Week 15 Matchup: Lucario

Lucario



General Discussion

At first it seemed like whoever used pika also used lucario. But as time goes on that trend is dwindling. It seems that their playstyles differ enough to make this matchup very interesting. This matchup is one of pikas most finesse matchups that you will ever encounter. But why is this? It is not because lucario is pikas worst matchup. It is not because lucario beat pika in every way. It is because lucario beat our aerials in every way AND becuase as pika players we do not care as much as others how high the percentage gets since we need to in order to kill. But, as lucario get more damage, the stronger he becomes. And the stronger he becomes, the more vulnerable we are. Leading us to become more finesse to not even get hit as by a single jab.

Pika's Advantages

1. The Mst Important- Speed
2. Better ground game
3. Better at approaching

Pika's Disadvantages

1. A spammable projectile that always equals/beats pikas
2. Much better airiel game
3. The need to kill faster

Strategy for Winning

A New Look

Now I know that most of my matchup guides follow a certain guideline. With lucario I am going to write it differently and you can tell me what you really think about it.

Lucario's Health

First and very foremost the pika player needs to be aware that the higher lucarios percentag gets, the more powerful his attacks are. Especially once he hits 150%, which is very likely with pika since we play to damage. Once he gets into the higher percents, his game plan will change since it will be a lot easier to kill you.

The Aura Sphere(AS)

Lucario has one advantage over pikachu that is very annoying and can mean the difference in the matchup if you do not know how to handle it. Unlike snake or marth where they have to jab to cancel the tjolt, lucario can send a projectile back at you, but at an even faster rate and with more priority depending on time charged. Making us, the projectile master, now the prey of projectile spamming. His aura sphere(nuetral b-AS) can cancel out our tjolt. But that also means our tjolt can cancel out his AS. Yay. But, a medium charged AS can cancel out our tjolt and eat it and keep coming. Not good. Recommendations, pshield. Another one, jump over it. Whatever you do, do NOT spotdodge it.

Now I read something and watched a few vids and it seems to be a little true. If you do decide to jump over it, watch what the lucario player is going to do. Do not watch yourself. The lucario might follow it up with another AS or attack. You are in the air and now in his domain. Watch out for a fair or nair. It is very plausible that lucario will want to attack you when you don't expect it.

General Notes

Now the thing that lucarios worry about the most is the fair and the dsmash. They know how to DI out of it and to combat our fair. This means that you may have to learn to play without your fair and dsmash as much as you might in other matches. Please do not freak out. I have good news. I have studied vids and no matter what they say in the lucario threads, spamming tjolt does work and so does the fair. The dsmash is good to stop the lucarios from rolling around you. But that will be talked about later.

The best thing to do when fighting lucario is to keep him on the ground. Getting him in the air and fighting an aeriel game can result in death. His air game is stronger, better and has more range than ours. You may get lucky a few time with the fair, but do not count on it unless your hitboxes come out sooner than his.

His tilts are very useful for him, but the only one really worth noting is his utilt. It covers his right and left side and has good range/priority. Therefore, DI away from him if you ever get hit by the utilt or if his grab gets a hold of you. You can be hit multiple times with his utilt.

If he grabs you, smashbuttons and get out ASAP. Lucarios will try to get as much damage as they can by hittting the A button when you are grabbed.

Utilizing the fair/tjolt/dsmash

When using your fair, there are two different scenarios. On the ground and in the air. Now lucario beat pika in the air. So, fighting in the air is going to take some conditioning and some mind games. In the air, shieldpoke with the fair. Now, this is where the conditioning comes in. Start out with doing a FJ fair. Do not use your second jump until you have conditioned your opponent into thinking that you always use your first jump to shield poke at him. Then, when you are absolutely sure that you have conditioned your opponent, FH at them then DI away and use your double jump>fair after your opponent has either used an attack or landed.

If lucario is on the ground, then the fair will still be a b*tch to fight. Lucario's fastes attack that damages and most used will be his jab. Therefore, if you use your fair to shieldpoke and DI away if its shielded then you are fine and away from attack. If it isn't shielded then your shieldpoke is effective and no need to explain. further. If you do not use your fair to shieldpoke and intend to land on the ground trying to use the lagless move to combo then you must not land in front of him. If you do then a jab is coming your way. My recommendation, is to land your fair behind lucario. That way you can use your utilt which is extremely more effective from behind anyways. From there, use your imagination.

With the tjolt, this can be your best damage dealer. Tolts right in the face of lucario are awesome. He is very floaty in the air. We can Jump>tjolt into his face. Spamming it on the ground will more than likely result in canceled tjols with a charged AS coming. If they refuse to stay in the air with your tjolt spamming, then follow up your tjolt with the from behind utilt/fair. DO NOTBE AFRAID TO SPAM TJOLT.

