Delfino maybe. Ban FD probably.





DK: + 65 : 35 / 60 : 40



He has better range than you easily, and he can reasonably compete with your power, so be afraid of getting hit by anything period lol. He can grab release you into a smash, while you have a dthrow CG that is hard/probably impossible to escape til 110%. He is a big target for Combo's, you can pull some ridiculous stuff like Dair to Uair to Chomp to Boost Smash. He's hard to edgeguard successfully, so save your kill moves when you can.

Bair is easier to deal with if you are grounded. DK ground game is what should scare you the most however because of pivot grabs/mobility.He has good range in the air but he has a bit of trouble following Wario vertically in the air, and he leaves himself open if he tries to intercept you while you jump around.




Falco: = 45 : 55 / 50 : 50


CG, Lasers, Phantasm, and Shine are all things you have to look out for. The biggest thing to realize is that Falco has a hard time killing if he doesn't get you with CG to spike (rarely happens but it can). Even if he tacks on % from lasers, it's all fine as long as you avoid his kill moves. He is light, and his recovery is vulnerable to edgeguarding (sorta... mostly gotta bait him to react too early). His defensive options can be limited up close with Chomp (besides Jab, his Jab rules Wario's world), no need to worry too much about spotdodge to grab or Dsmash. You do have to watch for Fsmash and Usmash as well, especially if he does tag you with a laser or two up close. I cannot stress this enough, he has a HARD time KILLING you. Abuse it the best you can. :)

U can kinda sorta camp Falco, depending on what stage you get. Brinstar is great pick, I think RC is pretty safe as well. Ban FD if you can, not too fun fighting Falco there. With Brinstar and RC banned usually these days, you got a rough time ahead of you. Avoid FD and possibly BF please.





Fox: + 55 : 45 / 60 : 40


Fox is an interesting character, he has obvious combo's like Utilt chains and Dair to another move, and he has more subtle ones like Nair to Jab to Grab. He struggles a bit facing Wario since he is so fast and versatile in the air, and since he is really good at punishing even slight mess ups on Fox's part. He's heavy and hard to kill especially if you SDI his Dair and escape it before he can follow up. He does have a laser but he can't really seriously camp you unless you maybe pick a banned stage like Hyrule Temple lol. Fox's ground game is the biggest threat hands down. YOU FOX PLAYERS STOP USING FAIR DAIR etc to beat Wario you need more focus on more grounded options.

Just stay in Fox's face and don't get hit by anything powerful from him. Good stages are BF, RC, Brinstar, Japes, and Frigate. Ban whatever stage you feel like you do terrible on. FD would probably be my ban these days.

Ganondorf: + 65 : 35 / 70 : 30


Ganon is... Ganon. Get up close to him, hit him, and stay on his butt. Don't get grabbed, which is fairly easy with his tiny grab range. Ganon can grab release infinite you, along with general grab release stuff. Avoid the grab and mash if you do get grabbed for the love of god. WE CAN CG HIM and that gives us a good edge along with general Wario bullcrap.

Good stages are Smashville, BF, Lylat, RC, Brinstar, Japes, YI, and a lot more. Ban FD if you want, Wario can win even on FD but it's easier to not hassle with it.



Ice Climbers: 45 : 55



Hit them and run like hell. I am not kidding, don't try to keep approaching them once you get a lead. U will be kicking yourself for trying to do more damage to them when you get grabbed and lose a stock or take 70+ damage. Just run around a lot in the air and if they try to approach you then either keep your distance or bait them while still in the air and punish..... and then run the hell away lol.

Good stages are anything for the most part, stages like RC, Brinstar, Japes, and the such are absolute **** vs them since you can run around so easily on those maps and get away with it. Ban FD on them. GOD this MU sucks without RC Brinstar LOL.

(I think Wario loses slightly but I know others might disagree, gonna go over this a lot)

IKE: + 55 : 45 / 60 : 40


Ike is... JAB JAB JAB! You can punish his jabs up close and this forces him to do mixups out of Jabs. Jab happy Ikes lose unless they mix it up.

