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Pit Matchup Discussion - Snake. (MT linked)

Coffee™

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Snake Time!!!

Caliburchamp brought up a small discussion about Snake recently on the Pit boards about Pit's advantages in the matchup, we might as well go the whole nine yards.

Solid Snake



Pros and Cons straight from the Snake Boards.

Code:
[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Pros[/COLOR][/B]

Pros:
- A bunch of really powerful moves
- Adept at controlling the stage
- Good recovery, which doesn’t give general stun after using.
- Great edge guards
- Pretty nice aerials.
- Throws which actually have some uses.
Code:
[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Cons[/COLOR][/B]

Cons:
- Lacks combos (except his natural combos)
- Only has a box for taunting.
- Can be blown up by some of his own explosives
- Can be gimped fairly easily while recovering.
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=4001

Here is a link if you need more information on selective moves.
Discuss!!!
 

Afropony

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UndrDog View Post
People keep telling me this and I keep getting confused. The only think I can see about Snake is his tilts. Powershield them and he's going to die. All I can suggest doing is learn to read his attacks and Powershield them. Then quickly follow up with a strong strike of your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Lucario View Post
Pits arrows can take out his down smash. also most snakes fight on edge because they only attack in 1 direction powershield and unpredictable rolls will take snake out also use angel rings on his projectiles since you get closer they will return faster and yea back air his up b

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryn View Post
Snake can only hit you with his f-tilt if you get close. The same is with his grabbing. I use grabs with Pit as well and throw in a few grab jabs here and there. Try out this technique: Grab Snake, throw him to the left or to the right, and use the Angel Ring in that direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanarius View Post
For the aerials you have to take advantage that pits has disjointed aerials while snake doesn't. You can beat his aerial game with decent spacing although you have to be careful in the air because he can pull a nade out instantly and just blow you both up.

For throwing grenades back theres a glitch where he can make you drop the grenade (if only one nade is out) so watch out for that but its always refreshing to see snake own weapons hurting him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UndrDog View Post
Pit does counter Snake. But don't say it too loudly. 99.999% of Smashboards will go to the grave claiming that both "Pit sucks" and "Snake can't be beaten by anyone."

^All of this was in the dead matchup thread, just thought I might put it here.^
 

Admiral Pit

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As said before, Snake hates Pit's arrows, since it messes Snake's 'nades and stops Mortar Slide in its tracks. Pit does have his little F-throw chaingrab on Snake, too.
I won't be able to say much for this.
But be sure to perform the grab release on Snake while trying to recover with Up-B. This will either kill the snake, or force the snake to blow himself up with his C-4 Charge, giving him more damage.
 

teh_pwns_the

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fun little trick, AR his mortars and they will blow him up when they land, pretty much kills his Usmash, plus its fun to laugh at when the snake gets hit by his own mortar and whines about how gimmicky pit is, oh otherwise interrupt his explosive usage with arrows and reflectors, and just dont get hit by tilts (PS or SD or roll or just dont stay in range of them haha). once hes off the stage you might as well say good games nub cause his upb is very very punishable

this match is in pits favor definitely
 

napZzz

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arrows....really are a bad things for snake. I know a really good pit online I play alot this stupid noob from wiipals named haven....if any of you know him somehow. I know admiral bowser will :) ~_~

Pits actually got a good close combat game vs. snake believe it or not. You can spot dodge tilts and punish with grabs or his aaa and tilts.

Save your fsmash for kills or else your gonna have a tough time finishing off snake.

HIs lil chain grab works well because of snakes size and weight.

I'd say its 5/5, because they each have things they can do to really mess the other one up and big advantages over each other.

Its a battle of good spacing and whoever can be smarter...
 

Azgner

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I agree with NaPPy, 50/50
Snake takes forever to kill and hits hard. Even if you can dish some good damage, he will be there for a looong time.
If you go close quartes on him, be extra careful with the grenades, if you attack them, they will blow up on your face.
 

Coffee™

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To be honest I disagree with 50/50. If Pikachu and Falco can more or less be hard counters to Snake then Pit is more than likely the same if you take into consideration the attributes that actually make Falco and Pikachu hard counters. I'll just quote some posts from a thread made here a little while ago.

I'll mention some things about the matchup, which is definitely in Pit's favour in my opinion.

Pit's projectile game completely shuts down Snake's projectile game.

Pit can CG Snake to 40% with his Forward Throw.