And the dsmash. Let me tell you what this is useful for. Aggravating the **** out of your opponent>getting them more predictable, and to stop them from rolling around you and making you look like a fool. It is effective for behaviour changes in your opponent. Aggrvting them by spammming a dsmash and stopping them from rolling around you. If they are frustrated be sure that there will be more spamming of AS's.


Playing a Defensive Lucario

The thing with playing a defensive lucario is that they are going to rely more on their AS and baiting you to come closer to them. Normal one will play defensive when either they are at a higher percentage and do not want to be aggressive and make a mistake, the opponent is playing offensively and a good defense is a good offense, or if they are being pressured.

Now with the AS, you can shield it. Do not let lucario bait you into coming towards him unless you absolutley have to. For example, you will LOSE since you have a higher percentage so you have to attack. In this case you are being aggressive. Lucarios know how to space really well with their attacks and their roll dodge is exceptional. The AS can eat through our projectile and potentially force us into coming closer. If you keep up the tjolts too, you can also apply a pressure through spamming projs.

The next thing with playing a defensive lucario is that his airiels>ours. This means when we try to approach from above, there is a good chance that lucario has a counter for it. Just try not to be predictable. Mix in a qac around him or dj >bair

The last thing, and by far the most important note about playing a defensive lucario, is when he is playing defensively due to his high health. His higher health has now given him the ability to kill us that much faster. Be careful and be sure to use your kill moves sparingly. Just like ESAM once said, playing to damge and not to kill. But. the higher his damage, the faster you will die. Its a two bladed sword.

The AS is much greater in power now too. Watch out for it. Most lucarios will release it in the air. If they are airiel, its game time for them. DO NOT let the fully charged AS hit you. It hurts a lot and can kill you as well.

Playing an Offensive Lucario

The thing that sticks out in my mind against lucarios who like to play aggressively is that they tend to roll around a lot. This is where we dsmash them. Even though they can DI out of it, the habit of rolling will go away and be less annoying. You can also try to dtilt them. Since it comes out relatively fast and can be turned around and it trips, it may be the better option than dsmash sometimes.

From the air you need to watch a few things. The fiar, bair, and nair. They are going to use their dair when they are near above you and to slow themselves down in momentum. With the airiels , you will want to focus on fair/bair. The bair is good since you can DI it really well. Also, try to attack from a above lucario. You can jump above him then try to use the fair or dair. His uair is descent, but very beatable.

When playing an aggressive lucario you will tend to see a decline in the number of AS's thrown. This means you should tjolt more. Every bit of free damage helps in this matchup. You may also see less of a ground game. If this is the case then try doing a running usmash or utilt or qac>nair. You could also try baiting them into a few thunders.

Learn how to space lucario. This will be hard, like when fighting a marth. Therefore I am allowing you to unleash the power of the fsmash upon lucario. Do not worry about degenerating it.

Killing and Edgeguarding

More than likely, lucario will not be able to edgeguard you with your QA. If you use your skullbash then you will be punished with his dair. Something he is also famous for is edgeguarding with his AS. He will time your fall and try to get that lucky hit and kill you. My advice, get below the edge as fast a you can but still ensure your return back to the stage.

For pika edgeguarding lucario, it is a little easier than others. His recovery has a small lag time before it moves. Learn to time this lag and learn to punish with a thunder. My advice is try a double thunder. You can also try to tjolt lucario if he is below the stage. This is when he is in the air and on the side of the stage. The great thing with pika is that the tjolt wraps around the stage. This is something that we have that also aggravates them, we can tjolt them to death on the edge.

As for lucario killing us, there are a few things. He can use his AS, his fsmash, his dair, his usmash and his dsmash. The fsmash can be deceptively crazy for killing. But is does have a small startup time. Watch out for it when falling on the ground. Also, he gets stronger the easier it is to kill. You can be killed at 85% when he gets above 150%.

Same thing as always with killing lucario. There isn't anything special with killing lucario. Utilt and usmash is harder to pull off due to the dair. Best best, the nair or thunder. Do not worry about conserving your fsmash as much since it will be useful for spacing.

Helpful Video's

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Overall Matchup

Lucario>Pika

Oh dear Lord. I hate fighting Lucarios.

Lucario is naturally a beast at spacing. His aura will shoo you away if you try any one of Pikachu's many approaches.
There is 1 decent way to approach. It's too fast for Lucario and really any other character as well. QAC, QAC, QAC. Oh yeah, and more QAC. QAC again. Then QAC some more.
The spacing and timing problem that is hard to overcome against Lucario, you can make up for in blistering speed.

