Mew2King
King of the Mews
There are many things to do to make fighting MK easier. Here are some basic tips, although many of this is common knowledge, if any of this isn't here's some stuff that could help you:
Metaknight's shield is HORRIBLE and easily shield stabbed by something like GW's Nair. Even with a full shield I occasionally find myself getting shield stabbed.
Tornado. The top/center of the Tornado is the weak point. If say... DeDeDe jumps above MK and does a falling Bair, it will hit through (of course, if MK makes sure to be horizontal to MK so as that DDD only hits the side of the tornado, the Tornado will win, but most of the time jumping over it and faling on it with Bair is good, at least with DDD. Many moves beat Tornado (most moves in a MK ditto actually), although I don't know the specifics for each one, I'm pretty sure someone was making a list for that somewhere.
You can block Tornado and angle your shield up and be practically invulnerable to tornado the entire time, and then dash grab MK in his lag (with some characters, but most of them can retaliate just fine). Angling your shield up prevents MK from shield stabbing you when he aims it high at your head.
Lastly, and this is very useful, the BEGINNING of Tornado seems to POP PEOPLE UP a lot, so MANY characters (even semi-big ones like Rob) can just DI (or smash DI, which is pushing up really fast as you get hit basically) can just repeatedly hit up on the control stick really fast and escape the Tornado (even semi-big characters like Rob can do this really well). Another MK, or a Game and Watch, (among other characters I probably am not thinking about) can counterattack with a Dair, while most of the characters can simply DI up and try to double jump away (often footstool jumping away). Bowser, DDD, and DK seem to get ***** by Tornado the hardest, so this sometimes helps for them, but not as well as the majority of the characters.
So keep those things in mind: Smash DI up (repeatedly if necessary, although only 1 good one is needed obviously), especially at the beginning of the Tornado. If you see a Tornado coming, just block it (and if necessary, angle your shield up) and you can often counterattack with most characters, and if you predict a Tornado just either stay above MK or prepare for a move that will go through it.
Shuttle Loop. The thing about shuttle loop (an aerial shuttle loop) is that it gimps (a gimp is a low % kill) really well if you don't DI it ....... but increases ONLY SLIGHTLY with % compared to other moves. Basically what this means is, if you make sure to DI it, you will still live to really high %s. I make sure to be holding toward the stage always, so that my DI is at least "decent" and I won't really be "gimped" by it. I also try to stay directly above MK, and sometimes do a falling aerial (Snake Bair, DDD DJ [double jump] Dair, MK DJ Dairs, Lucario's Dair ***** it).
Staying directly above MK will make the odds fairly high that the shuttle loop hits you really weak with the top part of it, sending you almost nowhere, allowing you to land safely. A common way around shuttle loop is to predict it with air dodging which makes a missed shuttle loop easily punished by something like a Wario F smash or slightly charged down smash for example (or staying out of range of it then getting to the edge), but once you do that it starts to become predictible then MK can easily Dair or Nair you after your air dodge lag. Other options are doing an aerial attack that can hit through it or trade (while also holding toward the stage so your DI isn't bad), or mashing double jump dairs (with MK and DDD doing a lot of double jump dairs is a good anti-shuttle loop. Remember that shuttle loop is weak damage wise (8% in air) and it's main purpose is to gimp you without DIing it. If you remember to DI it, while doing a guessing game between aerials or air dodging while making sure to DI towards the stage at all times, you shouldn't get ***** by it too badly. It's purpose is to put you in a bad position, and it's actual priority is really low.
If MK is below you and tries to shuttle loop at the EDGE, you can block the first part and then do either a shield hop fair or bair (depending which way you are facing) or even drop under him and uair/nair. This also counts for a grounded shuttle loop, as if you block the initial rising shuttle loop he is basically saying HIT ME WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT as he glides above you and leaves himself vulnerable to things such as GW's Nair or Uair -> Up smash.
Most Metaknights will down smash twice in a row (even though that's actually not a good idea the vast majority of the time), and between the first down smash and the 2nd there is usually plenty of time to release your shield and counterattack. Also, don't roll behind a down smash happy MK.
