Match-Up Discussion #19: Olimar

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 7, 2008

So it's time to do Olimar...

Wolf has the advantage here, since his Blaster can limit Olimars options greatly, no matter how much he powershields or how much he uses his downB invincibility: Blaster stops Olimars most used moves - sideB, grab and fsmash...Wolf is actually the only character, who can outcamp him.
He's also very easy to KO, since he's light and easily edgehogged.

On the other side, he has a surprisingly good selection of finishing moves, which you should always be aware of...he's hard to read and can be a pain in teh @$$ if played by a smart player (I have yet to face one...).

I'd say it's 60:40 wolfs favour, although I'm inclined to say it could be a bit higher too

Snail · Oct 7, 2008

55/45 or 60/40, I dunno. The lasers are really annoying on FD but on any other stage the advantage isn't that big.

Collective of Bears · Oct 7, 2008

I'll say 60:40 or 65:35 in Wolf's favor. Blasters and Shines help greatly IMO, and edgehogging is super-easy.

DanGR · Oct 7, 2008

Your sig is made of 100% win^.

Anyways, is this a thread for a guide? or just matchup odds?

I'd say 60-40 for Wolf.

Blaster spam forces Oli onto the offensive for once. (I'm actually surprised you knew that wolf is the only one that outcamps oli) For this reason, pikmin throw and pivotgrabs (for the most part) won't be very effective versus a patient wolf. Olimar does have an underestimated approaching game, but it's not enough to outweigh wolf's defensive game.

The only thing keeping this matchup closer than an even bigger advantage is Wolf's fall speed, which helps Olimar TREMENDOUSLY in the racking department. Where most characters will get 30% from a single grab combo/string, wolf will get at least 50-60%. I'm pretty sure dthrow>fair>dthrow>dthrow is a true combo. That's before upsmashes>upairs and fsmahes>grab followups and such.

Those are the big points: Wolf has the camping advantage and Olimar has a big racking advantage. I haven't played too many Wolf's though, but from my experience it's about 60-40 wolf. (I beat all three, but they aren't that great either)

Sesshomuronay · Oct 7, 2008

Definately wolf's favor. 60:40 cuz olimar cant camp like he usually does.

Ishiey · Oct 7, 2008

What DanGR said, that's probably the most epic sig I've seen... ever.

Wolf's favor, like everyone else said. Blaster is key, and shine helps a lot too. Keep WAC in mind, that's useful for approaching. He has the chaingrab on you, purple uthrow and blue bthrow kill very nicely so be very wary of grabs (+ his amazing grab range. Pivot grabs are not fun). Olimar is also light and susceptible to gimps (they'll whistle when coming back to prevent that, so just go for hogging), so kills are not much of a problem for either side. His utilt > wolf fsmash in priority, but I guess that's it. Ban norfair, I think frigate orpheon is a good stage to take oli on because of the right side of the first stage.

And pikmin desynchs. Apparently there's been some progress on this ._. it's very difficult to do with any more than two pikmin from what I hear, but one day this will likely be a serious threat. Don't hit his pikmin unnecessarily, because I believe thats what allows the 'desynch'. Olimar mains, please feel free to clarify, I'm not sure how accurate my information is on this.

Chaco · Oct 7, 2008

60:40 Wolf.

Nair to Dsmash is your best friend.

asob4 · Oct 7, 2008

approaching can be annoying, but a nair should cover all our bases

a land cancelled nair will lead to up/down smash or a grab so getting in isn't a problem as most of you think >_>

i've played good wolf's and have managed to beat them even when they camp me

might be me though <_<

55-45 either way imo

Nair to Dsmash is your best friend.

and up tilt is ours :]

Collective of Bears · Oct 7, 2008

asob4 said:
and up tilt is ours :]

However, we've got Ftilt and A for sure.

And thanks for the compliments on my sig.

asob4 · Oct 7, 2008

we have dtilt :o lol

Collective of Bears · Oct 7, 2008

asob4 said:
we have dtilt :o lol

But we have a Landmaster.

/argument

BlackWaltzX · Oct 7, 2008

60-40 Olimar wins.