Also it should be noted that your t-jolt cancels out his small-medium sized aura sphere, but not his larger ones.

In the air, it's again all about spacing and timing. He has more range than you in the air.
Don't go all ferocious DBZ-style aerial combat on him. You'll fail every time against an experienced Lucario.
Instead, try to drop down fast and mindgame him into thunder or d-smash.

If the Lucario is very aggressive, and most Lucarios are not, then d-tilt, t-jolt, and grabs will do wonders for you.
Fortunately, on the ground you can FF fair combo him easily if you can just initiate it by hitting him with the FF fair. But his spacing is naturally godly and it will require some advanced mindgames and great timing.

Lucario > Pikachu

From the lucario boards

Jeepy Sol said:

~Rotation 9~ Pikachu (PG. 45-50)
Out of the box, Pika's got some new tricks up his sleeve. One such sleeve is his newly tweaked Quick Attack (Up-b). Pika can change direction of where his going, and this does damage if made contact. So on the ground, he can run lines around you, leaving you helpless.

What also makes pika good is he can punish those who like to hang onto ledges. Pika's thundershock (B) dances along surfaces. So a Mr.Cliffhanger will get a face full of electricity and fall. By then, Pika can follow up with his ever so famous ThunderBolt (Down-B). A thunderbolt will hurtle downward perfectly parallel to where pika was when he used the move. Those hit, go flying.

Aura spam will be faltered by the thundershocks, and Pika can fire his faster. A medium+ AS (depending on %) however will eat through many shocks and possibly hitting pika. Dont rely on DT to save you to often, one mistake and your going to be hit by a little yellow rodent.

Then there's the Whorenado. Pika's Down smash, and its devastating. It has a AOE effect on Pikachu, anyone near him will get "grabbed" by electric sparks and sucked into the center of Pika, taking high amounts of damage in the process. Pika's love this move. Everyone else, not so much.

In the ways of %/%. I will say that this match is in Pika's favor, only by sheer speed and the canceling of some of our key moves.
-tedward2000

likely Pikachu Behavior:

• Some of the more gutsy Pikachu players WILL edge guard you. If you happen to be below the stage and you need to recover, watch out for incoming aerials and Wave-bounced thunders. When recovering from above, you have a lot less to worry about, because you can pretty much just f-air/air dodge your way back to the stage so long as you don't waste your second jump.
  Be careful of QAC, as it can really let Pikachu get up close to you. Worse yet, it can get Pikachu away from you and start firing thunder jolts. However if a Pikachu player decides to try firing one too many jolts, time a charged Aura Sphere to charge through the bolts and blast that Pika. However that's easier said than done, as Pikachu using thunder jolts on the ground isn't that common in the first place. Short hopped and full hopped jolts will be tons more common...
  -Pentaoku
• Pikachu does not, by any means, have to approach you. He can just sit there and shoot his stupid little thunderjolt with short hops or(most likely) full jumps. It has good priority, so your Aura Spheres won't beat it as BAS ever. A FCAS will beat it out at any percentage higher than 70%. As a side note you can spam your BAS way faster than he can spam his thunderjolt, and since thunderjolt NEVER eats BAS or fully charged at any percentage, if you get into a projectile battle you're gonna win. Pikachu can approach with the fair a whole lot; it's easily spammed. It has a certain property of floatiness that allows Pikachu to do a slight slide when he hits the ground if you tap a direction(you can see this VERY evidently with Marth), so watch out for that, because it's good for spacing and keeping away from counter attacks and also for doing the dsmash. Pickachu's LOOOOVE their dsmash, and MOST Pikachu players will not save it as a kill move and simply abuse it all the time, similar to Peach's dsmash in Melee, ja? If you do get hit with it, then you need to space better, especially at higher percentages when all you need to do to keep him away from you on the ground is shoot AS at him because it WILL eat through the thunderjolt. If Pickachu jumps over it, then you should be at an advantage, right? Anyways, if the dsmash hits you, then tap DI rapidly to one side and get out please. Do not just sit there and do nothing, because the final hit has more knockback than the rest and you'll probably die if you're not at least TRYING to DI, and if you don't die they'll just use a thunder, and since you'll probably be so high up Lucario won't be able to move yet, you're still dead.
  -Erich

Pikachu's Fundamental Moves:

• Thunder-Jolt: Pikachu's projectile. They combine this with the SH for spacing. Can stop our baby-AS. A 3/4(?) or fully charged AS will go through these.
  
• Dsmash: Most annoying move ever. Used to rack up damage. Do not roll spam around a pikachu! You can DI out of this.
  
