Mario Moveset Discussion. Current: None!

SkylerOcon · Oct 1, 2008

Use this thread to discuss Mario's moveset. Every three days the thread will be updated to another attack.

Any ways to utilize this move effectively? Any ATs we should be sure to know about? Talk about them here!

Special thanks to Matt07 for the Pro/Con lists

Number 1: The Cape

Pros:
-It allows him to mess up recoveries, by reversing their momentum, and recover move.
-Aids recovery, by adding slight horizontall boost movement.
-Allows to completely mess up with people's attacks while on stage, and in the air.
-Cape Gliding.
-The Cape acts as a defense against projectile spam.
-The Cape badly punishes laggy moves and moves that put characters into helpless state.
-The cape can be used to stall in the air.
-The cape can be used to change your direction midair.
-Can be used for mindgames, such as halting your falling movement to alter with your oponent's prediction when touching the ground.

Cons:
-The only con is it can get predictable at times.
-during your recovery, only using the cape the first time aids your recovery.

Number 2: FLUDD

Pros:
-FIHL (FLUUD Induced Hit Lag) works wonders on characters with 'long lasting' aerials, and can help us punish (Game and Watch especially.)
-Combing with the cape, this makes Mario an awesome edgeguarder
-Reflects Projectiles
-Pushes characters back, stopping their approaches.
-FLUDD can be used to prevent edgeguarding
-FLUDD can be used as a recovery (above the stage only; using it below will move you forward but you will fall so far down while you're using it you'll SD)
-FLUDD stops a number of projectiles, so...basically against projectile campers near the ledge, you can sweep through those and use the FLUDD to push the camper onto the ledge.
-FLUDD'ing someone halts their momentum if they hold forward, which can screw up spacing and give you more time to anticipate where someone will recover.
-FIHL/Approach Killing is AWESOME against Glide Attacks, especially on Metaknight's Shuttle Loop.

Cons:
-Ending lag can be punished.
-If you shoot FLUUD too late, or shoot it on the opposite side (I hate when I do that) you can get punished.
-FLUDD is situational.

Number 3: Fireball

Pros:
+Key to Mario's approaching. You can practically follow up anything from a Fireball.
+Can prove annoying too characters that can crawl.
+Fireballs can help against ledgeguarders.
+disrupts your oponent's attacks and leads to follow ups.
+Its not too good for camping but its better than not having a projectile at all while retreating.

Cons:
-It travels pretty slow, and can get powershielded easily.
-You can't really camp with Fireballs.
-Fireballs don't travel as far as they used to.
-Low priority

Number 4: Super Jump Punch (SJP)

Pros:
+It helps you recover.
+Last frame of attack causes stage spikes. (On edges like Battlefield, and Smashville.)
+Has invincibility on start, and goes throw all attacks.
+His best Out of Shield (OOS) option.
+Decent ledgecamp tool.
+Several aerials true combo into it.
+Amazing priority. (Screw the tornado. Meta mains can shove it)

Cons:
-Not really the best recovery compared to others.
-Easily predictable.
-Ending lag can cause you to get punished.

Number 5: Neutral A

Pros:
+Super fast (2 Frames)
+Jab Faking
+Punish spotdodges
+Jab lock
+3 hits to Diminishing Returns

Cons:
-Short Range

Number 6: Dair

Pros:
+Hard to shield grab the move due to the 'long lasting' hitbox.
+Punishes spot dodges, and roll 'spammers.'
+A good move to seperate the Ice Climbers.
+Good for baiting (You can move back and forth during the move, very slightly.)
+It auto cancels into a d-smash.
+Combo's well into other air attacks.
+If you D-air over items, you pick them up (Diddy's Banana Peel)
+Good priority.
+Zero startup and ending lag.
+Short-hop D-air doesn't autocancel. It finished up in the air.
+Aerial with a ground hitbox.
+Decent Out of Shield option with less risk than Super Jump Punch.
+D-air also goes through projectiles like Mario's Fireballs and Pikachu's Thunder Jolt.
+The last hit goes through Meta Knight's Tornado.
+Down throw to D-air works wonders on people that airdodge after the throw.
+D-air can eat shields alive.