He has the range advantage but you have the speed advantage up close. Killing is roughly the same, he can GR infinite you so mash if you get grabbed (it's a pivot grab infinite, not too many Ike's know it on Wario I think). Up close you win, Jab is his only competing option.

I play this somewhat conservatively as far as edge guarding goes, Bassem or Reflex would probably have better insight on aggressive offstage options. I let Ike get to the edge, and then focus on trapping him. Onstage I focus on making him aerial/do something incorrect and then punish.






JIGGLYPUFF: 60 : 40











King Dedede: 40 : 60 / 35 : 65










KIRBY: 55 : 45 / 60 : 40











LINK: + 60 : 40










LUCARIO: 55 : 45










LUCAS: + 60 : 40










LUIGI: 55 : 45 / 60 : 40











MARIO: + 60 : 40










MARTH: - 35 : 65 / 40 : 60












MK: - 40 : 60










G^W: 50 : 50











NESS: + 60 : 40












Olimar: 50 : 50 / 55 : 45










PIT: + 55 : 45 / 60 : 40










PEACH
: - 40 : 60 / 45 : 55










PIKACHU: 50 : 50 / 55 : 45











Pokemon Trainer Squirtle: 55 : 45
Pokemon Trainer Charizard: + 60 : 40
Pokemon Trainer Ivysaur: + 60 : 40










ROB: 55 : 45 / 60 : 40











Samus: + 60 : 40











Shiek: 50 : 50 / 55 : 45












Snake: = 55 : 45











Sonic: 55 : 45 / 60 : 40











TL: 50 : 50 / 55 : 45











Wario: = OM NOM NOM


It's Wario vs Wario, the most epic match ever (other than Falcon Dittos and Ganon Dittos). Don't be a bas**** and grab release your opponent, have some integrity. Feel free to grab release him though if he decides to break our moral code. Also feel free to fart in his face IRL and call his mother a fat b****.









Wolf: + 60 : 40 / 65 : 35










YOSHI: 45 : 55 / 55 : 45 (Very even MU, could argue 5 points for either character)


Ban FD if you can, practice on breaking to the ground vs him, approach from the top more than the sides, pressure his shield like crazy since his OOS options kinda suck, bite is too good in this matchup, and don't get grabbed. :) Might be in our favor, might be in his. Very even.







Zelda: + 60 : 40











Zero Suit Samus: - 55 : 45





__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Reserved for space; I'm gonna need a lot considering I will probably try to have at least a good paragraph written on each character.

So much going on for Wario, won't pick a weekly character for awhile.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
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DMG#931
Sorry in advance, but I will reserve this spot for space as well. If it don't need this space for anymore room for matchup discussions, then I will post something useful in here like who we will discuss next each week or something nice.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Not really. Marth boards match-up threads are better: One stickied Index thread with links to every single character match-up discussion. I assume that DMG knows, what he's doing though...
 

Ace55

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This is great man. You running this kinda thread is so much better than some random dude *cough*Ace55 *cough* doing it. You can actually take a lot out of personal (high level) experience.

On a side note, somebody say something about Brinstar. The week is over and all I have are two contradicting posts.
 

Jeepy Sol

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Excellent idea!

In the Lucario boards, I have a stickied Match-Up Discussion similar to this. Except I have a chart (like in the PT boards) that shows each character match-up by color. Here is what that would look like:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/JeepySol/Wariomatch-upchart.png

You are more than welcome to use this if you wish, and I'd be happy to change/update it if need be.

Also, here is a link to my thread, just to show you the structure that I have:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176912
 

Blackbelt

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The Lucas board put the matchup against Wario at an even 50-50.



You have it here at advantage Wario.


I think we should discuss this, and come to an agreement.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Excellent idea!

Here is what that would look like:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/JeepySol/Wariomatch-upchart.png

You are more than welcome to use this if you wish, and I'd be happy to change/update it if need be.
Ty, that is a great format, I added Zelda and the others I missed lol. If you could update that chart, I would be ever grateful :)



Luigi sucks for Wario, that is all.
Lol I need more than that, I think the real reason we are having trouble with Luigi is that we are using the wrong approaches against him. I will try to get a deep discussion going on about him on Monday or Sunday hopefully.

