Official G&W Stage Discussion #1: Battlefield

Thanks to the encouragement of Neb and S.O.L.I.D., I have decided to try to revive the G&W boards with a stage discussion! Here we will discuss G&W's general advantages and weaknesses on a particular stage (battlefield in this case). However, we will not discuss specific matchups against characters on the stage, unless G&W has a killer advantage or a horrible disadvantage against a certain character on the stage we are discussing (i.e. If G&W absolutely destroys Olimar on Rainbow Cruise, please mention that). I wil rate G&W's performance on each stage on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the worst stage for G&W and 10 being the best stage for G&W. I will start off doing all the neutral stages, and then the counterpick stages. If we have a lively discussion with plenty of comments and contributions, I will make a summary of how G&W fares on each stage. Post your thoughts on the stage and give a rating from 1-10.

This week is Battlefield.


Discuss.

Hmmm....this stage makes Dairs a little more complicated in general (you have a wall seperating you from opponents) but it also makes Nair more effective, so I'd say 7, cause I still have some trouble when Dairs are so much more punishable and less effective.

Nairs are deadly through the platforms. Camping under them makes it hard to approach GaW, especially with a well spaced turtle, but then again no one needs to approach GaW. The "low ceiling" really means nothing, maybe a 1% kill difference but the "low ceiling" has been proven false.

I will bring up the matchup with snake, never take him here, and he will often take you here. Don't think anyone doesn't know this still, but just saying.

G&W's nair truely devastating on this stage. It can rack up over 15% damage if you hit them through the platforms, and if they block it, you are completely safe from a counter attack. I believe uair can hit characters through the drop through platforms, which can surprise them. G&W's dair is kind of tricky since the platforms get in the way. Dair can be punished if you want on the platform above someone with vertical range on their moves (marth's utilt/usmash, snake's utilt, DK's usmash, etc) that can hit you through the platforms. I prefer to stay below the platforms and attack people through it with nair.

I think G&W has some ledge/platform momentum boost/reversal technique that could possible be implimented on this stage, since it has a whole bunch of platforms. You can land a surprise bucket/9 if you use that AT.

The stage itself is rather small and limits the usage of projectiles, which benefits G&W since he has a crappy projectile.

Rating: 8.5/10, against snake 0/10

I'll add more later

...

this is one of g&w best stages if you ask me. Nair juggle alone is incredible.

if you're playing a character of decent size, this stage is amazing for dairs.

back air spam just ***** opponents on ledges

and the edge game is great.

9/10. Except marth. Marth = 5/10

Oh yeah, I think G&W's dair can hit taller characters (ganon, falcon, snake, etc) through the platform. One thing I forgot to add. Dthrow techchase ***** on the platform, since all your dsmash will hit them if they:
1. lie on the floor and don't do anything
2. techroll to either side
3. normal getup
4. regular roll to either side
The length of the platform makes techchasing so much easier. There only other option is getup attack. If you predict that, SH and dair.

After that, I'll change my rating from7.5/10 to 8.5/10. I totally forget about G&W's grab game...

K 2 said:

Oh yeah, I think G&W's dair can hit taller characters (ganon, falcon, snake, etc) through the platform. One thing I forgot to add. Dthrow techchase ***** on the platform, since all your dsmash will hit them if they:
1. lie on the floor and don't do anything
2. techroll to either side
3. normal getup
4. regular roll to either side
The length of the platform makes techchasing so much easier. There only other option is getup attack. If you predict that, SH and dair.

After that, I'll change my rating from7.5/10 to 8.5/10. I totally forget about G&W's grab game...

Click to expand...

The problem is not a lot of characters like to stay up there, as it is normally better to be below the platform.

You are right though, and it works well in combination with u-air stalling to force them to land.

DO NOT PLAY MARTH HERE! He ***** here, seriously, he's amazing here. I say 8/10, and nice job K 2, I see you took some stuff from my Marth one, nice job.

In general the tall characters can just duck to avoid the dair. I haven't tested it exhaustively, but I know DK can. In fact, he can duck the dair from below the platform and then punish with usmash. Most opponents aren't smart enough to pull a trick like that, but don't be surprised when you see it. The dair through the platform is a fun gimmick until they catch on though.

I can't think I have much to say about this stage quality wise. I'd never, ever counterpick it (Mr. Game & Watch has so much better!), but I wouldn't exactly try to avoid it. In neutral strike out with those obnoxiously conservative stage lists (the 4-5 neutral ones), it's not a bad stage to go for, but I'd shoot for Smashville since the moving platform is mostly just helpful there while the platforms here can get kinda obnoxious when you are trying to mix up the spacing on turtle approaches (I'd probably take Lylat first too for that matter unless the enemy is Snake). With the more liberal neutral strike-outs, Halberd and Delfino add to the better stages to go for and make Battlefield a stage to cast aside. I find the advice to bring people here silly... would you ever actually pick this stage in a tournament when Mr. Game & Watch has various stupid abuse on so many other stages?