EDIT))
Blaster only stops scrubs, yes it outcamps, that's why Olimar has to approach, which is fine.
Nair beats all of your smashes, not sure about your tilts.
Nair to Dsmash works very well. At KO time nair to upsmash.
Purple beats your recovery sooo easily.
When we latch and you recover, the pikmin give you lag (especially FB).
Wolf's FB is easy to SA.
We can dthrow CG you to 45%.
Olimar can grab you out of Dsmash and fsmash (Easier out of your fsmash)

Wolf has lasers, which as I said, shouldn't work THAT well on a good player.

I play Olimar now and tried wolf out when I first got him.

If Olimar spams smashes and can't power shield lasers or HOP over them, Wolf wins.
Otherwise, Olimar wins.

asob4 · Oct 7, 2008

finally someone actually agrees with me :D

(my initial thoughts on this match up were the same as yours, but people annoyed me :/)

BlackWaltzX · Oct 7, 2008

asob4 said:
finally someone actually agrees with me :D

(my initial thoughts on this match up were the same as yours, but people annoyed me :/)

When I met the first good wolf to play me (Pav) I thought Wolf was hard for me.
Now I don't.

Darth JoBak · Oct 8, 2008

this is an intriguing matchup, I'm divided on my own experience because I have only had experience against a friend or people who looked like they didnt know what hit them

many of wolf moves kill multiple pikmin, I say 60-40 wolf and my bias and experience feels more like 65-35

tyler___ · Oct 8, 2008

60:40 for teh wolf. He's light, once again which makes for easy kills. I never ever play olimar's so I'm not sure of this but maybe his shine could also get his side b off of Wolf if they land? Not much more I can say other than the usual tactics of course.

Sesshomuronay · Oct 8, 2008

The pistol is really good in this matchup. It forces olimar on the offensive and kicks any picmen off of you.

BlackWaltzX · Oct 8, 2008

Olimar can easily go offensive, especially if you are used to it like I am.
The blaster only hurts recovering Olimars, but then, you guys have the option to grab the ledge for the gimp.

Also, Wolf can be gimped easily if he's at 0* or less to the stage.

I won't say it's personally easy, however, if the Olimar is good at reacting to taking advantage, he can gimp Wolf nearly as easy as Olimar gets gimped.

Olimar's shouldn't fsmash in this matchup.

EDIT) When pikmin are already latched (Side B) your reflector does NOT push them off and you need to attack (Generally blaster).
I'll also say again about dealing 45% or so damage to your stock the entire game when you are at 0%.
Olimar is Wolf's weight or something like that.
Well, Olimar is the same weight as Mario. WOlf is a bit heavier?
Olimar can KO wolf MUCH easier.

EDIT2)) Olimar dies at 75% upwards, Mario at 82% wolf at 88%
Olimar is indeed lighter, but it's not so simple, especially with Olimar's DPS.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 8, 2008

The blaster hurts more than just Olimars recovery. It COMPLETELY calcels his fsmash, sideB and the grab

Sesshomuronay · Oct 8, 2008

Lol @ blackwaltz calling wolf as easy to gimp as olimar. A good wolf will make use of his recovery options while olimar can only up-b. Wolf has quite a few recovery options which can make him unpredictible.

Plus wolf is pretty heavy if you didnt know.

asob4 · Oct 8, 2008

latched pikmin slow your recovery down, allowing us to easily gimp/spike you

Sesshomuronay · Oct 8, 2008

and knocking olimar off the stage will mean death because he cant do anything.

Ishiey · Oct 8, 2008

No. Olimar can recover (somewhat better than people give him credit for), and he can annoy wolf off the stage like crazy. I'm fairly certain most, if not all, of olimar's aerials beat sideB. Both characters have the advantage when the other one is trying to recover, that much is for sure.

As for the blaster, while I still think it's probably wolf's most useful tool in this matchup, it can be worked around by a good olimar player. It's there to handle any pikmin issues to me, more of a defense against them than an actual attempt to attack olimar, it's just stalling until olimar decides to approach.

§witch · Oct 8, 2008

But only his uair has a lasting hit-box.

