PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Marth's Infinite on Ness is no more! YES
- Thread starter PKNintendo
- Start date
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
So basically this is just double stick DI?
Marth can still dash grab anyway.
It just means that he will get less percent off.
And he can still get finishing moves off if Ness is in kill percents.
Marth can still dash grab anyway.
It just means that he will get less percent off.
And he can still get finishing moves off if Ness is in kill percents.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
This sucks if this is true. And who likes my new signature??
Edit: Wait, if he can still dash grab you, then nothing has changed. It just takes a bit longer but the infinite isn't infinite but is pretty **** good anyway.
Edit: Wait, if he can still dash grab you, then nothing has changed. It just takes a bit longer but the infinite isn't infinite but is pretty **** good anyway.
Wayland
Smash Journeyman
Lmao, go Ness! Does it work for Lucas too?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Wasn't this discovered months ago? I'm pretty sure the Lucas players found this almost immediately after the whole "zomg almost every character can grab infinite you."
I mean, it's nice that it's being brought up again, but seriously, I'm disapointed that people didn't know about this already.
I mean, it's nice that it's being brought up again, but seriously, I'm disapointed that people didn't know about this already.
Yes all that is true. I mentioned that in the original thread, this is a weirder than just double stick DI because you do it diagonally to slide further for some reason.
If you do a double stick DI away without going diagonal Marth can still grab you.
It wasn't discovered months ago because I'm pretty sure they just went Double stick away. The double stick Diagonal gives much more sliding distance.
If it was discovered exactly how I stated it, then the Lucas players should have had it some where or told it to the Ness boards.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
FYI, dash grab really isn't as effective....
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Well, I guess Marth vs Ness isn't 99/1, but more like 75/25 - 80/20 Marth.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
It's okay. But why do you even WANT Ness to get infinited?
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
Ness STILL has nothing on Marth for the most part. The infinite was just insult to injury.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Not everybody visits the Lucas boards. And why are you disappointed? Does it bother you that much?
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah but its still awesome.
Brawl sucks enough as it is so I want to have one major advantage (my normal difficulties with Brawl are Jigglypuff vs. Game and Watch, which is so unfair its like any infinite grab).
The point is Marth can't grab you twice without dash grabbing. The whole standing long chain grab is done.
Marth can still do this attacks out of a grab release. He must dash to re grab though. This makes is significantly shorter.
Ness has a slight aerial range advantage over Marth, and projectile advantage. Grounded there is not much Ness can do, except use his shield, dodges, grab, yo yo, and projectiles.
This hardly changes anything.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
yeah, but it just takes a set of grabs to rack up insane damage and so its still awesome.
Glad to hear that from you
Dash grab chaingrabs do hardly any damage, not "insane damage".
My previous analysis of this match up (in which I said 70-30) was based on having to play cautiously to avoid being grabbed among other things making it worse for Ness. In light of this discovery the match up isn't any worse than 60 - 40 Marth wins.
My previous analysis of this match up (in which I said 70-30) was based on having to play cautiously to avoid being grabbed among other things making it worse for Ness. In light of this discovery the match up isn't any worse than 60 - 40 Marth wins.
Umm...? I'm pretty sure if a character goes from being grabbed over and over, making it a long chain grab, to only being grabbed half as long, if grabbed at all, (I need to retest the dashing grab if it works) doesn't change anything?
Think about it...
Match up is now 60-40 if you ask me.
Okay I tested this and the dashing grab seems not to work if Ness spot dodges right after that.
Nor does walking slightly and grabbing.
LOL
I'm not changing it from 75:25. Ness is still a bad character and Marth still has a guaranteed kill set up.
Ness just can't compete with Marth.
I'm not changing it from 75:25. Ness is still a bad character and Marth still has a guaranteed kill set up.
Ness just can't compete with Marth.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
LOL. The matchup is nowhere even close. Its one of Marth's easiest matchups. He can still be grabbed for a while and Marth can kill Ness so easily.