Cons
-Lack of range.
-D-air lacks a general purpose besides an alternative to aerial approaching.
-It doesn't have enough KO potential.
-It's knockback properties doesn't allow gimping.
Iit can only be used for combos at low percentages.

Number 7: Bair

Pros
+Lovely range.
+Lovely knockback.
+Complimets every move in Mario's arsenal nicely.
+ Good damage.
+ Mario's strongest Aerial (ties with fully connected D-air and beneath the Sweetspotted F-air)
+ Decent spacer
+Can be used twice in a SH
+Low ending lag
+B-air is a good Reversed Aerial Rush move.
+B-air can lead into the following;
Bair>Reverse Usmash
Bair>Shutter stepped Fsmash
Bair>Bair>Bair
Bair>Uair or Uair>Bair
Bair>Nair

Cons
-Easily read
-Easily powershielded
-Easily shield grabbed

Number 8: The unbeatable... DTILT!

Pros:

+ 1337 mindgames on Meta-Knight
+ Disjointed horizontal hitbox

Cons:

- It sucks
- Very, very badly
- Pretty much gives your opponent a free fsmash
- Mario would seriously be better without a Dtilt

Number 9: Utilt

Pros:
+It can chain a lot of characters from 30%-50.
+It's actually pretty decent out of shield move.
+Pretty swift move.
+Leads to air combos.
+Hits through some stages platforms. (ie; Battlefield.)
+Decent finisher at high percents.

Cons
-Lacks damage.
-Not very good for K.O's.
Bad horizantol, and vertical range.
-Characters with a good n-air can break out of it after 2 hits, or 1. Depends on there damage. (freaking Luigi)

Number 10: Uair

Pros:
+ Many moves can lead into u-air allowing for combo's such as (Chain Dthrow -> uair -> uair -> Dthrow -> uair -> uair -> SJP.)
+Great juggling aerial.
+Quick and virtually lagless.
+Can do two u-airs in one shorthop.
+Good for dealing damage and doesn't deteriorate.
+Good for edguarding for offstage K.O's.
+Good knockback if undiminished.

Cons:
-Easily shieldgrabbed.
-Doesn't reach below Mario.

Number 11: Ftilt

Pros:
+Has IASA frames.
+Good priority.
+"Wave slide" is a nice option out of Ftilt.
+F-tilt can semi lock.
+A good move to use for spacing.
+Can follow a lot of aerials into f-tilt
+Can angle it for better reach.
+Can be used for an out of shield option.
+Replaces uses for smashes sometimes, so it keeps them 'fresh'.
+Good shield poker.

Cons:
-Weak knockback.
-Not great range.

Number 12: Fair

Pros:
+You can spike your opponent, setting them up for a Jab Lock, or other "combo's" if they don't tech the spike.
+Decent meteor.
+Decent hitbox size; it's actually pretty big, just not huge. okay hitbox.
+Can use f-air under a platform to send opponents outwards, giving you a chance to edgeguard.
+F-air autoncancels on Platforms.
+Spiked F-air hit stun can lead too combo's.
+Full hoped F-air finished up in the air letting you use a u-air, or n-air before hitting the ground.
+You can u-air "blind" to f-air spike combo. Works well on large characters. (Donkey Kong anyone?)

Cons
-Slow and laggy.
-It's a weak meteor.
-Hard to contest against other attacks.

Number 13: Nair

Neutral Air

Pros
+It has good priority.
+Good out of shield move.
+Good for a horizontal Knockback.
+Long Lasting Hitbox.
+Very good attack for edgeguards and Jab lock setups.
+Comes out Fast.
+Good Priority.
+SH D-air -> N-air for shield pressure.
+Nair is so perfect to get out of juggles, chain grabs.
+Lagless.

Cons
-Okay for K.O'ing.
-Looses strength and knockback in later frames.
-Low range.
-Isn't a kill move forever.