The same goes for F Tilt; most MKs will complete all 3 hits of F tilt, allowing you to just wait for it and then grab or shield release to punish. If you want to get into a really good habit though, try getting used to timing something, like a grab or a roll for example, right after you react to the first hit (this is a useful strategy to use against Snake's F tilt with DDD, since DDD can grab snake immediately after the first hit of Snake's F tilt). Marth can up B out of shield (MK can do this too, but MK is only invincible on frame 5, while Marth is invincible frames 1-5, and considering a standing grab from them is frame 6, the difference is small).
Down tilt seems to trip like... 1/3 times? Vidjo said it trips more when it's spaced or hits their feet, and this seems to be true, although it could also be coincidence. It is a defensive move, and usually when I see MKs try to do that to me I roll backwards or try to shield grab (as DDD you can shield grab MK's down tilt since he is leaning over, although I don't know how well this works for the other characters). Rolling backwards is always safe, and since MK's down tilt may or may not trip you, they will usually try to follow up anyway (with like a dash grab or something) so you can immediately counterattack them since you can expect it. The primary purpose is to trip them, and since most people follow up after the first down tilt (either down tilt -> dash grab or down tilt -> down smash), often a good option is to just dodge right away then react to what they do and punish the lag they would have.
Do not try to punish MKs forward smash; the point of forward smash is to use it defensively, since it has a laggy startup but minimal lag afterwords. It reaches through most of MK's body (most of his back counts as a hitbox too, but not quite all of it), and reaches higher than you would think. Most MKs will do another move after missing F smash, so you can often wait for that other move and then strike him. Most of the time I either assume the MK will do a fully charged F smash and attack early (if I'm at low % at least and only risk damage not being KOd), jump over him and Dair, or wait for it to be done, then wait for the next attack they will probably do afterwords (at least in my experience). If you block the F smash, the MK will probably try to down smash you, so expect that often.
If MK does get you a little into the air, most MKs will do 1 of 2 things
1) follow up right away (most of the time the beginner/intermediate MKs do this
2) try to punish your small air dodge landing lag, assuming you will air dodge
If you expect 1, you can simply air dodge right away, then have the advantage in position
If you expect 2, you can either do an aerial attack (like a Fair) while they stand there and just get hit, or you can just double jump away. (varying your fast falls at the last second can also make it harder to time, since landing lag is only 2 frames but most attacks are out for at least 2 frames). I also recommend double jumping away while DIing in 1 direction constantly is the best way to make sure not to get 0-30d from MK's Uairs.
Another VERY interesting thing DSF figured out while playing me the day before Critical Hit 3 is that... he often footstools my head, but later I figured out that I had to just be horizontally space so he couldn't do that, but then he started pivot Bing in air with grenades to change his tragectory instantly or holding grenades so it was dangerous to attack without being really cautious.
Projectiles (GOOD projectiles) are good against MK since he has none and needs to approach you (although he can easily get to you,the reason is cuz being offensive is easier to throw him off, and it is harder for him to camp you if he attempts to). Once MK gets used to you running away and spamming projectiles, he is going to run at you. Once he does this, dash grab him. If Snake is fighting MK, you can grenade camp and then F tilt MK when he runs at you. When MK gets used to that he will eventually start to run and shield, so expect it and dash grab him (into down throw, which is a 50/50 chance of a tilt, or even a tech chase Dair if needed).
If MK grabs you, and you aren't at the edge, you will usually want to DI away. Down throw puts you close to MK with MK having a small advantage in positioning (however, you can air dodge almost right away and guarantee you won't get hit by even a jumping Uair if you time the air dodge right). However, most MK's expect you to DI away when he down throws you, and for good reason - You can DI away and air dodge (I think if you try to air dodge too late you tech roll?) and then the MK will run at you, so you can simply F tilt them (or grab them). I feel like MK has no advantage when he down throws you unless it's at the edge. Bair dash grabs and MK will lag and land behind you for you to attack him.
it's hard to edge guard MK safely, but if you're at really high % already then it's not as bad to go for risky things. Just try to beat MK by %age though, center stage especially.
if MK is fairly far away and tries to drill rush you, you can edge hog at the last second, but make sure to do your normal get up animation at the last split second of your ledge-invinciblity, otherwise you will get stagespiked by the drill. This will make the MK scared of being edge hogged, and will go onto the stage, where you can get a free hit on him. Drill rush generally has a lot of priority, and loses to few moves head-on. I think it's really funny to jump under MK as he recovers with GW and Uair him and then charged up smash his lag or keep uairing him forever.
