.__.;
It's been kinda distressing to see Sonic board participation in inter-board matchup discussions, and it reared its ugly head in the (thank goodness it's locked)... Sonic's Tier Placement thread.
Sonic Sucks
omggmgg but u mainz sonic!!? u maed me disbeliv in tierz wen i plaed u!
I'm going to quote/re-fix something I put elsewhere.
Sonic:
+ can attack/airdodge/fsj out of up-B
+ invincibility frames on side-B (hop) release
+side-B, aerial down-B are cancellable into shield
+ Fast run (full length of FD in a little over 1 second?!) for baiting, punishing, and avoiding attacks.
+ Good grab game (pummels, 'chase' throws, etc)
+ Comboability out of spindash and/or springs.
+One of the most versatile foxtrots in game
+Can attain temporary 'run speed' in the air via spinshot.
- Kill moves have generally low knockback and speed
- Low aerial acceleration (doesn't change directions easily)
- Low range on many moves (N-air, Jab, F-air, Spindashes)
- Spindash can be outprioritized or grabbed out of, due to its low range.
- Homing Attack has punishable ending lag and an exploitable trajectory.
- If spaced incorrectly, it's possible to get grabbed out of spring.
- Most moves are multi-hit with low damages per hit (easy to outprioritize)
I bolded things that affect or are put into use in most Sonic mains' gameplay. I highlighted what are, IMO, the major affecting factors of Sonic's gameplay.
I then proceeded to strike out things that factor more into mindgames/player ability.
Red text is stuff that we bring up often to support Sonic gameplay, but are written off.
now, the list, without all the crossouts.
Don't get me wrong, Sonic has tools a good player can have a field day with, but the problem is that most of his 'objective' character traits... aren't good.
In matchup discussions, bait+punish don't count. Avoiding projectiles... apparently doesn't count either. Doesn't it seem unfair? Doesn't it make you want to go superfanboy lvl3 and sonic pawnch someone?
Too bad. You can't change matchups or tier lists with that. Accept it. Spread it.
;__; baww now we're going to throw steak at you!
Wut iz ur point?
And another quote.
Be a better player.
There isn't an AT that, when learned, suddenly gives you 50 rings and bam, you're killing people with Sonic, when you were suiciding and getting OHKO'd just 2 games before.
All that stuff that got crossed out in the first list? You can't bring it up in matchup discussions, and it sure as heck didn't change his tier placement. But... Take as much advantage of it as you can. Matchup discussions can be as objective as they can be and still not reflect actual gameplay. Baww Wario can get standing infinite'd by tall characters! But it doesn't change how a good Wario can be almost impossible to grab when it comes to actual gameplay. Everyone can discard Ike's F-air, F-smash, etc, but when it comes to actual gameplay, well, you don't want to be the first Marth in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOv-sBtBig
That said, join the bandwagon, tell people Sonic sucks. Go to matchup discussions and tell people about how much Sonic sucks and tell them how to counter standalone moves.
But when it comes down to actual gameplay, mind**** them. Outread, outmanuever, outplay.
Learn to player.
It's been kinda distressing to see Sonic board participation in inter-board matchup discussions, and it reared its ugly head in the (thank goodness it's locked)... Sonic's Tier Placement thread.
Sonic Sucks
omggmgg but u mainz sonic!!? u maed me disbeliv in tierz wen i plaed u!
I'm going to quote/re-fix something I put elsewhere.
Sonic:
+ can attack/airdodge/fsj out of up-B
+ invincibility frames on side-B (hop) release
+
+
+ Good grab game (pummels, 'chase' throws, etc)
+ Comboability out of spindash and/or springs.
+
+
- Kill moves have generally low knockback and speed
- Low aerial acceleration (doesn't change directions easily)
- Low range on many moves (N-air, Jab, F-air, Spindashes)
- Spindash can be outprioritized or grabbed out of, due to its low range.
- Homing Attack has punishable ending lag and an exploitable trajectory.
