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How is Diddy Kong's performance in the elements of Brawl?

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
Okay first off, please read this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199108

Second of all, the reason I am posting this here is because I don't have set-out summaries of Diddy Kong's performance in the elements of Brawl. So, I was wondering if you guys could do it, considering how you guys are the authorities on your own character.

Use this thread to discuss it, and then please post your results in the "Element of Brawl" thread linked above, using this format:

ZONING
  • On the ground
  • In the air
  • Off-stage

SPACING
  • Extreme long distance
  • Long distance
  • Medium distance
  • Short distance

KILLING
  • Killing power
  • Gimping potential

Thanks a bunch.
 

3transfat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
390
Location
Atlanta, GA
I am willing to discuss each point.

ZONING
  • On The Ground
    On the ground, I believe Diddy Kong has a naturally good zoning game given his nimbleness, reach and various ways to approach, such as bananas, dash attack, sliding up smash, et cetera. However, Diddy's situation is unique, given that a large portion of his ground presence relies on his bananas, and if one encounters a player with banana control, however unlikely it may be, Diddy immediately falls backwards in this area as long as his opponent can keep his bananas in check. This may or may not force the player to stop using bananas, which many players seem to rely on or, continue their efforts.
  • In The Air
    In the air, Diddy's zoning is probably medium. Diddy's forward aerial attack has good reach, and his backward aerial is a good approach, due to lack of lag and relatively high priority. His downward aerial, which can spike an opponent at the top of his fists, has the ability to keep opponents at bay, and the same can be said for his Fair, which has high killing ability. Diddy can move around fairly well in the air, has two spikes (Rocket Barrel and Dair) and a fairly good recovery, given the Monkey Flip and the Rocket Barrels.
  • Off-Stage
    Off stage, Diddy has the unique ability to spike and recover at the same time, which will often keep opponents who do not know the player or Diddy as well at bay. The good maneuverability allows players to sway back and forth in the air, and the Monkey Flip has good reach and will work not only as a spike, but even more recovery for Diddy. Diddy is dangerous to approach off stage, and it is dangerous to be off stage versus a player who knows how to play off of the stage.

ZONING IN ORDER OF BEST TO WORST
  1. On The Ground - Above Average
  2. Off-Stage - Average
  3. In The Air - Average

SPACING
  • Extreme Long Distance
    At an extreme long distance, Diddy is good. The ability to shoot and throw peanuts and glide tossing allow for control over the space in between him and his opponent. Unfortunately, these are Diddy's only projectiles and neither can reach quite as far as need be in this situation. This situation is best for pulling out bananas if you are under pressure.
  • Long Distance
    At a long distance, Diddy is better, but still not at his best. The peanuts and the bananas can now reach closer and\or the opponent themselves. This can allow Diddy to approach however, given his average speed, he may not be able to reach his opponent in sufficient time to start a combo. Whats more, most of Diddy's combo starting moves will not reach this point unless you run at your opponent, but would that not put you at medium range?
  • Medium Range
    Medium range is Diddy's best. The dash attack, Monkey Flip, sliding up smash, uncharged popgun and bananas all reach at this distance, and can easily start combos. Most Diddy players will want to keep at this distance unless pulling out a banana, as doing so in this case would leave you vulnerable. Everything about Diddy is good at this range.
  • Close Range
    At close range, Diddy Kong has potential. The singular jab, the jab combo, the downward tilt, the upward tilt and the sliding up smash are your best options here. All of these attacks are very quick and have decent knockback and combo ability. The jab combo will put an opponent (depending on weight) at medium range allowing for a dash attack -> anything, depending on how you hit with it.

SPACING IN ORDER OF BEST TO WORST
  1. Medium Range - Amazing
  2. Close Range - Above Average
  3. Long Distance - Average
  4. Extreme Long Distance - Below Average

KILLING
  • Killing Power
    Killing power is Diddy's weak point, unfortunately. His two strongest moves are forward smash and downward smash. In the case of forward smash, it has two hits, the first, weaker hit, and the stronger, killing hit. The first hit can be directionally influenced and such allowing the opponent to escape from it. The downward smash sweeps around him and retains good knockback near the end of the move. Both of these moves will not kill a heavy character until around 150% damage. But Diddy has other options. His forward aerial, upward aerial, forward throw and upward tilt all have the potential to kill. These moves will not kill a heavy character until around 170% damage however. It is with Diddy's excellent ability to rack up damage comes this cost of low killing potential.
  • Gimping Potential
    However, Diddy has an excellent ability to gimp. His good recovery allow for a few mindgames (jumping out at an opponent, making them airdodge, Monkey Flip away) and the like. Diddy also has three spikes. His downward aerial spikes very well and it spikes at the top of the fists even at the end of the move. His Rocket Barrels spike at the bottom of the barrel, simultaneously allowing recovery and a KO. The monkey flip, if the kick is not activated, also has spiking potential. When Diddy latches on to the opponent, the two will sink quickly, and once low enough, a Diddy player will tap up on the control stick, which makes Diddy jump off of his opponent, simultaneously allowing for even more recovery as well as a KO.