You can also edge hog MK's up B at the last second to kill him if he is really low when he does it (but they will try to up B you just before then, so you might wanna approach the edge then shield, so that you block the predictible coming up B). On smashville and battlefield MK can fly under it quickly, but on most stages he can't do it [very well]. (If he could you could just run to the other ledge and edge hog it, but I don't know if I've ever even had to do that before). I like invincible-aerial attacks vs MK from the ledge, at least in MK dittos it's good (invincible Nair).
Most MKs down smash after glide attack, so if you are worried that you can't punish after glide attack, just wait until just after the probably-going-to-happen down smash.
If MK does ledge hop fair and you block it it's a free hit for you, and a lot of MKs do this.
If MK lands any aerial in your face (including the commonly done "spaced Fair"), just shield release into a tilt/smash attack. If they try to overspace the fair and pull backwards, just dash grab or dash attack them (dash attack using C stick so it's faster). And I said this before but... if they just run at you and shield, just dash grab them, while other times you can do other moves (like snake F tilt). Did you know that Snake's F tilt, especially the 2nd hit, completely GOES THROUGH a spaced MK fair without even trading if you do it right?
If MK tries to keep DJing away from you and Dairing (something I like to do before Tornadoing the top of people's heads), just throw projectiles at him (or with some characters, Uair him. If it's teams, double team his teammate).
FD and Yoshis Story seem to be MKs worst neutrals, while Lylat is the best (when that counts) and Smashville and Battlefield are ones I personally like, as well as random weird stages. I heard Halberd is bad, and Corneria just depends who MKs opponent is; Corneria could be either horrible or good. Rainbow Cruise is good for MK but that's mostly because of up B gimps and up throw. MK is kind of the same as Fox in melee.
So yeah, those are some random tips I thought of maybe could help you people, but it mostly comes down to fighting MK center stage, use my Tornado tips, and have good DI.
Metaknight's shield is HORRIBLE and easily shield stabbed by something like GW's Nair. Even with a full shield I occasionally find myself getting shield stabbed.
Tornado. The top/center of the Tornado is the weak point. If say... DeDeDe jumps above MK and does a falling Bair, it will hit through (of course, if MK makes sure to be horizontal to MK so as that DDD only hits the side of the tornado, the Tornado will win, but most of the time jumping over it and faling on it with Bair is good, at least with DDD. Many moves beat Tornado (most moves in a MK ditto actually), although I don't know the specifics for each one, I'm pretty sure someone was making a list for that somewhere.
You can block Tornado and angle your shield up and be practically invulnerable to tornado the entire time, and then dash grab MK in his lag (with some characters, but most of them can retaliate just fine). Angling your shield up prevents MK from shield stabbing you when he aims it high at your head.
Lastly, and this is very useful, the BEGINNING of Tornado seems to POP PEOPLE UP a lot, so MANY characters (even semi-big ones like Rob) can just DI (or smash DI, which is pushing up really fast as you get hit basically) can just repeatedly hit up on the control stick really fast and escape the Tornado (even semi-big characters like Rob can do this really well). Another MK, or a Game and Watch, (among other characters I probably am not thinking about) can counterattack with a Dair, while most of the characters can simply DI up and try to double jump away (often footstool jumping away). Bowser, DDD, and DK seem to get ***** by Tornado the hardest, so this sometimes helps for them, but not as well as the majority of the characters.
So keep those things in mind: Smash DI up (repeatedly if necessary, although only 1 good one is needed obviously), especially at the beginning of the Tornado. If you see a Tornado coming, just block it (and if necessary, angle your shield up) and you can often counterattack with most characters, and if you predict a Tornado just either stay above MK or prepare for a move that will go through it.