Ishiey · Oct 8, 2008

True, but I'm assuming that a pro olimar will definitely have the timing skills to fair you out of side b. All of the hitboxes are certainly long enough to be useful though.

asob4 · Oct 8, 2008

dair and nair also last a while
as nair is a multi hitter and dair just stays out for a while (strong in beginning, weak in the end)

BlackWaltzX · Oct 8, 2008

As I said, the olimar can't rely on forward smash OR side b as much.
He has to rely on grabs or nairs more.
Nair outprioritizes most of your attacks besides (I think) upair, bair, nair and fair.
I remove dair because we'll upair you at that point which overides yours.

Nair goes through your smashes in which we can upsmash or usually sweet spot dsmash.

Lasers once again only are there to annoy and force us to approach.

If the Olimar is VERY good at camping, he can actually outcamp the wolf, but this is highly unlikely and wolf 100% has the edge here.

Overall.
Olimar approaches, Wolf runs.
If the wolf is a good maneuverist, he can win. If the Oli is a better chaser, he'll win.
This means if Olimar spams, wolf wins. If Wolf fights wolf loses.

They both can be gimped easily.

Sesshomuronay · Oct 8, 2008

I still think olimars easier to gimp than wolf.

asob4 · Oct 8, 2008

have you played a good olimar?

the only characters who can consistently gimp us are probably MK and peach

Sesshomuronay · Oct 8, 2008

I've played a couple olimars and I usually just went and grabbed the ledge and watched them die after being knocked a big distance.

They werent very good tho.

asob4 · Oct 9, 2008

then i assume you've never been chain grabbed or combo'd to 50-60% after a single grab

Sesshomuronay · Oct 9, 2008

they did do that but I owned them anyway.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 9, 2008

Olimar can't grab Wolf. Period

knightzy · Oct 9, 2008

Some smater Olimar will just fair you with a purple and grab the leage which when i play can kill the wolf,so dont say he cant recover as a purple will get off your edgegrab.i persoaly think it is 55-50 olimar,as you cant really get a clear winner,both have advantages and are good but the both have disavantages mainly recovery,which olimar wins.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 9, 2008

this is just wrong. Olimars options are limited by wolfs blaster. nobody seems to respond, so I'll repeat it: Wolfs blaster cancels olimars grab, his pikmein throw and his fsmash (as well as other moves like dsmash). And that's only Blaster. Even if Olimar had a better recovery than Wolf he's still easier to KO

BlackWaltzX · Oct 9, 2008

Blaster doesn't cancel Olimars grab if the Olimar isn't dumb.
The blaster is your best tool in this fight and all it's used for his camping. Like I already said, Olimar must approach. I wish you played against a good Olimar before saying that all olimar's run into your blaster all of the time.

EDIT )) WOlf has an easier time recovering, Knightzy.

asob4 · Oct 9, 2008

why do people assume olimar players are idiots who will run into everything just to get that one grab off??

Ishiey · Oct 9, 2008

I've never had an olimar (or anyone, actually) just mindlessly run into the blaster. But what are olimar's best approach options against wolf, and what are his best chances at a grab? I never had too much trouble countering the approach or avoiding grabs against an olimar, to be honest...

Sesshomuronay · Oct 9, 2008

asob4 said:
why do people assume olimar players are idiots who will run into everything just to get that one grab off??

Thats kinda similar to how everyone thinks wolf is a terrible recovery character that is easy to gimp. O yea and olimar has trouble getting the grab in because he has to approach.

Fugu15 · Oct 9, 2008

This matchup is 60-40 to olimars favor. But i will assume this is a good olimar that fights out of shield mostly.

Wolf cannot outcamp a good olimar player, period. They will keep throwing pikmin and eventually run in for a grab. Most olimars you can just fair wall and win rather easily, but a very accurate camping olimar is a nightmare for wolf. You get caught in one little grab chain, and only a couple hits later an oli can already start spacing the upsmash for a kill.

Most of the strategies posted here just don't work. And if you still think it's in wolf's favour, try playing AndyG or some other olimar who will pick the blaster wall apart. Olimar can just get kills way too easily and racks up damage too quickly.

Match-Up Discussion #19: Olimar

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