SPECIAL THANKS TO BOBSON FOR THIS LIST

Projectiles nair outprioritizes:

Mario: Fireball
Luigi: Fireball
Peach: Regular turnips (not stitch), beam sword, Mr. Saturn
Bowser: Fire breath
Diddy Kong: Peanuts
Wario: Wheels
Link: Arrows, boomerang
Zelda: Din's Fire
Toon Link: Arrows, boomerang
Samus: Super missiles, homing missiles, uncharged charge shot, bombs
Pit: Arrows (!)
Ice Climbers: Ice blocks
ROB: Gyro? (it seems to trade hits with it)
King Dedede: Waddle Dees/Doos, Waddle Doo lightning
Olimar: Pikmin
Pikachu: Stage electroshock, ball electroshock
Ivysaur: Razor leaf
Charizard: Flamethrower, rock smash fragments
Lucario: Force palm, 0% fully-charged aura sphere (higher percents will break it)
Ness: PK thunder (as if it wasn't already easy enough to gimp the poor little guy)
Lucas: PK thunder
Mr. Game & Watch: Chef
Snake: Nikita missile (but everything does)

Also, green shells, deku nuts, star rod shots, ray gun shots, and cracker launcher shots, but of course only scrubs use items so you won't need to know that. Anything else can be caped.

Click to expand...

Number 14: Usmash

Pros:
+Decent K.O power.
+Decent speed.
+Decent Out of shield option.
+Fairly large hitbox, and can be decieving when turned around.
+DAC (Dash Attack Cancelled) U-Smash that allows you to charge it up.
+Can even hit opponents on ledges.
+It can combo at low percents.

Cons:
-Needs to stay unstaled to retain decent KO power.

Number 15: Dsmash

Pros:
+Comes out frame 5 (same as MK's D-smash!)
+Covers both sides well.
+Good punishing move.
+Gets people off the stage effectively due to fairly low trajectory.
+Good spotdodge tool.

Cons:
-Isn't a kill move for too long.
-Not that useful on people who are in the air a lot.
-Not great reach.

Number 16: Fsmash

Pros:
+Massive range.
+Great killing power.
+Sweetspot is disjointed.
+Good shift via attack when not stutter stepped.

Cons:
-Slow
-If not sweetspotted some of its knockback is reduced

Blackbelt · Oct 1, 2008

The cape is what makes Mario unique, and it's what makes Mario a force to be reckoned with.

It allows him to gimp recoveries, and it also allows him to recover, and it also allows to completely F with people's attacks while on stage.

The first move you should learn how to effectively use is the cape.

To end, I don't remember who said this, but it's true:

cape=****

HeroMystic · Oct 1, 2008

The most feared move in Mario's moveset is the cape. It's what makes MK users think twice about their drill attack, it's what make many characters go really low in order to recover. It what really screws over Wolf's Up-B. There are so many ways that you can screw a player over with the cape that it isn't funny.

That being said, it still has some untapped potiential, particularly the cape glide. The cape glide is an excellent mindgame tactic to use for your edgeguard game. Wanna stop that DK from using his horizontal recovery? Cape Glide --> U-air or F-air. Wanna surprise that Marth player? Cape Glide ---> Cape again to totally screw up his recovery.

Not so good on the stage though. Good to use against charged attacks or laggy smashes, but it's mainly used as a mindgame.

Roager · Oct 1, 2008

HeroMystic said:
The most feared move in Mario's moveset is the cape. It's what makes MK users think twice about their drill attack, it's what make many characters go really low in order to recover. It what really screws over Wolf's Up-B. There are so many ways that you can screw a player over with the cape that it isn't funny.

That being said, it still has some untapped potiential, particularly the cape glide. The cape glide is an excellent mindgame tactic to use for your edgeguard game. Wanna stop that DK from using his horizontal recovery? Cape Glide --> U-air or F-air. Wanna surprise that Marth player? Cape Glide ---> Cape again to totally screw up his recovery.

Not so good on the stage though. Good to use against charged attacks or laggy smashes, but it's mainly used as a mindgame.