• Thunder: Pika's "Raining projectile". Used for edgeguarding games. Can stop our arial game if used right.
  
• Quick Attack: Pika's recovery move. Used with QAC and QAL for mindgames. The QAC can be deadly if you dont see it. Dairing can help with this.
  -Trela

Match-Up: 55:45 Neutral/slight advantage for lucario
60/40 in lucario's favour IMO

How to Win:

• Pikachu's down smash is definitely something to look out for. So its something you should definitely try as a finisher seeing as how Pikachu is going to use down smash whenever he gets the chance and you dont have an aura sphere charged up.
  Pikachu has some weird priority on his aerials. Most notably b-air and f-air. They are multi hit attacks and suck you in really well, all it takes is getting nicked and you are taking some damage. Im also not sure, but I think there is some degree of disjointedness in his aerials, however Lucario still wins out there, but if your timing isnt extremely good, your going to trade blows with him.
  Lucario's d-air isnt as useful here, since Pikachu can use Thunder to deter this.
  Also important to understand is that Pikachu pretty much REQUIRES you to be very close to him in order to kill you, with the exception of thunder (the lightning bolt part), the hitboxes for all his kill moves are small. Also, you should NEVER get hit by his thunder on the ground, it just shouldnt happen, but on the off chance that it does its probably going to kill you if you are at any decent percentage since it has insane knockback.
  The quick attack cancel is something that you do need to look out for, but lucky for Lucario he has a projectile and keeping a charged one should stop your opponent from using QAC as an approach option.
  Pikachu is a rather small character. And something about the way he moves just makes him a bit difficult to hit. He is also rather challenging to gimp so I would be a little wary about how you try to fight when you are off stage. I would say you are better off following up with b-air and d-air (at higher percentages) when off stage to try to kill him rather than trying to gimp him.
  And as much as I seem to be saying Lucario wins out on everything. Pikachu really is a solid character and the fact that is is next to impossible to gimp means you have to send him flying to his death. That poses a little problem to Lucario since gimping is clearly the best way to get kills. And its not that Lucario cant kill, but due to aura I would say his killing ability is slightly below average most of the time during the match. Pikachu isnt exactly extremely light if I recall correctly, hes close to middle weight, so hes not too easy to kill, but not exactly hard.
  -manhunter098
• When played by a noob, you very quickly learn how to avoid thunderbolts and thunderjolts. When played by the average person you learn to keep your cool and take advantage of screwups. When played by a pro you learn the fine art of swearing... and how to butcher it.
  Thunderjolts can be dodged, jumped over, Pshielded ect... Pikachu IS able to rack up damage fast with his non spam-ed attacks and has plenty of ways to kill. Despite Pikachu being good at being a prick and can seemingly run circles around Lucario with QAC and such, he is a soccer ball. One good boot and Pika is flying off the stage. Tilts and smashes will outrange Pika for the most part and when Pika is at 50%+ ish, most of Lucario's kill moves take effect (at mid %'s for both players, utilt will kill Pika in a second if he's standing anywhere around you).
  -Nodrak
• Pika's approach is ****ing amazing. Don't stand there like an idiot, you'll get murdered. If you're not pummelling the little rodent, stay in the air and keep him guessing. Just standing around isn't going to do you anything.
  Keep full auraspheres at all times. Throw one at him when he attempts to thundershock you. Thundershock has a pretty crappy afterlag on it, so if you're a decent space away from him, it'll tear through the thundershock and destroy him.
  Pikachu's a gay character. There's no point denying it. If you're winning with Pikachu, you're using retreating thundershocks 3/4 of the time. Understandable, Pikachu can't take hits. With that said, it's necessary to approach him more often than not. Our fair combos don't work very well on him, as he's small. SHAD behind him doesn't work as you'll more often than not be sucked up by his dsmash. Pikachu has a very noticeable amount of afterlag on his thundershocks though. SH dair is effective as approach. If he's approaching midair with a thundershock, roll behind the shock (and him) and intercept him.
  Just stay in the air all game. The only threatening aerial that Pikachu has is his fair, and comparing it to ours, it's silly.
  -Timbers
• Keep him in your fsmash range at all times. That way he's too far away to hit you and too close to spam without being punished. If he QACs away, then either follow him or try to fire a full AS in his face. Get him in the air where, for the most part, you'll overwhelm him with your superior aerial play. Pika is one of the best spammers in the game, so you'll always want to space well and keep up the pressure.
  -Fizzle
• Please use either fully charged AS' after 70% to eat through the thunderjolt spam, or just shoot BAS at any percentage to cancel them out and win the projectile battle. They will most likely be doing full jumped thunderjolts, so find a way around that. It's not an impregnable defense, it never is. Keep him Pika in the air, preferably above you so that you're not vulnerable to thunder. You need to space well too. The fsmash is generally not recommended, as it is very slow and Pikachu is not slow, so try to use your tilts more. FPCG isn't really all that useful either, but it can still combo if you time everything right. Just try to kill Pikachu quickly, because if you don't then you'll lose the edge you gain from them being unable to kill you until at least 120% or so, unless you're an idiot and DI upwards on a dsmash to a thunder. Once at higher percentages, control the match and hold on to that stock as long as you can.
  -Erich
• You can play extremely gay in the higher percents with aurasphere. Abusing it shuts down a lot of his approach. Stay in the air. The only killmove Pika has in the air is his nair, and it's severely lacking in range. I'd stay in the air for the most of this game. Pika gets around your ground game way too well.
  -Timbers