The Lucas board put the matchup against Wario at an even 50-50.



You have it here at advantage Wario.


I think we should discuss this, and come to an agreement.

Sure thing, if you want you can post some info about the matchup today or early tomorrow and I'll try to reply back with my thoughts on that matchup.
 

PhantomX

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Nah, Luigi is gay against Wario but he's very manageable, because unlike mk or marth, he's a lot easier to space against b/c of his inferior DI and short reach. Luigi's deadliest move by far is his fsmash, which a good Wario should never get hit by, and biting/grabbing/dairs to punish can really do a number on them. However, if you try to approach or combo at all, prepare to get your face *****.
 

Blackbelt

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Ty, that is a great format, I added Zelda and the others I missed lol. If you could update that chart, I would be ever grateful :)





Lol I need more than that, I think the real reason we are having trouble with Luigi is that we are using the wrong approaches against him. I will try to get a deep discussion going on about him on Monday or Sunday hopefully.




Sure thing, if you want you can post some info about the matchup today or early tomorrow and I'll try to reply back with my thoughts on that matchup.


Alright, the discussion for the Wario matchup at the Lucas board starts here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5169459#post5169459



Also, here's my summary of the matchup in the first post:

7. Wario: 50-50. Wario, once he gets within range, can pwn you. Lucas, luckily, had enough tools in his arsenal to stop this from happening. After all, Wario's range sucks, and you have projectiles, aerials with good priority, and smash attacks with range on them. However, by no means does this make Wario an easy opponent. Once Wario starts hurting, he will keep it up. Also, avoid using PK Thunder to recover, as it makes you an easy target, due to Wario's amazing horizontal DI. Wario, however, is also a nice gimop, thanks to the fact that PK Thunder can knock him off his bike and into the abyss. And if Wario needs to use him up B to recover, we can pull out our DSmash to knock him away from the edge, since his UP B doesn't auto sweetspoit ledges. Just keep Wario out of range, and you're good.



And also, here's a thread I made on the Wario board back when we were discussing this matchup, asking for Wario mains to discuss the matchup:


http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190269



If you have any question, feel free to ask.
 

MorphedChaos

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I'd suggest putting Wario at like a 20-80 vs D3, as D3 can CG you until a grab release Utilt can kill you. Not to mention hes incredibly heavy and your only good KO move is your fart or Fsmash, as Uair doesn't kill D3 until around 110% or higher.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
I'd suggest putting Wario at like a 20-80 vs D3, as D3 can CG you until a grab release Utilt can kill you. Not to mention hes incredibly heavy and your only good KO move is your fart or Fsmash, as Uair doesn't kill D3 until around 110% or higher.
It's not 80-20, I am fully aware of the grab release and CG issues Wario has. I have it listed as 35 : 65 and that rating is not set in stone, I will go over it with multiple players and see how they feel. But I can guarantee you it is not as bad as you have stated.

Also, I will post something about Lucas later, sorry but I am tired lol.
 

Mmac

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Man, I have to justify Yoshi's Position AGAIN?

*Moans*

Oh well, I'll wait. I'm guessing you are doing the "?" Characters first anyways.

I love how you have him listed as Dead Even, yet still claim that it's advantageous :laugh:
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Man, I have to justify Yoshi's Position AGAIN?

*Moans*

Oh well, I'll wait. I'm guessing you are doing the "?" Characters first anyways.

I love how you have him listed as Dead Even, yet still claim that it's advantageous :laugh:
Lol Sorry, I've missed a lot of stuff, Zelda and a few other characters weren't even included originally lol. I'll change Yoshi to Yellow. :)

I listed the matchup as even cause Reflex and a few other people have said that Yoshi is even. He's played Pr1de before and apparently done fine against him, I haven't played very many good Yoshi's myself, so it's hard for me to rate it when I have little experience myself and someone else does fine against Yoshi.

Also, Yes I am covering the (?) matchups first, Yoshi will probably be next after Luigi.
 

PKNintendo

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Sorry dude, But I also agree that Lucas is 50-50.