The cape glide was my favorite move, when i was playing mario for a while. I don't really use him anymore, but the cape glide to fair spike was just so much fun.

Judge Judy · Oct 1, 2008

Cape is ****! The Cape has to be one of, if not the, best moves in Mario's moveset. The Cape acts as a defense against projectile spam as well as one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game, plus it helps his recovery. The Cape itself can be used to reverse the momentum of opponents and ideally their recovery itself. The Cape badly punishes laggy moves and moves that put characters into helpless. Addtionally, the Cape Glide is very fast and can be used downwards giving Mario incredible verstality and flexibility with his edgeguarding options. Mario can also Cape Stall on ledges and in the air.

If only Mario had a way to use the Cape Glide on the ground or angled up while edgeguarding...

PS: Did I forget anything?

Roager · Oct 1, 2008

Judge Judy said:
Cape is ****! The Cape has to be one of, if not the, best moves in Mario's moveset. The Cape acts as a defense against projectile spam as well as one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game, plus it helps his recovery. The Cape itself can be used to reverse the momentum of opponents and ideally their recovery itself. The Cape badly punishes laggy moves and moves that put characters into helpless. Addtionally, the Cape Glide is very fast and can be used downwards giving Mario incredible verstality and flexibility with his edgeguarding options. Mario can also Cape Stall on ledges and in the air.

If only Mario had a way to use the Cape Glide on the ground or angled up while edgeguarding...

PS: Did I forget anything?

You forgot that the cape is THE best move mario has. (not one of them, THE)

also, you forgot to spell it "Caep is Raep!!1"

Lex Crunch · Oct 1, 2008

Definitely a fantastic move, and, again, one of the things that makes Mario unique. If not for the cape, he may have been unbalanced (in the not-so-great-character kind of way). It turns people around AND does some damage (though not much, but we try). It totally ruins any and all short-term plans the opposition may have had if you do cape them in battle. In many cases, instead of using the f-tilt, if I'm close enough, I'll attempt the cape and follow it up with an f-tilt or sometimes even something else for maximum effectiveness. Also goes perfectly in tandem with the Down B, FLUDD. Whichever one you use first is purely dependent on the recovery of the victim, but we all start to get it. All in all, absolutely no drawbacks to it at all except for the mediocre reach and slight vulnerability if it misses or gets shield'd. Also comes out very fast. If you don't use it, either learn to, stop using Mario, or get shot in the face.

Ray/Boshi · Oct 1, 2008

I use the cape for mindgame purposes as well as the obvious use of reversing attacks and recovery's.. But lately i've been using it to switch the direction i'm facing while airborne, slightly stopping me for a bit is just a added bonus that helps at times.

Capestall is straight up viscious. Especially when against a Olimar or Ivysaur. As well as restricting any tether recovery because the edge isnt open for them to grab automatically. His upb gets screwed with you holding onto the ledge. It's also nice because it buys you time while you're laying safetly in the gap. Mario's best played patiently, but smoothly fast on the draw with his attacks. After awhile it becomes second nature to capestall automatically and reverse peoples upb recovery(s) on the dime, all the time & every time.

Capeglide is beneficial for when the opponets way out there, but not high up in the air recovering back. It slides you way out there with them, very quickly. It's even possible to cape them while you're in the gliding out with the cape phase. (I screw Ike hard with this every time) Capeglide is something very helpful if you learn it by heart.

Judge Judy · Oct 1, 2008

Ray/Boshi said:
Capeglide is beneficial for when the opponets way out there, but not high up in the air recovering back. It slides you way out there with them, very quickly. It's even possible to cape them while you're in the gliding out with the cape phase. (I screw Ike hard with this every time) Capeglide is something very helpful if you learn it by heart.

