The Ice Climbers have the best shield in the game.

Hylian · Oct 3, 2008

You know why?

If they are grabbed they can punish their opponent due to there being two of them.

Normally there is a RPS effect with most characters that goes something like Shields>Attacks>Grabs>Shields. If you shield then you can be grabbed.

The IC's have the awesome ability to completly negate this if they are synched. If both climbers are together and shielding then grabbing them is a bad idea, as Nana can just Fsmash the opponent as soon as they grab popo.

Now what does this mean?

It means that the IC's have an increadible out of shield game. There is almost no reason for the IC's not to shield when being approached. Start focusing on some things IC's can do out of thier shield.

Try out shielding more. It seems silly, but you start to find a ton of things you can do to punish opponents out of shields.

Another thing: Your opponent is afriad of your shield. When you are shielding you have the option to shieldgrab. This means your opponent will almost never attack right in front of you. Most will try and space themselves to that you come out of your shield into thier attack. I can't tell you how many dash attacks I've pulled off just from shielding when my opponent is running at me, and then suddenly dropping my shield and dash attacking. It tends to throw off thier spacing.

Start messing around with your shield game more. You might find something

.

J4pu · Oct 3, 2008

but if you're shielding you're giving up the desync (pattern) that has a greater chance of getting you that grab which essentially wins games for IC's.
Yes their shield is awesome, but they're chain grabs are even more so
... unless you live in Texas, then I feel sorry for you.

(did that TX ban on IC's CG ever get overturned?)

Hylian · Oct 3, 2008

J4pu said:
but if you're shielding you're giving up the desync (pattern) that has a greater chance of getting you that grab which essentially wins games for IC's.
Yes their shield is awesome, but they're chain grabs are even more so
... unless you live in Texas, then I feel sorry for you.

(did that TX ban on IC's CG ever get overturned?)

How do you plan to get any better if you never try new things?

.

And it has been turned into a 5 grabs in a row limit. Doesn't matter though, I can still 0-death even with the old 3 grab limit from one grab lol.

Anyways, this topic is not about that.

choknater · Oct 3, 2008

Hylian you're very smart : ) this is an important asset to IC's, I never thought of it as giving them an advantage in a rock/paper/scissors situation... You're right. I'll try out shielding more.

Hm... I wonder... random thing... does squall/belay teleport Nana after her shield is broken?

Hylian · Oct 3, 2008

choknater said:
Hylian you're very smart : ) this is an important asset to IC's, I never thought of it as giving them an advantage in a rock/paper/scissors situation... You're right. I'll try out shielding more.

Hm... I wonder... random thing... does squall/belay teleport Nana after her shield is broken?

Thank you

.

And I will go test that right now.

Edit:

Belay does not break nana out of the broken shield stun

. I had only nana break her shield and belay...nothing. Then I tried only popo breaking his shield and I had nana belay...still nothing.

Oh well

.

*P*L*U*R* · Oct 3, 2008

If someone grabs the primary climber, could a jab, Blizzard, Block or an Ftilt from the secondary knock the primary out of it while allowing them to retaliate before the opposing player can react?

Crap, I sucked at explaining that. uummmmm

Let's say that a Metaknight grabbed Popo when both ICs were sheilding. The IC main sheilddrops and makes Nana Ftilt the Meta, who then drops Popo. Would the Popo be able to react soon enough to retaliate with a smash, dash grab or even a (!) grab?.

I've gotten in the habit of Dsmashing out of grabs, which is fine, I guess, but it doesn't lead to anything. Maybe this grab counter would help alot.

Miller · Oct 3, 2008

IC Out of shield game is wonderful. You can do any smash you want and it scares the **** out of your opponent when you shield. What else is going to run through their mind besides "Stay away from that shield or I'm going to get violently ***** up the ******* and never return to my family" Thats how devastating IC's OOS is.

FrozenHobo · Oct 3, 2008

i agree, the ICs OOS is fantastic. whenever i have to go on the defensive their OOS can always turn things around so i can possibly get into an edge guarding situation. plus the whole 'nana fsmash while popo's being grabbed' is so much fun to watch. makes up for all of nana's other stupid antics.

IcantWin · Oct 3, 2008

choknater said:
Hylian you're very smart : ) this is an important asset to IC's, I never thought of it as giving them an advantage in a rock/paper/scissors situation... You're right. I'll try out shielding more.

Hm... I wonder... random thing... does squall/belay teleport Nana after her shield is broken?

Yes yes, I too look to Hylian as a very respectable smasher, not that because he's a pro, or to kiss ***, but I've noticed the manners, and the dedication he's put into the game ;D.

I'd like to test this belay teleport w. nana in my spare time, as I second IC's over Falcon (LOL SORRY FALCON FOREVER)

Shielding is an important aspect of the game, very important. With Ice Climbers I think this is more so, especially since their out of shield game is so wonderful.

liverymen · Oct 3, 2008

if popo is grabed and grab attacked the grab attack will also hit nana, if popo is grabbed and instantly thrown, the throw will also hurt nana.

Hylian · Oct 3, 2008

liverymen said:
if popo is grabed and grab attacked the grab attack will also hit nana, if popo is grabbed and instantly thrown, the throw will also hurt nana.

Only if you don't react fast enough

.

Miller · Oct 4, 2008

Hylian said:
Only if you don't react fast enough .

