(new?) real combo for falcon - autocancel'd Dair>Up b = 2 consecutive hits

Zeallyx · Oct 21, 2008

I tested it in training mode and was surprised by the result
Autocancel'd Dair>Up B CAN be a real combo only there is one condition:
It only is a real combo if the opponent trips from the Dair (wich isn't a real problem cause it happens quite often at lower percents, before they are send upward by the Dair, in wich case a Knee is a better follow up)
So this is how to do it:
On on opponent who is standing on the ground:
Run towards opponent>Sh immediatly Dair>DI away from opponent>autocancel>Up b = 2 consecutive hits!
*is happy*
I'm not sure if this is known, but it sure is cool IMO
again: It is only a REAL combo if the opponent trips from the Dair (so I guess this is more a combo to perform at lower percents)

PS: thanks face124 for the idea to mess around with up b :D

Edit: it does 26 % damage if done with 'fresh' moves (when no diminishing in damage/knockback has occured yet)

Roager · Oct 21, 2008

If it's at lower percents, and they dont trip, wouldn't they not go high enough to hit with knee or whatever else? What then? Falcon kick? Raptor Boost?

Zeallyx · Oct 21, 2008

Roager said:
If it's at lower percents, and they dont trip, wouldn't they not go high enough to hit with knee or whatever else? What then? Falcon kick? Raptor Boost?

if you hit them with an autocancel'd Dair at lower percents and they don't trip, up b still works wonders only then it isn't a real combo.
but if you mean wich other move, I think raptor boost is better as it can set up for an arial or two

Roager · Oct 21, 2008

Okay. I just figured dive wouldn't work if they didnt trip.

Zeallyx · Oct 21, 2008

Roager said:
Okay. I just figured dive wouldn't work if they didnt trip.

oh ok, well luckily it does as they unfortunatly don't always trip after a Dair
(but just to avoid confusion, it only is a REAL combo if your opponent does trip)

legion598 · Oct 21, 2008

well even if it isnt a consecutive hit without tripping its still inescapable since they would only have time to throw a shield up and falcon dive goes thru shields right? :D

Zeallyx · Oct 21, 2008

legion598 said:
well even if it isnt a consecutive hit without tripping its still inescapable since they would only have time to throw a shield up and falcon dive goes thru shields right? :D

:D if this is indeed the case this would make it even better ( I mean if they only have the time to throw up a shield)
like falcon would say: YES!!

PS: If I'm the one who discovered it (?) I can name it right :D?
what about: 'Dair Dive Combo' ?

Gmoney_ · Oct 21, 2008

yeah he does

YesISpeakChinese · Oct 21, 2008

if you were goin for the trip wouldn't the flub knee be a better way to do it at lower percents?
i actually didn't know d-air tripped o.o

Ayaz18 · Oct 21, 2008

I think this has been discovered before, wayyyyy back in the day

the YES combo! is what it was called I think

Zeallyx · Oct 21, 2008

YesISpeakChinese said:
if you were goin for the trip wouldn't the flub knee be a better way to do it at lower percents?
i actually didn't know d-air tripped o.o

the flub knee takes to long to land and auto cancel to actually follow up with up B :/

YesISpeakChinese · Oct 21, 2008

Ayaz18 said:
I think this has been discovered before, wayyyyy back in the day

the YES combo! is what it was called I think

yup, just explained it instead of the possibility of having to explain it later

@to knee
its been proven to be a combo when the flub knee trips which is around >30% like ayaz said

lol at sig edit ayaz

Yoshi Kirishima · Oct 21, 2008

Sweet :D go falcon

MonkE · Oct 22, 2008

I am glad to see more combos being found for falcon mebe eventually he will move up on the tier list :D

da K.I.D. · Oct 22, 2008

no he wont,

but he will always be the pennacle of manliness

Sesshomuronay · Oct 22, 2008

Kool I gotta test this on one of my buddies sometime. Im not really much of a serious falcon player but he really is fun to play and with discoveries like this he might be getting slightly better like maybe 2nd or 3rd worst instead of being the worst.

wangston · Oct 22, 2008

People have the dumbest names for canceling aerials moves. By auto canceling do you mean immediately dair and have the move finished before you land so there is only the slight lag for landing OR do you mean the other form of cancel when you finish a movie in a certain frames into the ground and it removes the lag?