It's not the best thing to use all the time but its main advantage is that it's fast and you can follow up with aerials directly out of it. The Downward Cape Glide has a more limited use since you can end up SDing if you aren't used to it, but it can interecpt glides sometimes and people who try to sweetspot their recovery from below. I incorporate into my edgeguarding whenever I can and I'd advise others to do the same; no matter how you look at it, it's a good habit to use it when edgeguarding since it just adds so much more speed to your edgeguarding game.

hippiedude92 · Oct 1, 2008

Ah the superman's cape. Without this it's like saying you can't eat bread with out the butter. If it wasn't for this, mario's position on the tier list would have gone much lower. If your going to main mario, you must master this first.

First off, CApe has been known to gimp 4/5's of the cast very well. It forces them to opposite direction and works very well on the spacies. It also still counts to move decay regeneration thinggy.

It still does damage (unbelieveable right?)

It halts all projectile spam and people like samas's and lucario's projectiles, their going have to think twice of using it or else it'll be cape'd right back at them.

It slightly helps mario's recovery. You can cape stall, on the air/edge for mindgames and actually a nicesetup at times for a fair spike. Also you can cape glide for a shifted momentum and edgeguard even more effectively. You can cape glide off platforms too.

It's still a great mindgame/edgeguard tool. People have to think twice on what their using (hi luigi's upb) or they'll be serverly punished without mercy.

The only downside to it really is I guess it may get predictable at times, but it basically erases its weaknesses and gives mario's rep of being one of the best edgeguards in the game.

10/10 imo.

mario brawler · Oct 1, 2008

the cape is just amazing,it just has so many uses and is so flexible to work with I have to thank Sakurai for thinking of such a great concept
you can ledge capestall for mindgames I frames ect
you can capestall to mess up character chasing you out the stage like MK fair,Ganon Dair,Ike fair ect
you can cape a recovery
cape an attack > stutter Fsmash
cape projectiles!!111!!
help recovery
Punish any mistake
torture your opponent after you cape them by continiously caping them while they despertly try to DI towards the stage in freefall state

Emperor Mario · Oct 1, 2008

The cape helps Mario to recovered, doesn't it? Could someone care to explain how?

Judge Judy · Oct 1, 2008

Emperor Mario said:
The cape helps Mario to recovered, doesn't it? Could someone care to explain how?

It moves Mario Up and horizontally a bit on its first use in the air. After the first use, the cape will still be able to stall you in the air but you'll still lose a little vertical height after each use. The cape can also sweetspot the ledge.

SkylerOcon · Oct 1, 2008

In my opinion, the cape is easily the best tactic that Mario has. Vital to the Superman combo, vital to recovery, vital to mindgames, and vital to defense, this is the attack that makes Mario. Without it, he would deserve his current low tier position.

It can scare nearly any character into thinking twice about using a recovery, even when they're about to die. Used with proper timing, you don't even have to leave the ledge, and can just get more invincibility frames by capestalling.

Capegliding destroys any character with a horizontal recovery, and can make Meta-Knights be cautious with their Side-B.

If you learn how to use it effectively, your Mario will be come leagues better.

Emperor Mario · Oct 9, 2008

Judge Judy said:
It moves Mario Up and horizontally a bit on its first use in the air. After the first use, the cape will still be able to stall you in the air but you'll still lose a little vertical height after each use. The cape can also sweetspot the ledge.

Ok thanks. It would've been nice of it gives extra heightbefore and after Mario's second jump.

Judge Judy · Oct 9, 2008

What move should be disccussed next?

hippiedude92 · Oct 9, 2008

I hope this discussion wasn't meant for a weekly thing seeing as how Mario boards aren't fully active >.>

shall we go to Fludd? without it, it won't go along with the cape and its like bread and butter.

Judge Judy · Oct 9, 2008

hippiedude92 said:
I hope this discussion wasn't meant for a weekly thing seeing as how Mario boards aren't fully active >.>

shall we go to Fludd? without it, it won't go along with the cape and its like bread and butter.

Sounds good, FLUDD has turned out to be very useful.

SkylerOcon · Oct 9, 2008

Somebody sum up the cape and I'll change it to FLUDD.