KILLING IN ORDER OF BEST TO WORST
  1. Gimping Potential - Above Average
  2. Killing Power - Below Average
 

bludhoundz

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
525
Location
New York, NY
Zones of combat:

On the ground: Diddy is combo king here. Smart opponents can fight against his ground game, but many characters will prefer to take to the air against him, due to his great ground stage control with bananas. He is also good against aerial characters thanks to the way his peanuts arc, and his fast and ok ranged dtilt. Above Average

In the air: Diddy is okay here. His moves aren't really fast or really ranged, but each has a good use. Bair is fast and spammable with decent knockback. Fair has a pretty good range and good knockback. Dair is a strong spike. Uair has little range but can kill off the top. Nair isn't too hot. I'm not sure what Diddy's aerial mobility is, but he also has his Diddy Hump to move left or right while in the air. Average

Offstage: Diddy can recover pretty far, so offstage is a decent combat zone for him. His up b spikes, in addition to becoming a possible threat if the opponent tries to hit him out of it (rogue barrels do 18% with high knockback). He isn't as safe as some characters due to a lack of range on his attacks and speed, but he has projectiles to protect himself with and decent options in general (he can also wall cling / wall jump as part of his recovery, which is helpful in getting back onstage or edgeguarding). Average

Spacing:

Extreme Long Distance: this is bearable for Diddy. He has no projectiles that reach really far, unless you charge up a peanut all the way, and you can't spam this. I'll also assume a glide tossed banana does not reach an opponent at extreme long distance.

Long Distance: This is comfortable for Diddy. Some characters might be able to spam projectiles at him, but he has his own and he doesn't have a huge issue with closing the gap a little, especially with glide tossing which covers his movement with a moving hitbox.

Medium Distance: Diddy is comfortable here. Bananas can be thrown (backwards glide toss if you're being defensive, forward for offensive), peanuts can be used as an anti-air tool. This is his best range to begin combos at.

Short Distance: this is bearable for Diddy. He has some fast tilts (utilt, dtilt), but they aren't the most ranged or the fastest. He has a decent grab game, but he can't really start combos at this range.

Killing:

Killing Power: Diddy's Fsmash and Dsmash are his strongest moves. Many of the heavier characters can survive until 130-140% before a fresh one of these kills them. Fair, fthrow and ftilt are also decent finishers. He isn't too great at killing, so I'd say below average.

Gimping potential: Diddy has three spikes, a fairly long recovery, 2 projectiles (3 if you count 2 bananas & 1 peanut). He is pretty good at harrassing recovery. I'd say above average.
 

UnSaxon51

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I agree with bludhoundz analysis on almost all points. The only thing I'd say differently is that Diddy is still Comfortable at short distance, it's just not his ideal spacing. Otherwise I think it fits pretty well.
 

IDK

Smash Lord
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Mar 28, 2008
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great idea for a thread. i was hoping the guy would do this for every character anyway. should be very useful. note that it also helps for fighting against that character too.
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
Hello fellows.

I am going to use bludhoundz's analysis as shown below, simply because it is more easily formatted for me than the other one and the proper ratings system, hehehe.

Zones of combat:

On the ground: Diddy is combo king here. Smart opponents can fight against his ground game, but many characters will prefer to take to the air against him, due to his great ground stage control with bananas. He is also good against aerial characters thanks to the way his peanuts arc, and his fast and ok ranged dtilt. Above Average

In the air: Diddy is okay here. His moves aren't really fast or really ranged, but each has a good use. Bair is fast and spammable with decent knockback. Fair has a pretty good range and good knockback. Dair is a strong spike. Uair has little range but can kill off the top. Nair isn't too hot. I'm not sure what Diddy's aerial mobility is, but he also has his Diddy Hump to move left or right while in the air. Average

Offstage: Diddy can recover pretty far, so offstage is a decent combat zone for him. His up b spikes, in addition to becoming a possible threat if the opponent tries to hit him out of it (rogue barrels do 18% with high knockback). He isn't as safe as some characters due to a lack of range on his attacks and speed, but he has projectiles to protect himself with and decent options in general (he can also wall cling / wall jump as part of his recovery, which is helpful in getting back onstage or edgeguarding). Average

Spacing:

Extreme Long Distance: this is bearable for Diddy. He has no projectiles that reach really far, unless you charge up a peanut all the way, and you can't spam this. I'll also assume a glide tossed banana does not reach an opponent at extreme long distance.