Autocancelling is when an aerial's animation is cancelled at a certain point in its duration by touching the ground. This puts the character into their nuetral standing position out of which any move can be done. This is usually during the begining of the aerial's animation although the time window is slightly different for each.

Captain Falcon
Uair, Nair

I'm assuming that you are talking about finishing the move before you land because dair isn't on the list of autocancelled aerials unless the list is missing it.

Zeallyx · Oct 22, 2008

wangston said:
People have the dumbest names for canceling aerials moves. By auto canceling do you mean immediately dair and have the move finished before you land so there is only the slight lag for landing OR do you mean the other form of cancel when you finish a movie in a certain frames into the ground and it removes the lag?

I'm assuming that you are talking about finishing the move before you land because dair isn't on the list of autocancelled aerials unless the list is missing it.

then the list is missing it
it's most easily done this way (IMO):
hold down on the joystick then pess X and then slide your finger over the a button immediatly (while holding the joystick down) it does auto cancel, and if you were calling me dumb(?), I didn't make the name and I learned it from this site..so it is in one of the stickies

wangston · Oct 22, 2008

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
then the list is missing it
it's most easily done this way (IMO):
hold down on the joystick then pess X and then slide your finger over the a button immediatly (while holding the joystick down) it does auto cancel, and if you were calling me dumb(?), I didn't make the name and I learned it from this site..so it is in one of the stickies

No no no no no no. I'm not calling you dumb, I'm just saying the way people named the two things like 5 months ago and it created confusing among members. So do you know what part of the animation I should be landing on to get it to auto cancel?

Zeallyx · Oct 22, 2008

wangston said:
No no no no no no. I'm not calling you dumb, I'm just saying the way people named the two things like 5 months ago and it created confusing among members. So do you know what part of the animation I should be landing on to get it to auto cancel?

no I'm not sure wich part, all I'm sure about is taht you have to Dair IMMEDIATLY after starting your short hop

wangston · Oct 22, 2008

so are you fast falling the move to get it to cancel when it hits the ground? Or is the move finishing right before you land?

Zeallyx · Oct 22, 2008

wangston said:
so are you fast falling the move to get it to cancel when it hits the ground? Or is the move finishing right before you land?

don't fastfall

wangston · Oct 22, 2008

so this is the "auto canceling" of finishing a move before you land. Not the one were you interrupt the move by landing and have no lag.

Zeallyx · Oct 22, 2008

wangston said:
so this is the "auto canceling" of finishing a move before you land. Not the one were you interrupt the move by landing and have no lag.

I'm not sure
but why does it matter? it's a short hopped Dair with lil/no lag

wangston · Oct 22, 2008

It matters because they are two different things. But I'm pretty sure of what you are talking about, immediately use a dair and it finishes before you land and you have no lag.

Mit · Oct 22, 2008

I was just talking to someone about this the other day as well wangston.

It isn't an autocanceled dair, it's just short hop dair. Common misconception on this board apparently. There's nothing that cancels about short hop dair, you simply do a really fast dair after short hopping so that the animation is completed before you land, resulting in no lag.

Auto canceling is when you're actually somewhere in the middle of the attack animation, and land on the ground and the animation stops automatically. If you land on the ground anywhere in the middle of Falcon's dair animation, you will have lag, there's no auto canceling it.

So yeah, everyone should be saying SH dair, not AC dair.

Thee Incubus · Oct 22, 2008

Mit said:
I was just talking to someone about this the other day as well wangston.

It isn't an autocanceled dair, it's just short hop dair. Common misconception on this board apparently. There's nothing that cancels about short hop dair, you simply do a really fast dair after short hopping so that the animation is completed before you land, resulting in no lag.