Shuttle Loop. The thing about shuttle loop (an aerial shuttle loop) is that it gimps (a gimp is a low % kill) really well if you don't DI it ....... but increases ONLY SLIGHTLY with % compared to other moves. Basically what this means is, if you make sure to DI it, you will still live to really high %s. I make sure to be holding toward the stage always, so that my DI is at least "decent" and I won't really be "gimped" by it. I also try to stay directly above MK, and sometimes do a falling aerial (Snake Bair, DDD DJ [double jump] Dair, MK DJ Dairs, Lucario's Dair ***** it).
Staying directly above MK will make the odds fairly high that the shuttle loop hits you really weak with the top part of it, sending you almost nowhere, allowing you to land safely. A common way around shuttle loop is to predict it with air dodging which makes a missed shuttle loop easily punished by something like a Wario F smash or slightly charged down smash for example (or staying out of range of it then getting to the edge), but once you do that it starts to become predictible then MK can easily Dair or Nair you after your air dodge lag. Other options are doing an aerial attack that can hit through it or trade (while also holding toward the stage so your DI isn't bad), or mashing double jump dairs (with MK and DDD doing a lot of double jump dairs is a good anti-shuttle loop. Remember that shuttle loop is weak damage wise (8% in air) and it's main purpose is to gimp you without DIing it. If you remember to DI it, while doing a guessing game between aerials or air dodging while making sure to DI towards the stage at all times, you shouldn't get ***** by it too badly. It's purpose is to put you in a bad position, and it's actual priority is really low.
If MK is below you and tries to shuttle loop at the EDGE, you can block the first part and then do either a shield hop fair or bair (depending which way you are facing) or even drop under him and uair/nair. This also counts for a grounded shuttle loop, as if you block the initial rising shuttle loop he is basically saying HIT ME WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT as he glides above you and leaves himself vulnerable to things such as GW's Nair or Uair -> Up smash.
Most Metaknights will down smash twice in a row (even though that's actually not a good idea the vast majority of the time), and between the first down smash and the 2nd there is usually plenty of time to release your shield and counterattack. Also, don't roll behind a down smash happy MK.
The same goes for F Tilt; most MKs will complete all 3 hits of F tilt, allowing you to just wait for it and then grab or shield release to punish. If you want to get into a really good habit though, try getting used to timing something, like a grab or a roll for example, right after you react to the first hit (this is a useful strategy to use against Snake's F tilt with DDD, since DDD can grab snake immediately after the first hit of Snake's F tilt). Marth can up B out of shield (MK can do this too, but MK is only invincible on frame 5, while Marth is invincible frames 1-5, and considering a standing grab from them is frame 6, the difference is small).
Down tilt seems to trip like... 1/3 times? Vidjo said it trips more when it's spaced or hits their feet, and this seems to be true, although it could also be coincidence. It is a defensive move, and usually when I see MKs try to do that to me I roll backwards or try to shield grab (as DDD you can shield grab MK's down tilt since he is leaning over, although I don't know how well this works for the other characters). Rolling backwards is always safe, and since MK's down tilt may or may not trip you, they will usually try to follow up anyway (with like a dash grab or something) so you can immediately counterattack them since you can expect it. The primary purpose is to trip them, and since most people follow up after the first down tilt (either down tilt -> dash grab or down tilt -> down smash), often a good option is to just dodge right away then react to what they do and punish the lag they would have.
Do not try to punish MKs forward smash; the point of forward smash is to use it defensively, since it has a laggy startup but minimal lag afterwords. It reaches through most of MK's body (most of his back counts as a hitbox too, but not quite all of it), and reaches higher than you would think. Most MKs will do another move after missing F smash, so you can often wait for that other move and then strike him. Most of the time I either assume the MK will do a fully charged F smash and attack early (if I'm at low % at least and only risk damage not being KOd), jump over him and Dair, or wait for it to be done, then wait for the next attack they will probably do afterwords (at least in my experience). If you block the F smash, the MK will probably try to down smash you, so expect that often.
If MK does get you a little into the air, most MKs will do 1 of 2 things
1) follow up right away (most of the time the beginner/intermediate MKs do this
2) try to punish your small air dodge landing lag, assuming you will air dodge
If you expect 1, you can simply air dodge right away, then have the advantage in position
If you expect 2, you can either do an aerial attack (like a Fair) while they stand there and just get hit, or you can just double jump away. (varying your fast falls at the last second can also make it harder to time, since landing lag is only 2 frames but most attacks are out for at least 2 frames). I also recommend double jumping away while DIing in 1 direction constantly is the best way to make sure not to get 0-30d from MK's Uairs.