Matt07 · Oct 9, 2008

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

Mario's Cape

Pros:
-It allows him to mess up recoveries, by reversing their momentum, and recover move.
-Aids recovery, by adding slight horizontall boost movement.
-Allows to completely mess up with people's attacks while on stage, and in the air.
-Cape Gliding.
-The Cape acts as a defense against projectile spam.
-The Cape badly punishes laggy moves and moves that put characters into helpless state.

Con:
-The only con is it can get predictable at times.

Takeshi245 · Oct 9, 2008

Another con to add to the FLUDD is its ending lag. Other than that, I think the list is accurate, Matt07.

BoTastic! · Oct 9, 2008

You missed a few other uses of the cape Matt.

Pros
-The cape can be used to stall in the air.
-The cape can be used to change your direction midair.
-Can be used for mindgames, such as halting your falling movement to alter with your oponent's prediction when touching the ground.

Cons
-during your recovery, only using the cape the first time aids your recovery.

Matt07 · Oct 9, 2008

Oops, thanks, Bo X7, appreciate it

.

SkylerOcon · Oct 9, 2008

Alright. Changed to FLUDD.

BoTastic! · Oct 9, 2008

You should update the thread title

Matt07 · Oct 9, 2008

F.L.U.U.D;

Pros:
FIHL (FLUUD Induced Hit Lag) works wonders on characters with 'long lasting' aerials, and can help us punish (Game and Watch especially.)
-Combing with the cape, this makes Mario an awesome edgeguarder
-Can also stops projectiles from coming, such as Snake's gernades.
-Pushes characters back, stopping their approaches.

Cons:
-Exactly what Takeshi245 said, ending lag can be punished.
-If you shoot FLUUD too late, or shoot it on the opposite side (I hate when I do that) you can get punished.

SkylerOcon · Oct 9, 2008

Overall, the FLUDD is what makes Brawl Mario such a unique character. The Cape helps a lot sure, but the FLUDD brings something entirely new to the table. It's slightly stronger than Squirtle's Water Gun (from what I've seen) is a god in gimping recoveries, makes G&Ws and Meta-Knights instantly regret outprioritizing Mario (<3 FIHL), and has quite a few aerial uses despite what most people believe.

You can FLUDD people under the lip of FD.

You FLUDD people to prevent them from edgeguarding.

You can FLUDD backwards to give yourself an extra recovery boost (only when you're above the stage).

The FLUDD probably has the most untapped potential out of all of Mario's moveset. I'm not saying that it's the best move (Cape wins that by far), but with proper usage of the FIHL and other FLUDD techniques, this could be Mario's ticket up to upper-mid, and possibly even high tier.

Judge Judy · Oct 10, 2008

Some other things: FLUDD shield break kill, punishes moves that put characters into helpless, good spacing tool, momentum killer, and FIHL. FLUDD probally is one of the most underrated moves, but also one of the most useful.

Ray/Boshi · Oct 10, 2008

One thing that FLUDD did with me was entirely thwart Samus' Zair. She could've recovered and grabbed the ledge (She had the correct distance to) But I used the full charged fludd on her, and it pushed her back just enough stop her from doing that, and to a complete stop at that. With her Zair still hanging out and everything. Whenever FLUDD ran out, Her recovery was very predictable, so I just ran off the edge and caped her UpB.

I'd say the FIHL aspect of the FLUDD is something that overtime will progress Mario somewhat. As well as what moves are best to use it on. GW's SH bair is another example. It halts him, makes his few options that's left afterwards very predictable as well for you to correctly punish.
(Or you could proably UpB the Bair, But this about the FIHL)

Judge Judy · Oct 10, 2008

Ray/Boshi said:
I'd say the FIHL aspect of the FLUDD is something that overtime will progress Mario somewhat. As well as what moves are best to use it on. GW's SH bair is another example. It halts him, makes his few options that's left afterwards very predictable as well for you to correctly punish.
(Or you could proably UpB the Bair, But this about the FIHL)

FIHL is a lot safer than Up B, plus you can follow up. Also, the fact that FIHL works on just about any character will probally turn out to be a major plus. Few nice things about the FLUDD are that it isn't affected by stale-move negation, stops disjointed hitboxes, and that priority is not an issue for it. Having the FLUDD and cape gives Mario a lot of punishing options, especially on atks that put characters into helpless.