I mean doesn't Ness have a 4-6 on Wario (with all of his problems) how can Lucas have the same matchup with none of Ness problems. Stop sticking them together! (joke, I know you wouldn't consider them as clones... WOULD YOU?)
 

Wario Nut

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Man, I have to justify Yoshi's Position AGAIN?

*Moans*

Oh well, I'll wait. I'm guessing you are doing the "?" Characters first anyways.

I love how you have him listed as Dead Even, yet still claim that it's advantageous :laugh:
Yoshi should probably have an advantage but if Wario escapes getting grabbed then the match up is virtually even.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Ok I've updated Ness and his rating. I'm going for 70 : 30, the reason being he is easier to beat than someone like Link, and Lucas is a bit harder to beat that someone like Link. So Lucas is 60 : 40, Link is 65 : 35, and Ness is 70 : 30.

Lucas has better aerial priority than Wario obviously, and he has more overall range. He is also somewhat better than Ness when it comes to landing a kill move, even though he doesn't have a good kill throw like Bthrow for Ness or a good dash grab. His PK Fire has a nice trajectory, but it is still easy to avoid.

He has a pretty nice and versatile recovery, kinda like Wario :D Both sides will have trouble edgeguarding with any success. I'll post more about Lucas.
 

PKNintendo

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Ok I've updated Ness and his rating. I'm going for 70 : 30, the reason being he is easier to beat than someone like Link, and Lucas is a bit harder to beat that someone like Link. So Lucas is 60 : 40, Link is 65 : 35, and Ness is 70 : 30.

Lucas has better aerial priority than Wario obviously, and he has more overall range. He is also somewhat better than Ness when it comes to landing a kill move, even though he doesn't have a good kill throw like Bthrow for Ness or a good dash grab. His PK Fire has a nice trajectory, but it is still easy to avoid.

He has a pretty nice and versatile recovery, kinda like Wario :D Both sides will have trouble edgeguarding with any success. I'll post more about Lucas.
Nuh-uh. 70-30 for Ness is crossing it.

Your list has Wario as an advantage on 75% of the cast. Have you had Wario vs Ness experience. (not scrubs lol) Comparing Ness to Link is a fallacy. Wario ***** Link in the air, Wario doesn't **** Ness due to Ness high priority aerial moves. See, your still considering Lucas as a beefed up Clone of Ness! He isn't.

I don't know about you, but Ness has 3 good kill moves. Backthrow. (not useful on heavies like Wario.) Bair, and PKT2. The difference between a Ness who can land a PKT2 consistently and a Ness that can't is quite big.

Ness positives on Wario.
With Ness plethrora on PKF techs, it's easy to rack up some damage on Wario. (Wario is heavy) Ness aerials have more priority and his fair can be troublesome for a Wario who approachs you. What if Wario DOESN't approach, Ness? Than neither does Ness. They both wait.

This conclusion also stems from Lucas vs Wario. It's not a 6-4 it's a 5-5.
You've already explained what Wario has over Ness, but he also has an ungimpable recovery (zap jumping, magnet pull e.c.t)

No offense dr. Mario guy, but I expected more from you. Especially when considering you have DDD at 6.5-3.5 when it's a clear 7-3.

DDD CG and grab releases are lethal, Wario's grab release Fsmash on Ness... Well it isn't. Please consider what you posted. To be honest Wario should be a solid 6-4 for Ness. 5-5 for Lucas, and 7-3 on Link no less.

Link has even WORSE recovery on Ness. Difficult kill moves to land (his Fsmash is a joke, and his dsmash is kinda of weak) his aerials are poor, and that means Wario ***** him in the air. How can you even have an easier time with Ness, when facing Link? Either you've played a really good Link or a poor Ness. Or maybe it's both.

Going by your logic we can also assume that Sheik has an 8-2 on Wario. (Sheik board matchups) simple tech's don't change a matchup, and matchup thread shouldn't only be YOUR opinion, it should be universal.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Nuh-uh. 70-30 for Ness is crossing it.