- If spaced incorrectly, it's possible to get grabbed out of spring.
- Most moves are multi-hit with low damages per hit (easy to outprioritize)
I bolded things that affect or are put into use in most Sonic mains' gameplay. I highlighted what are, IMO, the major affecting factors of Sonic's gameplay.
I then proceeded to strike out things that factor more into mindgames/player ability.
Red text is stuff that we bring up often to support Sonic gameplay, but are written off.
now, the list, without all the crossouts.
Sonic:
+ can attack/airdodge/fsj out of up-B
+ invincibility frames on side-B (hop) release
+ Good grab game (pummels, 'chase' throws, etc)
+ Comboability out of spindash and/or springs.
- Kill moves have generally low knockback and speed
- Low aerial acceleration (doesn't change directions easily)
- Low range on many moves (N-air, Jab, F-air, Spindashes)
- Spindash can be outprioritized or grabbed out of, due to its low range.
- Homing Attack has punishable ending lag and an exploitable trajectory.
- If spaced incorrectly, it's possible to get grabbed out of spring.
- Most moves are multi-hit with low damages per hit (easy to outprioritize)
Don't get me wrong, Sonic has tools a good player can have a field day with, but the problem is that most of his 'objective' character traits... aren't good.
In matchup discussions, bait+punish don't count. Avoiding projectiles... apparently doesn't count either. Doesn't it seem unfair? Doesn't it make you want to go superfanboy lvl3 and sonic pawnch someone?
Too bad. You can't change matchups or tier lists with that. Accept it. Spread it.
;__; baww now we're going to throw steak at you!
Quoted from the tier list post itself.
1. Tier placement doesn't necessarily reflect your ability to beat your friends with a specific character. You might beat your friend's Metaknight with Sonic, but that doesn't mean Sonic is top tier. It means you win that matchup against your friend. Tiers are not absolute measurements of match outcomes.
5. That said, don't give up hope! Just because your character isn't ranked at or near the top, doesn't mean you can't do fantastic things with them with enough talent and effort. We do not publish this list to encourage players to change their main tournament character. If anything, it should serve as a challenge to take the game to the next level.
6. In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use.
Wut iz ur point?
And another quote.
Point?I figured this, after switching to/becoming a Sonic main [yeah, I didn't main him at first lol]- in general, Sonic is a "basic" character at the core of the gameplay; his mobility allows you to take advantage of things alot easier while trying to get around priority issues and crap. Aside from his special attacks (which are... pretty big of a deal), there isn't too much that makes him so different other than mobility and generally smaller physical range.
Anyone who knows how to set up a grab and follow up throws can take advantage of Sonic's grab game.
Anyone who can pick up spacing can take advantage of speed and his few 'ranged' moves.
Anyone who can read opponent movements can take advantage of his spin cancels and speed to bait and punish moves.
Other than learning his jumps, recovery range, dash, move range, and specials, there isn't really much to learn, character-speaking. You just learn to be a better player overall, and apply it to Sonic XD
So really, it's not "learning Sonic" as it is "learning Smash"
Be a better player.
There isn't an AT that, when learned, suddenly gives you 50 rings and bam, you're killing people with Sonic, when you were suiciding and getting OHKO'd just 2 games before.
All that stuff that got crossed out in the first list? You can't bring it up in matchup discussions, and it sure as heck didn't change his tier placement. But... Take as much advantage of it as you can. Matchup discussions can be as objective as they can be and still not reflect actual gameplay. Baww Wario can get standing infinite'd by tall characters! But it doesn't change how a good Wario can be almost impossible to grab when it comes to actual gameplay. Everyone can discard Ike's F-air, F-smash, etc, but when it comes to actual gameplay, well, you don't want to be the first Marth in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOv-sBtBig
That said, join the bandwagon, tell people Sonic sucks. Go to matchup discussions and tell people about how much Sonic sucks and tell them how to counter standalone moves.
But when it comes down to actual gameplay, mind**** them. Outread, outmanuever, outplay.
Learn to player.