Another VERY interesting thing DSF figured out while playing me the day before Critical Hit 3 is that... he often footstools my head, but later I figured out that I had to just be horizontally space so he couldn't do that, but then he started pivot Bing in air with grenades to change his tragectory instantly or holding grenades so it was dangerous to attack without being really cautious.
Projectiles (GOOD projectiles) are good against MK since he has none and needs to approach you (although he can easily get to you,the reason is cuz being offensive is easier to throw him off, and it is harder for him to camp you if he attempts to). Once MK gets used to you running away and spamming projectiles, he is going to run at you. Once he does this, dash grab him. If Snake is fighting MK, you can grenade camp and then F tilt MK when he runs at you. When MK gets used to that he will eventually start to run and shield, so expect it and dash grab him (into down throw, which is a 50/50 chance of a tilt, or even a tech chase Dair if needed).
If MK grabs you, and you aren't at the edge, you will usually want to DI away. Down throw puts you close to MK with MK having a small advantage in positioning (however, you can air dodge almost right away and guarantee you won't get hit by even a jumping Uair if you time the air dodge right). However, most MK's expect you to DI away when he down throws you, and for good reason - You can DI away and air dodge (I think if you try to air dodge too late you tech roll?) and then the MK will run at you, so you can simply F tilt them (or grab them). I feel like MK has no advantage when he down throws you unless it's at the edge. Bair dash grabs and MK will lag and land behind you for you to attack him.
it's hard to edge guard MK safely, but if you're at really high % already then it's not as bad to go for risky things. Just try to beat MK by %age though, center stage especially.
if MK is fairly far away and tries to drill rush you, you can edge hog at the last second, but make sure to do your normal get up animation at the last split second of your ledge-invinciblity, otherwise you will get stagespiked by the drill. This will make the MK scared of being edge hogged, and will go onto the stage, where you can get a free hit on him. Drill rush generally has a lot of priority, and loses to few moves head-on. I think it's really funny to jump under MK as he recovers with GW and Uair him and then charged up smash his lag or keep uairing him forever.
You can also edge hog MK's up B at the last second to kill him if he is really low when he does it (but they will try to up B you just before then, so you might wanna approach the edge then shield, so that you block the predictible coming up B). On smashville and battlefield MK can fly under it quickly, but on most stages he can't do it [very well]. (If he could you could just run to the other ledge and edge hog it, but I don't know if I've ever even had to do that before). I like invincible-aerial attacks vs MK from the ledge, at least in MK dittos it's good (invincible Nair).
Most MKs down smash after glide attack, so if you are worried that you can't punish after glide attack, just wait until just after the probably-going-to-happen down smash.
If MK does ledge hop fair and you block it it's a free hit for you, and a lot of MKs do this.
If MK lands any aerial in your face (including the commonly done "spaced Fair"), just shield release into a tilt/smash attack. If they try to overspace the fair and pull backwards, just dash grab or dash attack them (dash attack using C stick so it's faster). And I said this before but... if they just run at you and shield, just dash grab them, while other times you can do other moves (like snake F tilt). Did you know that Snake's F tilt, especially the 2nd hit, completely GOES THROUGH a spaced MK fair without even trading if you do it right?
If MK tries to keep DJing away from you and Dairing (something I like to do before Tornadoing the top of people's heads), just throw projectiles at him (or with some characters, Uair him. If it's teams, double team his teammate).
FD and Yoshis Story seem to be MKs worst neutrals, while Lylat is the best (when that counts) and Smashville and Battlefield are ones I personally like, as well as random weird stages. I heard Halberd is bad, and Corneria just depends who MKs opponent is; Corneria could be either horrible or good. Rainbow Cruise is good for MK but that's mostly because of up B gimps and up throw. MK is kind of the same as Fox in melee.
So yeah, those are some random tips I thought of maybe could help you people, but it mostly comes down to fighting MK center stage, use my Tornado tips, and have good DI.