A2ZOMG · Oct 12, 2008

FLUDD is situational. A lot of its potential lies in mindgames really.

FLUDDing someone halts their momentum if they hold forward, which can screw up spacing and give you more time to anticipate where someone will recover.

If they hold backwards or not at all or if they are in a locked state, they will be moved quite a lot. Very good vs Din's Fire Campers near the edge, PK boys, or people in a shield break tumble. Or can be useful for moving someone to the ledge.

FLUDD stops a number of projectiles, so...basically against projectile campers near the ledge, you can sweep through those and use the FLUDD to push the camper onto the ledge.

FLUDD also forces hitlag on attacks, which again is sort of a spacing disruptor. You can set off mines and counters with FLUDD. Yeah.

All in all a move that doesn't have many straightforward uses.

SkylerOcon · Oct 12, 2008

Alright. Somebody sum it up so we can move to the next one (fireballs).

Matt07 · Oct 12, 2008

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

Pros:
FIHL (FLUUD Induced Hit Lag) works wonders on characters with 'long lasting' aerials, and can help us punish (Game and Watch especially.)
-Combing with the cape, this makes Mario an awesome edgeguarder
-Can also stops projectiles from coming
-Pushes characters back, stopping their approaches.
You FLUDD people to prevent them from edgeguarding.
You can FLUDD backwards to give yourself an extra recovery boost (only when you're above the stage).
-FLUDD stops a number of projectiles, so...basically against projectile campers near the ledge, you can sweep through those and use the FLUDD to push the camper onto the ledge.
-FLUDD'ing someone halts their momentum if they hold forward, which can screw up spacing and give you more time to anticipate where someone will recover.

Cons:
-Ending lag can be punished.
-If you shoot FLUUD too late, or shoot it on the opposite side (I hate when I do that) you can get punished.
-FLUDD is situational.

Again, if I missed anything, post it up

.

HeroMystic · Oct 12, 2008

To add onto Matt's list, FIHL/Approach Killing is AWESOME against Glide Attacks, especially on Metaknight's Shuttle Loop.

Since Metaknight goes into a freefall after a glide attack, it's a free F-smash.

Fun note: I FIHL'd a Metaknight online and did massive punishment after that. After the match he complained to me about lagging.

Matt07 · Oct 12, 2008

HeroMystic said:
To add onto Matt's list, FIHL/Approach Killing is AWESOME against Glide Attacks, especially on Metaknight's Shuttle Loop.

Since Metaknight goes into a freefall after a glide attack, it's a free F-smash.

Fun note: I FIHL'd a Metaknight online and did massive punishment after that. After the match he complained to me about lagging.

Woah, what O.o I never knew it worked against his Glide attack, sweet! :laugh:

SkylerOcon · Oct 12, 2008

Alright. It's been changed to Fireball.

A2ZOMG · Oct 12, 2008

An attack that you can pretty much throw out safely 90% of the time. Since it moves slowly, you can follow behind it for "combos".

Not amazing, but there is no point in not using it.

Matt07 · Oct 12, 2008

Fireball

Pros:
-Key to Mario's approaching. You can practically follow up anything from a Fireball, N-air, Usmash, dash attack, or whatever else you prefer (well I do after using a Fireball.)
-Can prove annoying too characters that can crawl. (they still get hit

)
-Fireballs can help against ledgeguarders.

Cons:
-It travels pretty slow, and can get powershielded easily.
-You can't really camp with Fireballs.

We should do dtilt next, after the Special Attacks are done, because we all know how good that move is, right? :laugh:

BoTastic! · Oct 12, 2008

-Fireballs don't travel as far as they used to.
-Low priority

+Helps protect you while recovering.
+disrupts your oponent's attacks and leads to follow ups.
+Its not too good for camping but its better than not having a projectile at all while retreating.

Kidlat · Oct 12, 2008

One Thing: Fireball pressure when you can

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