Recommended Stages:

• Battlefield: His projectiles are quite useless here. It is also impossible to Thunder you while you are on stage. This stage also enhances you brick-walling.
• Luigi's Mansion: This stage, again, is very good for Lucario. The ceiling's on the left and right sides of the stage will protect you from being killed with the d/up smash. It also negates Pikachu's down-b, so abuse that too. You'll collect damage pretty easily, so once you're at a good enough percent space yourself right and do a FP or something. If you do it right they'll go flying right out the upper side or right off the top. You have several kill moves, so pick one and use it. Whatever.
  -Erich
• Yoshis Island/Frigate Orpheon: Pikachus Thunder Jolt with travel down the sides of the stages, which means your Wall Cling will get easily gimped.

--It is not necessary to post here, but if you think something is missing or innacurate, feel free to post here or in the stickied Match-Up Thread.

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Edit: info from lucario boards

=o

I was thinking the match-up was 55/45 in Lucario's favor. Now I'm not sure.

We need some more input. Come on Pikas!

My only input is that it is 55-45 lucario. other then that all i could say was covered in their analysis.

The middle part of QA Goes thru BAS

Then there's the Whorenado. Pika's Down smash, and its devastating. It has a AOE effect on Pikachu, anyone near him will get "grabbed" by electric sparks and sucked into the center of Pika, taking high amounts of damage in the process. Pika's love this move. Everyone else, not so much.

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I stopped reading there.
1. It's the LIGHTNING **** SPIN. The Whorenado is Meta Knight's thing.
2. U-Tilt has more range than D-Smash.
3. Huge Damage? It's Pikachu's weakest Smash.

This guy just sounds annoyed by Pika-spammers on wi-fi.

Also, my input:
Pikachu's D-Tilt can negate some projectiles. Weak Aura Spheres being one of them. :D

Basically Lucario is going to beat Pika straight up in the air.

not necesarily. pika is quicker then lucario in the air, and can combo him somewhat decently, as long as pika watches out for the combo breaking dair.

True.

Gotchya.

Muhznit said:

I stopped reading there.
1. It's the LIGHTNING **** SPIN. The Whorenado is Meta Knight's thing.
2. U-Tilt has more range than D-Smash.
3. Huge Damage? It's Pikachu's weakest Smash.

This guy just sounds annoyed by Pika-spammers on wi-fi.

Also, my input:
Pikachu's D-Tilt can negate some projectiles. Weak Aura Spheres being one of them. :D

Click to expand...

1. The Lucario Matchup Thread discussion on Pikachu occured long before the invention of the term "Lightning **** Spin."
2. The Lucario Matchup Thread exports are compiled summaries of the DISCUSSED information, with most often very little or no input from the creator of the thread (unless there was very little discussion on a character). They are usually all direct quotes taken from the thread. In other words, any misinformation is YOUR FAULT for not correcting him during the time of the discussion, and not commenting on the export created afterwards. But maybe not you, since you were such a big help when we posted our topic requesting your own input for the matchup.

In other words, don't complain about something being inaccurate, when we outright INVITED your input, and you declined.

Also, supermario27mx, please refrain from editing quotes with your own opinion of the matchup. It confuses people, since the matchup export does not in any way state that anyone believes that the matchup is 60:40 in Lucario's favor.

lol its just the dsmash. never heard of it called anything else but annoying.

Kitamerby said:

1. The Lucario Matchup Thread discussion on Pikachu occured long before the invention of the term "Lightning **** Spin."

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He's just being funny.

It is finally finished!!!!!!

This is my third edition. OK PEOPLE!!!!

now i know it took a long time, but this one was really challenging to summarize. i still left some stuff out. but i just cant figure it out.