Long Distance: This is comfortable for Diddy. Some characters might be able to spam projectiles at him, but he has his own and he doesn't have a huge issue with closing the gap a little, especially with glide tossing which covers his movement with a moving hitbox.

Medium Distance: Diddy is comfortable here. Bananas can be thrown (backwards glide toss if you're being defensive, forward for offensive), peanuts can be used as an anti-air tool. This is his best range to begin combos at.

Short Distance: this is bearable for Diddy. He has some fast tilts (utilt, dtilt), but they aren't the most ranged or the fastest. He has a decent grab game, but he can't really start combos at this range.

Killing:

Killing Power: Diddy's Fsmash and Dsmash are his strongest moves. Many of the heavier characters can survive until 130-140% before a fresh one of these kills them. Fair, fthrow and ftilt are also decent finishers. He isn't too great at killing, so I'd say below average.

Gimping potential: Diddy has three spikes, a fairly long recovery, 2 projectiles (3 if you count 2 bananas & 1 peanut). He is pretty good at harrassing recovery. I'd say above average.
Sound good?

Also, I added an extra "Survivability" section, and here is Diddy's analysis (rated from Easy, Intermediate, Difficult)

  • Recovery: Diddy's recovery is deceptively awesome. His Side+B, if not turned into a kick, still allows him to do a second jump, meaning he can do it for relatively safe lateral recovery at any time. If it grabs an opponent, he can essentially turn it into a spike. His Up+B, while requiring charging, is also relatively safe since, if the opponent unsuccessfully hinders him off-stage, they also risk getting spiked by the barrel cannons. This makes opponents think that it's not worth risking approaching Diddy off-stage if he is in the middle of recovery. All in all, surprisingly good. Rating: Easy
  • Staying Power: Diddy is small and light and his spacing for playing keep-away isn't the best since his game primarily relies on comboing with bananas rather than poking. Rating: Difficult.

I actually think I am wrong on this one, so feel free to bash it.

And if I can add correctly, that makes his total score 30.
 

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
Hello fellows.

I am going to use bludhoundz's analysis as shown below, simply because it is more easily formatted for me than the other one and the proper ratings system, hehehe.



Sound good?

Also, I added an extra "Survivability" section, and here is Diddy's analysis (rated from Easy, Intermediate, Difficult)

  • Recovery: Diddy's recovery is deceptively awesome. His Side+B, if not turned into a kick, still allows him to do a second jump, meaning he can do it for relatively safe lateral recovery at any time. If it grabs an opponent, he can essentially turn it into a spike. His Up+B, while requiring charging, is also relatively safe since, if the opponent unsuccessfully hinders him off-stage, they also risk getting spiked by the barrel cannons. This makes opponents think that it's not worth risking approaching Diddy off-stage if he is in the middle of recovery. All in all, surprisingly good. Rating: Easy
  • Staying Power: Diddy is small and light and his spacing for playing keep-away isn't the best since his game primarily relies on comboing with bananas rather than poking. Rating: Difficult.

I actually think I am wrong on this one, so feel free to bash it.

And if I can add correctly, that makes his total score 30.
I'd actually say his recovery is not "Easy".

It happens every now and then that I'm not angleing his upB right. So that I won't hit the ledge and explode on the ceiling or something.
His side B Is also a bit risky imo, so one shouldn't abuse it because the enemy might take advantage of your "helpless" moving.
It's also easy to hit Diddy out of his upB. Then the Diddy can't really recovery anymore (if he's not above the stage-height or something)
It's also noteworthy that Diddy is screwed if he somehow get's meteor smashed and doesn't has his second jump left, because of the upB glitch thing (which gives him a fast downward momentum while he's charging the barrels).

Keeping alive:
Well it is not THAT difficult. You can space really well with bananas and the glidetoss.
Sometimes I just glidetoss back all the time and hit them with the bananas.
It's also easy to follow up after a banana so it's not that risky to hit the enemy.
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
I have a question.

Why did you guys say his ground game isn't Amazing? I think it's pretty amazing, considering he is one of the only characters that can actually do really long chains of combos on the ground (actually, I think the only character).

In fact, I'm going to mark it as "Amazing" until otherwise.
 
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