Auto canceling is when you're actually somewhere in the middle of the attack animation, and land on the ground and the animation stops automatically. If you land on the ground anywhere in the middle of Falcon's dair animation, you will have lag, there's no auto canceling it.

So yeah, everyone should be saying SH dair, not AC dair.

This post needs to be stickied in this forum XD
I have been trying the falcon alot recently and this very thing has confused the heck out of me whe trying to get consecutive dairs.

I'm still having trouble, I guess I just need to practice. It just doesn't seem to go as fast as I've seen people do it.

wangston · Oct 22, 2008

Mit said:
I was just talking to someone about this the other day as well wangston.

It isn't an autocanceled dair, it's just short hop dair. Common misconception on this board apparently. There's nothing that cancels about short hop dair, you simply do a really fast dair after short hopping so that the animation is completed before you land, resulting in no lag.

Auto canceling is when you're actually somewhere in the middle of the attack animation, and land on the ground and the animation stops automatically. If you land on the ground anywhere in the middle of Falcon's dair animation, you will have lag, there's no auto canceling it.

So yeah, everyone should be saying SH dair, not AC dair.

QFT

Yeah it's a common misconception and it leads to more confusion. We should call it a SH immediate dair or something like that.

Tenki · Oct 22, 2008

SH insta D-air?

Ayaz18 said:
I think this has been discovered before, wayyyyy back in the day

the YES combo! is what it was called I think

YES combo used a flub knee.

Hey guys, random idea that I haven't tried:

D-air on grounded opponent > SH footstool (there's a FH footstool and SH footstool) > ???

With Sonic, I usually use a footstool on an aerial opponent to set up for a techchase spindash, but I guess Falcon can pull off some other forms of punishment from it.

Zeallyx · Oct 22, 2008

Tenki said:
SH insta D-air?

YES combo used a flub knee.

Hey guys, random idea that I haven't tried:

D-air on grounded opponent > SH footstool (there's a FH footstool and SH footstool) > ???

With Sonic, I usually use a footstool on an aerial opponent to set up for a techchase spindash, but I guess Falcon can pull off some other forms of punishment from it.

does this mean I discovered this :D!?

and about your idea: maybe you can end with an arail falcon kick or even a knee :D
seems like a good idea to me

Tenki · Oct 22, 2008

lol if you played Falcon gambling on correct reading as much as I do...

footstool > techpredict: roll > falcon punch

Zeallyx · Oct 22, 2008

Tenki said:
lol if you played Falcon gambling on correct reading as much as I do...

footstool > techpredict: roll > falcon punch

lol yeah :D

but but did I discover the Dair>up b combo? :D?
I wanna know XD

Tenki · Oct 22, 2008

probably not.

but judging from the threads you've created recently with the D-air> x, you might be the one to reignite people looking at the D-air as a useful move since the D-air>Knee combo/setup was made public.

You should try to get %s up for a middleweight like Mario or something, cause everyone seems to have some kind of Mario > x character weight converter lol

YesISpeakChinese · Oct 22, 2008

Tenki said:
lol if you played Falcon gambling on correct reading as much as I do...

footstool > techpredict: roll > falcon punch

if you can do that consistently you're my idol LOL

@MIT
there is a clear difference between one not auto canceled and one that is
try full hopping a d-air and landing after the d-air's is executed (there is still lag)
falcon goes directly into the standing position when there is a auto-canceled d-air
@Wangster
The d-air can certainly be auto canceled when auto canceled falcon proceeds to d-air and at the moment of landing go directly into a neutral standing position which allows the player to immediately follow up with a move and in d-air's case sometimes a combo.
If the d-air was not canceled the landing would be rather laggy with a noticeable landing image/graphic/visual/?? (<--- ?? don't know the right word and its bugging me

)

Mit · Oct 22, 2008

I shall try it tonight, but I am fairly positive that if you don't fastfall dair from a full jump, and complete the animation, you won't have lag, which is the same thing as when you short hop dair.

