Match-up discussion #22: Zero Suit Samus

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 10, 2008

A new day - a new match-up, this time Zero Suit Samus

She's mean. She has a good aerial game so you better stay on the ground, where Wolf is better. Zamus has some nasty whip attacks, which are hard to perdict if you fight her the first time...

The best thing to do is either stay outside of her whip range or very close - you have the advantage either way. Just don't stay somewhere in between. Outcamp her, when she's far away and pressure her with spaced aerials and tilt, when you're very close. Remember always to DI away your aerials, since her dsmash comboes you - something you want to avoid at any prize. This shouldn't be too hard, just don't do anything silly, when you're close.

Things to watch out for are her speed and her combo ability - she can rack up damage very fast. On the other side she's rather light so finish her asap - the sooner you have a stock lead the better...

Discuss

Sesshomuronay · Oct 10, 2008

Ok wolf vs zamus my 2 mains.

Wolf players have to really look out for D-smashes from ZSS because theres this really cheap D-smash chain that can get you to like a ton of percent(if your really good at DI I think you can get out of it early depending on various things) so watch out for that.

Zamus has the better recovery imo. She has 3 jumps and if you time the up-b right you get a bunch of vertical distance. Good ZSS players wont end up gimped very easily.

Zamus has a good aerial game so thats a bonus for her but wolf generally has a better ground game. Fear not if she begins to air combo you the reflector can really help with this.

Wolf can easily force Zamus to approach with the pistol but she can space pretty good against wolf(by this I mean being out of range of wolfs attacks but in range to whack him with side-b but hes too close to use the blaster) but wolf can also space well against her too using B-airs and things.

Now wolf is heavier than zamus and has stronger moves so he excels in the killing area.

Now overall I feel that wolf has the advantage. He has a very good ranged attack and a lot of lagless attacks like B-air and 0lagged F-air. Zamus dies a lot easier than wolf which is a big factor in this matchup.

Well in conclusion I feel its 60/40 Wolf's favor as he has a lot of good stuff but if your not careful Zamus can easily get in big combos.

Edit: Ok I changed my mind I think its even 50/50.

Bouse · Oct 10, 2008

Zero Suit Samus can Dsmash chain Wolf to upwards of 90%. Meaning... one Dsmash and it could be light's out for a Wolf.

50:50 or
45:55 Zero Suit adv.

Collective of Bears · Oct 10, 2008

Bouse said:
Zero Suit Samus can Dsmash chain Wolf to upwards of 90%. Meaning... one Dsmash and it could be light's out for a Wolf.

50:50 or
45:55 Zero Suit adv.

A Dsmash chain for 90% and you're calling it even?

60:40 at least, IMO.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 11, 2008

Thatd smash is hard to hit with JFYI. Wolf needs to mess his spacin seriously to even add it as a factor...

teekay · Oct 11, 2008

Yeah, dsmash chain isn't nearly as bad as stuff like Falco's chaingrab or Shiek's ftilt lock. It comes out much slower. It boosts Zamus's game against him to be sure but not by a whole lot.

rodrigo_ssbb · Oct 11, 2008

Wolf has the advantage, force her to approach with lasers and then Bair to Fsmash or grab. It's not that hard to keep her Dsmash chain out of play...

DeliciousCake · Oct 11, 2008

Wolf's laser doesn't force an approach since it has limited range and can be ducked under.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 11, 2008

Yeah, Zamus can duck under the laser, something otherwise only Snake and Sheik can do. The blaster is mainly to use when you're outside of her whip range

rodrigo_ssbb · Oct 11, 2008

Wolf's blaster has more range than anything ZSS has, but all i'm saying is that i can't see anything that she has to claim an advantage...

ph00tbag · Oct 11, 2008

Maybe I've just had bad luck, but I've never been able to duck under Wolf's laser if he's standing.

I'm with Sessho. Zamus has almost no approach options against Wolf, and not many reliable combo options. Wolf will have about as much trouble comboing, but he'll definitely have less trouble approaching and KOing. 60-40 seems reasonable.