Your list has Wario as an advantage on 75% of the cast. Have you had Wario vs Ness experience. (not scrubs lol) Comparing Ness to Link is a fallacy. Wario ***** Link in the air, Wario doesn't **** Ness due to Ness high priority aerial moves. See, your still considering Lucas as a beefed up Clone of Ness! He isn't.

I don't know about you, but Ness has 3 good kill moves. Backthrow. (not useful on heavies like Wario.) Bair, and PKT2. The difference between a Ness who can land a PKT2 consistently and a Ness that can't is quite big.

Ness positives on Wario.
With Ness plethrora on PKF techs, it's easy to rack up some damage on Wario. (Wario is heavy) Ness aerials have more priority and his fair can be troublesome for a Wario who approachs you. What if Wario DOESN't approach, Ness? Than neither does Ness. They both wait.

This conclusion also stems from Lucas vs Wario. It's not a 6-4 it's a 5-5.
You've already explained what Wario has over Ness, but he also has an ungimpable recovery (zap jumping, magnet pull e.c.t)

No offense dr. Mario guy, but I expected more from you. Especially when considering you have DDD at 6.5-3.5 when it's a clear 7-3.

DDD CG and grab releases are lethal, Wario's grab release Fsmash on Ness... Well it isn't. Please consider what you posted. To be honest Wario should be a solid 6-4 for Ness. 5-5 for Lucas, and 7-3 on Link no less.

Link has even WORSE recovery on Ness. Difficult kill moves to land (his Fsmash is a joke, and his dsmash is kinda of weak) his aerials are poor, and that means Wario ***** him in the air. How can you even have an easier time with Ness, when facing Link? Either you've played a really good Link or a poor Ness. Or maybe it's both.

Going by your logic we can also assume that Sheik has an 8-2 on Wario. (Sheik board matchups) simple tech's don't change a matchup, and matchup thread shouldn't only be YOUR opinion, it should be universal.
I am having a hard time getting good matchup numbers. For example, Wario vs Snake is pretty even, 50 : 50. Lucas is easier to beat than Snake who is 50 : 50, about the same as someone like Mario 60 : 40, but harder than someone like Link 65 : 35. It doesn't seem to make sense for me to put Lucas down as 50 : 50 if the 50 : 50 characters do better against Wario than how Lucas does.

Wario has the advantage over a lot of the cast because otherwise why would he be 8th on the tier list? U might be surprised at how well he fares against the majority. I mean it would be hard to believe Wario is a good character if his matchups were crap lol.

The only reason I compare Lucas to Ness is that they do have a lot of similar features. If I can look at Lucas compared to Ness, and see that Lucas has a better recovery, an easier time killing, and comparable priority in the air, with the added bonus that Grab release to Fsmash doesn't work on Lucas, then I should be able to infer that he has an easier time in this matchup than Ness. That is why I was comparing them, not just because they come from the same game series. I would not compare Luigi to Mario since they are a lot more different towards each other than characters like Ness and Lucas are towards themselves.

Link is 65 : 35 vs Wario IMO. MK vs Link is a 7 : 3 matchup or possibly worse, and the Link boards made a fairly reasonable argument as to why they feel it is 6 : 4 for Wario. Link is easier to beat than say Mario, who is 60 : 40, so Link would be put as 65 : 35. Ness seems easier to beat than Link, so I would put him at 70 : 30 or maybe 65 : 35 if I think he isn't too disadvantaged.

If you think I am doing a bad job, make your own matchup thread. I made this to have a matchup chart for the Wario guys that could be updated more frequently than Blue sHell's. These numbers can change, some of them probably will change. So just bear with me.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Is Wolf really as easy for Wario to defeat as Ike? We've discussed the match-up on the Wolf boards and concluded that it's 55:45 for Wario. If you disagree I'd like to hear some reasons, why Ike and Wolf have the same numbers...
 

Ace55

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After today I think I can personally agree on the MK matchup, it's a pain but doable. The Link matchup only aplies if you're not facing mr. Z-air like I was today (although maybe it does seeing as I managed to win one of our three games). A good Link is a pain, projectile spam plus Z-air is nasty. He also tried a lot of jab cancels, which thankfully I kept escaping with Wario's turbo DI.
 