EDIT: I get it now. You really do have to do the dair ultra quick to cancel the lag, although still, you're doing it so quick such that you finish out all the frames that can result in lag, technically still making it a SH dair, but I'd say the skill involved in doing it makes it worthy of AC dair (since if you just say SH dair people might not get how hard it is to cancel that lag).

After fiddling with it though, this is some hard stuff to do @_@ Especially moving. If we're gauging these combos off of jumping straight up and hitting them (no forward momentum), there's no way you'd ever get that off against an opponent. It also seems to only work at certain, lower percents (lest your opponent go flying into the air after you dair him). It's also a lot more difficult to hit shorter opponents with.

I suppose these can be combos, but I wonder if they're worth investigating and incorporating into your actual play. We need to find more stuff like flub knee -> uair >_>

Zeallyx · Oct 23, 2008

Mit said:
I shall try it tonight, but I am fairly positive that if you don't fastfall dair from a full jump, and complete the animation, you won't have lag, which is the same thing as when you short hop dair.

EDIT: I get it now. You really do have to do the dair ultra quick to cancel the lag, although still, you're doing it so quick such that you finish out all the frames that can result in lag, technically still making it a SH dair, but I'd say the skill involved in doing it makes it worthy of AC dair (since if you just say SH dair people might not get how hard it is to cancel that lag).

After fiddling with it though, this is some hard stuff to do @_@ Especially moving. If we're gauging these combos off of jumping straight up and hitting them (no forward momentum), there's no way you'd ever get that off against an opponent. It also seems to only work at certain, lower percents (lest your opponent go flying into the air after you dair him). It's also a lot more difficult to hit shorter opponents with.

I suppose these can be combos, but I wonder if they're worth investigating and incorporating into your actual play. We need to find more stuff like flub knee -> uair >_>

it's not as hard as you say it is actually, and if you run>SH Dair>DI away from opponent>lag cancel>up b, it is very possible to do on an opponent
the thing I agree with though is that it is hard to do on smaller opponents

Edit: mit your sig is made of win

Face124 · Oct 23, 2008

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
it's not as hard as you say it is actually, and if you run>SH Dair>DI away from opponent>lag cancel>up b, it is very possible to do on an opponent
the thing I agree with though is that it is hard to do on smaller opponents

Edit: mit your sig is made of win agreed

Unfortunately, its escapable. There is something wrong with the combo counter that when someone trips, the thing thinks that they are somehow unable to get up. the opponent can simply get up or roll away to avoid it.
this is a video showing that the combo counter says that SH D-air(trip) to falcon punch is a combo, when it blatently isn't:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=toierHmWezM
Sorry , its ecapable

Zeallyx · Oct 23, 2008

Face124 said:
Unfortunately, its escapable. There is something wrong with the combo counter that when someone trips, the thing thinks that they are somehow unable to get up. the opponent can simply get up or roll away to avoid it.
this is a video showing that the combo counter says that SH D-air(trip) to falcon punch is a combo, when it blatently isn't:

Sorry , its ecapable

it's not escapable that way, cause I think that you can't roll or get up fast enough, it happens quite fast

and yeah a falcon punch isn't fast enough

but a up b is..I think

Face124 · Oct 23, 2008

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
it's not escapable that way, cause I think that you can't roll or get up fast enough, it happens quite fast

and yeah a falcon punch isn't fast enough

but a up b is..I think

I tried it with my bro, it doesn't work.

sorry i forgot to give you the d-air to falcon punch video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=toierHmWezM

Zeallyx · Oct 23, 2008

Face124 said:
I tried it with my bro, it doesn't work.

sorry i forgot to give you the d-air to falcon punch video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=toierHmWezM

ah I see, too bad
but can you help me test the Dair>Utilt, to see if it really is inescapable
from what I tested (on a human player) one could only airdodge and the utilt would still connect

if so, and it turns out be inescapable *hopes* could you upload it to youtube?

(new?) real combo for falcon - autocancel'd Dair>Up b = 2 consecutive hits

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