Agreed.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
In 64. Jigglypuff mains can say all they want about Jigglypuff not sucking (I still believe she should be lower mid tier, and that she is fairly good against Metaknight), but when it comes down to it, unless if wavedashing is somehow invented for Jigglypuff and she gets a way to have her aerial priority doubled, she will never be tournament material. Ness is not tournament viable except as a counterpick.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Read the ness match-up chart if you seriously think it's 60:40. We evaluated the match-up with and without the grab release.
This changes nothing as steel said.
This changes nothing as steel said.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Uhh, ness is high low tier right now and she is underrated for a reason. She has a higher learning curve without any rewards, so its not an easy character just to pick up but there are little rewards from learning her gameplay (except she is moderately good against Metaknight at top levels). She should be higher but she won't be.
These guys know more than you. I came in here with around the same number of posts as you saying Jiggs Marth was a 50-50 matchup. I've become smarter.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Or Marth, R.O.B., Falco, or G&W. They still don't have great shots but at least they do have a chance to win a tourney.
No they're trash.
TRASH.
Just not as trashy as ness, that's all.
TRASH.
Just not as trashy as ness, that's all.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
If Metaknight goes they won't be at all.
Lol, she's not that low. She just has the worst circumstances for use, so she sucks but not that much.
Of course not, but he's still here. Thus, garbage.
If you want to discuss Metaknight thread:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057
It was 75:25, 75-10=65, 100-65=35 so it should be 65:35. Characters are not trash. Many players enter with their characters and place high. It is not a Necessity for you to use snake or MK.
It's illogical to keep a match up that high in disadvantage. Especially since one of the parts that people feared of the match up is completely gone.
Just because using your character you haven't place well or others who play your character haven't, and others have with other characters, doesn't mean the character is trash.
It was 75:25, 75-10=65, 100-65=35 so it should be 65:35. Characters are not trash. Many players enter with their characters and place high. It is not a Necessity for you to use snake or MK.
It's illogical to keep a match up that high in disadvantage. Especially since one of the parts that people feared of the match up is completely gone.
Just because using your character you haven't place well or others who play your character haven't, and others have with other characters, doesn't mean the character is trash.
I lol'd
Anyway, when I say 10 point differential you take away 5 points from each side.
75 - 5 = 70
25 + 5 = 30
70:30.
Why do you keep saying it's illogical when you fail to bring up any points? You're just debating a ratio without giving me any proof besides the fact that "Marth can't get in chip damage anymore with his grab release." That wasn't too big of a deal in the first place, the thing you should be afraid of is the dsmash following the release.
Anyway, when I say 10 point differential you take away 5 points from each side.
75 - 5 = 70
25 + 5 = 30
70:30.
Why do you keep saying it's illogical when you fail to bring up any points? You're just debating a ratio without giving me any proof besides the fact that "Marth can't get in chip damage anymore with his grab release." That wasn't too big of a deal in the first place, the thing you should be afraid of is the dsmash following the release.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Seriously, these people know more than you. Ness doesn't have the ability to beat Marth. How much clearer does that have to be made. The chain-grab still does insane damage and nothing has changed except it takes 1 more grab to do the exact same thing. Even without any chain-grabs, Ness can't do jack on Marth.
Look back and read the post all the post here Marth cannot dash grab Ness. Marth can still grab release to attacks though.
Ness has a slight aerial range advantage over Marth, and projectile advantage.
Grounded Ness can use his shield, dodges, grab, yo yo, and projectiles. Or just counter ground attack with aerials, just because your opponent is grounded doesn't mean you have to say grounded.
Another point is that one of the parts that Ness players fear in this match up is completely gone.
Right now this is like cutting 5,000 feet off a 30,000 feet tree and trying to climb it, but making it to the same exact height proportion wise.
Ness has a slight aerial range advantage over Marth, and projectile advantage.
Grounded Ness can use his shield, dodges, grab, yo yo, and projectiles. Or just counter ground attack with aerials, just because your opponent is grounded doesn't mean you have to say grounded.
Another point is that one of the parts that Ness players fear in this match up is completely gone.
Right now this is like cutting 5,000 feet off a 30,000 feet tree and trying to climb it, but making it to the same exact height proportion wise.