DMG

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Is Wolf really as easy for Wario to defeat as Ike? We've discussed the match-up on the Wolf boards and concluded that it's 55:45 for Wario. If you disagree I'd like to hear some reasons, why Ike and Wolf have the same numbers...
Wolf is about the same as Ike. Ike has better range, more weight and knockback resistance than Wolf, and grab release stuff on Wario. Wolf has a nice projectile, good smashes, a shine that is helpful, and I would say he has a better recovery than Ike too. Both characters fall into pretty much the same combo's from Wario, nothing really separating them there.

I thought about putting it as 55 : 45, but those matchups are mostly even except the character with an advantage usually has just a small trick or something over the other character. For Wolf and Ike, it seems like Wario is ahead by just a bit more than a tiny margin. He certainly doesn't mutilate them, he just seems a bit further ahead than them in the Matchup.
 

Ace55

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I thought about putting it as 55 : 45, but those matchups are mostly even except the character with an advantage usually has just a small trick or something over the other character. For Wolf and Ike, it seems like Wario is ahead by just a bit more than a tiny margin. He certainly doesn't mutilate them, he just seems a bit further ahead than them in the Matchup.
I personally thought the wolf-wario matchup swayed in favor of Wario because he can gimp Wolf so much easier than the other way around, while on stage it's pretty even. Same thing goes for Ike really.
 

PKNintendo

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I am having a hard time getting good matchup numbers. For example, Wario vs Snake is pretty even, 50 : 50. Lucas is easier to beat than Snake who is 50 : 50, about the same as someone like Mario 60 : 40, but harder than someone like Link 65 : 35. It doesn't seem to make sense for me to put Lucas down as 50 : 50 if the 50 : 50 characters do better against Wario than how Lucas does.

Wario has the advantage over a lot of the cast because otherwise why would he be 8th on the tier list? U might be surprised at how well he fares against the majority. I mean it would be hard to believe Wario is a good character if his matchups were crap lol.

The only reason I compare Lucas to Ness is that they do have a lot of similar features. If I can look at Lucas compared to Ness, and see that Lucas has a better recovery, an easier time killing, and comparable priority in the air, with the added bonus that Grab release to Fsmash doesn't work on Lucas, then I should be able to infer that he has an easier time in this matchup than Ness. That is why I was comparing them, not just because they come from the same game series. I would not compare Luigi to Mario since they are a lot more different towards each other than characters like Ness and Lucas are towards themselves.

Link is 65 : 35 vs Wario IMO. MK vs Link is a 7 : 3 matchup or possibly worse, and the Link boards made a fairly reasonable argument as to why they feel it is 6 : 4 for Wario. Link is easier to beat than say Mario, who is 60 : 40, so Link would be put as 65 : 35. Ness seems easier to beat than Link, so I would put him at 70 : 30 or maybe 65 : 35 if I think he isn't too disadvantaged.

If you think I am doing a bad job, make your own matchup thread. I made this to have a matchup chart for the Wario guys that could be updated more frequently than Blue sHell's. These numbers can change, some of them probably will change. So just bear with me.
K.
Yes, but you also have to agree that Snake is a better character overall then Lucas. Matchups also factor in techs vs each other character, and what they can or can't to one another. I can have really, really good Ness and own every Wario and assume that Wario has a disadvantage on Ness. This is wrong in my opinion, first we need to make this collateral.
Or can stink at facing Lucas' with Wario and say ''Lucas has an advantage on Wario

Why is it that when you face Link, you have an harder time with him, then when you face Ness? It's just extremely strange IMO. Im seriously doubting your Ness vs Wario matchups. IMO should play more Ness, or a really good one at that. (no wifi) a Ness with skill would give me a harder time than Link.

Okay when facing Mario, what can Mario do to Wario that Ness cannot do? Ness has the same weight, and can kill Wario easier. (Bair, PKT2) Ness has an equally bad recovery too as well, and has a great aerial game, competing with the likes of Wario himself.

Hell, Wario can do more on Ike than he can on Ness. He can gimp his recovery, and **** him in the air. Ike's aerials are average, and pressuring the slow guy is easy. He has no defense, and can easily be overcome with Wario's aerials. A definite 65-35 for Wario or even 70-30.