Yea, thats probably what hes doing wrong. As soon as i see popo getting grabbed, I instantly fsmash or just jab depending on who it is

Daimonster · Oct 4, 2008

Most characters can grab ice climbers, when they are in shield, and f.throw them. Depending on said grabbing character, the grab will position the player far enough back so that they don't get hit by nana/popo. Granted pikachu's f.throw doesn't count, he can instead b.throw, leaving him away from the nana/popo.

Miller · Oct 4, 2008

Daimonster said:
Most characters can grab ice climbers, when they are in shield, and f.throw them. Depending on said grabbing character, the grab will position the player far enough back so that they don't get hit by nana/popo. Granted pikachu's f.throw doesn't count, he can instead b.throw, leaving him away from the nana/popo.

You do realize that all of this can be solved by being QUICK ENOUGH WITH YOUR FINGERS

Daimonster · Oct 4, 2008

Yes, I'm sorry for forgetting about perfect reflexes and a lack of mindgames. No sarcasm intended, that is a very strong counterpoint. Just not very realistic.

An opponent can pressure the shield and mix up dash grabbing. In which case, the direction you throw is very important.

Miller · Oct 4, 2008

Daimonster said:
Yes, I'm sorry for forgetting about perfect reflexes and a lack of mindgames. No sarcasm intended, that is a very strong counterpoint. Just not very realistic.

An opponent can pressure the shield and mix up dash grabbing. In which case, the direction you throw is very important.

Just because their mind gaming you doesn't mean your timing becomes any different. Also, out of a dash grab, theres that sliding animation that gives you even more time to react.

Daimonster · Oct 4, 2008

Millar said:
Also, out of a dash grab, theres that sliding animation that gives you even more time to react.

Your right, I'm simply thinking about metaknight. In close tilt range, is very hard to respond to.

Miller · Oct 4, 2008

Daimonster said:
Your right, I'm simply thinking about metaknight. In close tilt range, is very hard to respond to.

Yea man, MK made this game broke.

Extremenerd · Oct 8, 2008

*P*L*U*R* said:
If someone grabs the primary climber, could a jab, Blizzard, Block or an Ftilt from the secondary knock the primary out of it while allowing them to retaliate before the opposing player can react?

Crap, I sucked at explaining that. uummmmm

Let's say that a Metaknight grabbed Popo when both ICs were sheilding. The IC main sheilddrops and makes Nana Ftilt the Meta, who then drops Popo. Would the Popo be able to react soon enough to retaliate with a smash, dash grab or even a (!) grab?.

I've gotten in the habit of Dsmashing out of grabs, which is fine, I guess, but it doesn't lead to anything. Maybe this grab counter would help alot.

Yes, I have done this a few times on a low percentage Lucas. Not often, as I'm usually tapping jab too quick and end up with PoPo doing the 2nd jab attack. It is possible I dont know about other chars though.

ignore the fire · Oct 8, 2008

just on a side note, I would be hesitant to be too predictable with your shield around marth. because ICs can't both perfect shield while synched, a shield breaker will either **** nana or break popos shield.

Just something to keep in mind...

Plum · Oct 10, 2008

A random note, then a serious one...

Random:
Before I saw who started the thread, my first thoughts were that this was a joke thread talking about how Nana is a meat shield for Popo XD

Serious:
As I've only recently started to play ICs, I really haven't gotten used to controlling two characters at the same time. Essentially this means my reactions to when Popo is grabbed are waaay too slow :\
Never even thought of their shield as an advantage! I can see where it can play some serious mind games though. Already my friends back off when I put up my shield just because of the fear of being grabbed, but you have brought it to a new level.

VirtualVoid · Oct 11, 2008

I'm not sure if these things were mentioend or not but here goes anyway:

1. If you opponent lands behind you when you shield and you feel you have enough time to, by all means you should dsmash them because of the high chancs of getting ~50% with it from behind.
2. Synced forward B out of shield is as good as it gets. It is quick, has nice range, not easily punishable and the final hit leads to alot of stuff on low % like uairs or fair to techchasing etc.

brinboy789 · Oct 11, 2008

Hylian said:
Only if you don't react fast enough .

well if your grabbed, cant you spam the C-stick forward? that should be fast enough lol

*P*L*U*R* · Oct 12, 2008

Here's a random thought....

Don't you know how IC can desynch if any one of their synced attacks connect if you input the command during hitlag?

Well... How about desynching during hitlag from an attack that hits your sheild?

I know, I don't have much basis for assuming that this works but it might be crazy enough to work. Can someone test this? I can't do it right now(broken wii.

).

Miller · Oct 12, 2008

*P*L*U*R* said:
Here's a random thought....

Don't you know how IC can desynch if any one of their synced attacks connect if you input the command during hitlag?

Well... How about desynching during hitlag from an attack that hits your sheild?

I know, I don't have much basis for assuming that this works but it might be crazy enough to work. Can someone test this? I can't do it right now(broken wii. ).

**** man, I think I've done that before, It might be possible but not sure. Ill check it out after this family Thanksgiven dinner. Yes here in Canada Thanksgiven is in October

FrozenHobo · Oct 12, 2008

its doable. its easier to get the timing down in training mode at a really slow speed, but i know its doable.

*P*L*U*R* · Oct 12, 2008

YUS! I've done something positive for the boards! =^_^=

*IC high-fives self*

The Ice Climbers have the best shield in the game.

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