At least that's my first impression having never played a wolf main, so take it at the value you will.

knightzy · Oct 11, 2008

You people Over-rate wolfs laser too much,there I said it,but honestly it could only be used to keep zero suit samus away,but she can crouch under it or just move out of it's range.

*Puts Up Flame Sheild*

Zsamus has a great spacing game and has parts at the start of the match,keep this in mind, and most of her attacks are quite quick.
She is faster than wolf as well,has a much better recovery and has 3 spikes,that I find wolf is the easiest of the space animals to gimp so keep that in mind aswell.

Overall I would say maybe: 60-40,or 55-45.

-Knightzy.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 11, 2008

Zamus is certainly not faster than Wolf

...just cause she runs faster doesn't mean she fights faster as well

Ishiey · Oct 12, 2008

Zamus has quite a few combos going for her, but besides that, if you avoid dsmash, things shouldn't be too bad. I think, according to something I read on the ZSS boards a while ago, that wolf is the hardest of the spacies to get in the dsmash chain, so it can definitely be worked around. She has some REALLY fast attacks though (utilt) so watch out for those, and maybe shine if you think one is coming up. IMO her best attacks (save a few) don't involve disjointed hitboxes, and those that do are usually slow enough that you can dodge them with something besides shine.

Thecloudmon · Oct 14, 2008

Listen grab Wolf f- throw D-smash combo to 90% also Wolf is Easily pivit Grab So you can Chain grab him till 30- 45 % then D-smash combo i works

DeliciousCake · Oct 14, 2008

You can't d-smash out of f-throw if your opponent knows how to DI or hit jump.

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx · Oct 14, 2008

Hmmm, this is an even match up IMO, I beat chillindude's ZSS in a recent tourney, Zamus has that infinite (which cannot be DI'd out of if done properly) but, in overall combat and if the wolf spaces correctly, it shouldn't be to hard to make the combo %'s up. Zamus finishing moves are just to easy to punish, both can evenly gimp each other, so yeah, I'm gonna go with 50:50.

Snakeee · Oct 15, 2008

It would be Wolf's favor, but the d-smash chain I'd say pushes it to even. It's hard/risky to set up though. I honestly don't enjoy the match up though, and I'd rather stick to using Sheik against Wolf lol

RyokoYaksa · Oct 16, 2008

Zamus ducking under Wolf's blaster? ...what?

Kikuichimonji · Oct 17, 2008

Am I the only one who thinks that some tourney-level videos for evidence would move the conversation up three levels of intelligence?

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 17, 2008

Yeah, you're the only one who thinks so

Snakeee · Oct 17, 2008

I don't think there ARE any ZSS vs. Wolf videos with an anywhere near decent ZSS player (correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt there's anything that will help view the match up)

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 17, 2008

I don't think there are any such vids on a high level. I don't know about any WC or MW Zamus, that means Lucien, GERM and Omniswell perhaps haven't played one. Maybe Candy?

paulzers93 · Oct 18, 2008

Hmm.. I kno this is completely biased but ZSS has the clear advantage over wolves. I do agree with those who say ZSS's aerial game is better than wolves and that wolves ground game is better than ZSS in general, but in that view is where ZSS truly does shine. The grab can be easily used to chain grab Wolf and also Wolf is an excellent victim for the D-Smash Chain as well as the D-Smash to Up B Chain as well. Overall, the best way to deal with wolf is...

FIRST: D-SMASH CHAIN TO 50-70%.
SECOND: D-SMASH x 2 to UP B UP TO A COMFORTABLE KILLING LEVEL
THIRD: THE KILL.

If well-executed this SHOULD work.

Turbo Ether · Oct 18, 2008

Snakeee said:
I don't think there ARE any ZSS vs. Wolf videos with an anywhere near decent ZSS player (correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt there's anything that will help view the match up)

We should find a way to record next time we play. I lost 3-0 in friendlies, but they were still close games. I need to improve how I deal with the armor.

BlueSaber · Oct 19, 2008

Samus has good jumping techniques and can deal lightning fast blows with aer-D-A combo's

Match-up discussion #22: Zero Suit Samus

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