I will bear with you, and Im in the 65-35 zone for Ness vs Wario or 60-40. One of the 2.

Ha, the Ness boards haven't faced a Wario. Ever.:laugh: So it will take a while for some matchup input.

Also, comparing Ness to Lucas, no matter how similar they are, is still wrong. Ness actually has better aerial priority than Lucas. Hell, Ness has better aerials than Lucas.

I suppose I do feel strongly about this, but hey! Who wouldn't! When it's your main, people would do anything to defend them. Including me.:embarrass

Err, why is DDD at 65-35 on Wario? I thought it was 70-30. Ridiculously long CG that can lead into an upsmash that does what, 20-40% depending on the level? Plus, DDD is mean in the air, and is quite heavy. Can you explain it please.

(Sorry if Im coming of as a jerk, I will be good. Honest:p)

PS: Im convinced that Wario has a 55-45 on Snake. But thats for another day.
 

DMG

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K.
Yes, but you also have to agree that Snake is a better character overall then Lucas.
Yes and not only is Snake a better character overall, but he also handles Wario better than Lucas. He has grenades, better reach and overall stage control, he's better at killing than Lucas IMO, he's heavier, and other things. It would be hard for me to put Lucas down at the same difficulty when someone like Snake or even ROB has an easier time.



Okay when facing Mario, what can Mario do to Wario that Ness cannot do? Ness has the same weight, and can kill Wario easier. (Bair, PKT2) Ness has an equally bad recovery too as well, and has a great aerial game, competing with the likes of Wario himself.
Mario has a projectile as well, he can juggle Wario with Uair, his ground game is better than Ness' ground game, and Mario doesn't suffer from grab release to Fsmash (Which puts Ness at a slightly bigger disadvantage than Mario, otherwise Ness would fare about the same as Mario)

Hell, Wario can do more on Ike than he can on Ness. He can gimp his recovery, and **** him in the air. Ike's aerials are average, and pressuring the slow guy is easy. He has no defense, and can easily be overcome with Wario's aerials. A definite 65-35 for Wario or even 70-30.
Ike has better range, and he wouldn't be trying to go head to head with Wario in the air. He would use spacing aerials to keep Wario away. He also has grab release to Utilt on Wario, and Ike vs Wario would be more even if Ike had an easier time getting a grab. He also has the grab release infinite (very situational).


Err, why is DDD at 65-35 on Wario? I thought it was 70-30. Ridiculously long CG that can lead into an upsmash that does what, 20-40% depending on the level? Plus, DDD is mean in the air, and is quite heavy. Can you explain it please.

(Sorry if Im coming of as a jerk, I will be good. Honest:p)

PS: Im convinced that Wario has a 55-45 on Snake. But thats for another day.
I know the CG and grab release suck for Wario, but IDK Dedede's also a big fat target for Combo's and Chomp. You can force him into bad positions while he is recovering, and if he has to use Upb then you can usually get a free clap/waft/whatever. He's heavy, but you can kill him fine if you save stuff like Fsmash and Waft. Dedede probably will not move down from 65 : 35, as obviously Wario has a disadvantage, but I don't think it's nearly that large for most stages (Walkoffs excluded lol.) I did put a ? mark near that matchup, it's one we need to go over more.
 

JST

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imo 35-65 for DDD is good. If you ask me, without all the ghey stuff, it would be 55:45 slightly in Wario's favor because Wario combos DDD's balls off, and the Waft is the greatest move ever. It's just that DDD's CG and grab releases pushes up DDD's advantage astronomically high. 30-70 at the very worst.
 

DMG

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Well I think the most important thing overall is for Wario to neutralize the advantage Diddy gets through Bananas. You cannot trip in the air, and Wario likes the air anyways, so staying up there is good. Eating them is usually safe, unless he is close or unless he glide tosses the banana at you since he can just hit you anyways. You can stop a lot of his spotdodge to counterattack tactics with chomp or even with your longer lasting aerials.