I'd rate the stage 4/10. It's not really bad for him in any way at all, but for Mr. Game & Watch, not having something that specifically helps him puts a stage below average. I don't really see this as the first stage I'd get rid of or pick against any of the cast either so it's not really a useful stage to worry about.

Amazing Ampharos said:

In general the tall characters can just duck to avoid the dair. I haven't tested it exhaustively, but I know DK can. In fact, he can duck the dair from below the platform and then punish with usmash. Most opponents aren't smart enough to pull a trick like that, but don't be surprised when you see it. The dair through the platform is a fun gimmick until they catch on though.

Click to expand...

ducking isn't something that most people do. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen ducking in an actual tournament. Ducking is way too scrub, imo. Its much better to move.

But actually, d-air through a platform is much safer then dairing directly into them, because if they shield you will be punished.

Make sure you ban this stage if your gonna fight a snake ~_~

Nairs through platforms..blablabla

I personally dont like this stage for him. It doesn't give him to much aerial freedom. I think you can auto cancel his aerials onto the platforms though, but IDK.

Ducking is scrub? I learned that from darkrain when I tried to do the exact abuse described. Ducking in general is one of the most underrated movement options, and just because most people don't do it (and they don't) doesn't mean it's not good (it is). Just moving lets Mr. Game & Watch do it safely; ducking lets you punish him!

Just for fun, here's the list of characters Mr. Game & Watch can key through the platform. A * will indicate those who can't duck under it.

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser*
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf*
Samus*
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
R.O.B.
King Dedede*
Fox
Falco
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Lucario
Marth
Ike
Snake
Sonic

Can't key through platform list (in general):

Diddy Kong
Wario (except during one of his idle animations in which he extends his hitbox up)
Toon Link
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Meta Knight
Olimar
Wolf (you can snag him during his frequent idle animations)
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
Mr. Game & Watch

Dsmash through platform list. Yeah, this exists against the huge guys. Everyone can duck under it, and dtilt works too if you like doing less damage.

Bowser
Donkey Kong
Ganondorf
Snake (only when his head is high)

Note: Samus and Charizard can be hit during one of their idle animations but not in general. This is different from the situation with Snake because it's not their usual bobbing up and down but one of the poses they like to go into once in a while.

S.O.L.I.D. said:

DO NOT PLAY MARTH HERE! He ***** here, seriously, he's amazing here. I say 8/10, and nice job K 2, I see you took some stuff from my Marth one, nice job.

Click to expand...

Thanks S.O.L.I.D.! This has turned out to be a great success! I'm going to put up the FD discussion soon. Your marth stage discussion is a really good guide line for me to follow.

My favorite neutral stage for G&W. Nair and Dair through platforms are great, and the ledges are extremely forgiving for G&W's recovery.

The thing I like about BF though is the fact it's smaller in size compared to FD; this can help against campy characters who suck at mid-range fighting... G&W excels here.

K 2 said:

Thanks S.O.L.I.D.! This has turned out to be a great success! I'm going to put up the FD discussion soon. Your marth stage discussion is a really good guide line for me to follow.

Click to expand...

No problem, I'm glad you can use it effectively to help you out.

If Smashville wasn't there, BF would be my favorite neutral.

Also check this out- Click.
See how they keep a summary of all the stages in one thread so you won't have to go hunting for individual threads? You can have like multiple discussion topics for a particular stage going on at once, but the summary can be in one main thread. But yeah, I liked how the Sonic boards did theirs so I figured I'd share.

Even Better- Click.

wow...those were amazing. I'll try to make the G&W stage discussion index (soon to be made) just as fancy, but you guys will have to contribute to make this work! Thanks for showing me those examples.

K 2 said:

Oh yeah, I think G&W's dair can hit taller characters (ganon, falcon, snake, etc) through the platform. One thing I forgot to add. Dthrow techchase ***** on the platform, since all your dsmash will hit them if they:
1. lie on the floor and don't do anything
2. techroll to either side
3. normal getup
4. regular roll to either side
The length of the platform makes techchasing so much easier. There only other option is getup attack. If you predict that, SH and dair.

After that, I'll change my rating from7.5/10 to 8.5/10. I totally forget about G&W's grab game...

Click to expand...

K 2 is right, the platforms help him a lot. I would probably give game and watch a 7/10, because he can destroy opponents on platforms and edge guard with ease. But with the down throw on the platforms, that gives them no area to escape and you can get the down smash off. With that I'd probably give him an 8.5/10 or a 9/10. I would say this is one of his better stages ^.^