He has a hard time killing Wario, whether it be through a spike or a strong attack. The easiest way for him to get a kill is a lot harder to setup since Wario is usually above the ground. Wario, on the other hand, still kills fine in this matchup and he can put a lot of pressure on Diddy when he is forced offstage, while Diddy usually can't edgeguard too far out.

Really, if you work on destroying his defensive options and negating his offense, then he's forced to work a bit harder for the win than Wario. If you get careless or over confident, then expect to eat dirt as Diddy chips away at your damage meter.
 

PIMPSLAP

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DMG i'm back to maining wario and seconding kirbs after the last hobo results so you think you could do me a mega favor and friendly me for a while at hobo so i can tune my wario back up to how he was a couple months ago?
and then we could do teams and beat M2K with are double dragon wario moves.... lol (playing)
 

PhantomX

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DMG i'm back to maining wario and seconding kirbs after the last hobo results so you think you could do me a mega favor and friendly me for a while at hobo so i can tune my wario back up to how he was a couple months ago?
and then we could do teams and beat M2K with are double dragon wario moves.... lol (playing)
He's already gonna have a pimptastic Wario partner :X
 

DMG

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DMG#931
DMG i'm back to maining wario and seconding kirbs after the last hobo results so you think you could do me a mega favor and friendly me for a while at hobo so i can tune my wario back up to how he was a couple months ago?
and then we could do teams and beat M2K with are double dragon wario moves.... lol (playing)
Sure thing, however I have promised other people friendlies and MM's at HOBO. I'm gonna try to get most of those done the day before at one of the smashfests but if I can't then it might be hard for me to get some friendlies in. Also, I already have Lee Harris as my partner for HOBO, and the tourney after that I have Phantom :D and then the one after that I have Hylian lol.
 

PKNintendo

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Yes and not only is Snake a better character overall, but he also handles Wario better than Lucas. He has grenades, better reach and overall stage control, he's better at killing than Lucas IMO, he's heavier, and other things. It would be hard for me to put Lucas down at the same difficulty when someone like Snake or even ROB has an easier time.





Mario has a projectile as well, he can juggle Wario with Uair, his ground game is better than Ness' ground game, and Mario doesn't suffer from grab release to Fsmash (Which puts Ness at a slightly bigger disadvantage than Mario, otherwise Ness would fare about the same as Mario)



Ike has better range, and he wouldn't be trying to go head to head with Wario in the air. He would use spacing aerials to keep Wario away. He also has grab release to Utilt on Wario, and Ike vs Wario would be more even if Ike had an easier time getting a grab. He also has the grab release infinite (very situational).




I know the CG and grab release suck for Wario, but IDK Dedede's also a big fat target for Combo's and Chomp. You can force him into bad positions while he is recovering, and if he has to use Upb then you can usually get a free clap/waft/whatever. He's heavy, but you can kill him fine if you save stuff like Fsmash and Waft. Dedede probably will not move down from 65 : 35, as obviously Wario has a disadvantage, but I don't think it's nearly that large for most stages (Walkoffs excluded lol.) I did put a ? mark near that matchup, it's one we need to go over more.
I see the truth now. I cower my head in shame.
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
1,189
Location
Snakes BAIR
Sure thing, however I have promised other people friendlies and MM's at HOBO. I'm gonna try to get most of those done the day before at one of the smashfests but if I can't then it might be hard for me to get some friendlies in. Also, I already have Lee Harris as my partner for HOBO, and the tourney after that I have Phantom :D and then the one after that I have Hylian lol.
poo... lolz ok well then i guess i will see ya when i see ya lolz
but seriously i wanna use wario so i hope you could get back up to date at hobo (HOPES)
 

Ace55

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,642
Location
Amsterdam
I seriously disagree with Marth beeing as hard as Dedede and harder than Luigi. It might just be because I know every Marth move inside out while I don't have any experience against good Luigi's. However I can't believe the matchup has changed that much in the past six months (I believe it was listed as 5-5 at some point). Marth doesn't have his broken grab range from Melee, so avoiding being grab released too much should be doable I would think.

I wonder what ever happened to BluesHell? Last I heard of him I believe he said he had too come home from work soon. Does he work on a oilplatform or something?
 
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