Snake has trouble dealing with Pit's ledgegame. (Arrows, Uair and Nair from the ledge.) The wind effect from Pit's Up B enables you to push away Grenades from the ledge and there's always the Mirror Shield to reflect them.

Pit can gimp snake relatively easily if he can get him off the stage, but you have to be selective with which moves you use as moves like Nair and Uair will not hit him out of his cypher.
I'm a pit main that thinks the matchup is in snakes advantage. Pit has a lot of advantages against a bad snake but if your playing one familar with the matchup those advantages really dry up.

A nade hitting you does about as much damage as an arrow hitting snake and a grenade exploding does a lot of damage. Pit can beat snake in a range fight but its not a slaughter. My advice on that is don't be afraid to fight him range but don't count on it once a snake slows down and starts throwing timed grenades its quite difficult to deal with. Snake can approach through arrows without much difficulty so your going to have to do more then just shoot arrows.

If the snake knows what he's doing he can get out of the chaingrab after the second throw. Its not exactly easy and as I'm the pit in the matchup I'm not sure on the technicals but I think if snake di's down and away he can spot dodge before pit can grab again. Still it puts him in a position where you can follow up the throw easily enough.

Pits ledge game is quite effective against snake. You have to be somewhat careful a grenade can stage spike you easily if your careless. Also a lot of tournaments are beginning to be more strict against ledgecamping so be careful of that.

Gimping a good snake is really hard. A lot of snakes will wait too long to use the cypher in which case its pretty easy to call where they are going to be making a really easy edge game. If you happen to be in a good position to edgegaurd him generally be ready to attack somewhat above him as his cypher will bring him up. Better snakes will jump often even away from you then cypher right away. This will cause them to go vertical faster then pit can cover. A couple things you can do about this you can shoot a slightly charged arrow that will knock him out of the cypher, I believe 7 damage is all you need to hit out of his heavy armor. Also because they are trying to just go higher then you can guard sometimes snakes will actually go off the top of the map doing this. Cyphering off the top of the map won't kill them but if you hit them with an arrow outside the kill zone they will die.

Also on gimping snake has a fairly low horizontal movement speed. This means you can basically stay under him and juggle him to some extent. When landing against someone staying under him his best options are generally bair, airdodge or pull a grenade. bair comes out really fast and hits hard but can only attack behind so if you space appropiately its not too dangerous. Airdodge will leave them vulnerable upon landing for a couple frames but is a very common reaction. Grenade is probably the more annoying option using multiple hits will most likely blow you both up except for the dilema he is very heavy so it hurts you more relatively.

On the topic of grenades those are probably why snake is such a threat to pit. Snake is really heavy with more kill power then pit so trading damage favors him. Also the first hit of multi hit attacks set off a grenade. This is normally a pain because you need your kill smash refreshed to kill snake at a reasonable percent but if he pulls a grenade the first part of your fsmash will set it off dealing damage to both of you (possible for it just to hurt you if he shields but thats only if you didn't space your fsmash to avoid hitting a drop grenade) also this depletes your fsmash.

Controller port 4 helps deal with grenades but mostly only for grabbing. Just thought I should note that.

Generally for spacing I find if you space to avoid his ftilt works the best. Over 100% keep an eye out for his uptilt especially if he keeps it refreshed it hits very hard and has a lot of range.

A few of his moves are only really effective against bad di. You can generally di out of his dair, nair and jab combo.

Overall I do not like the matchup at all its playable and easy against a mediocre snake but against a strong snake I'd say 60:40 snake and call that optimistic.

I'd recommend deedee against him if your still trying to decide although that match controller port matters way too much for my liking.

edit: oops that wasn't meant to be so long.
I agree with pretty much everything you said aside from the matchup ratio and that mostly depends on ledgecamping. A ledgecamping Pit has the advantage over Snake but if you are forced to play without it then the matchup is probably neutral or tips slightly in Snakes favour.

Alsp, to be honest I'm not entirely sure how you can ban ledge camping as the rules behind bannng it would be very situational and almost always have some loophole that can be exploited anyway.
 

napZzz

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you overestimate snake's weight
he's right ~_~

pits fsmash will kill snake fairly early (well...120ish I'd say) if undiminished. Most pits that I've fought make the mistake of using it to rack damage instead of saving it for kills..
 

Undrdog

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There's no need to save it. Grab Attacks (kneeing your opponent while having them grabbed) replenishes your attacks. ^_^ Deal damage with the F-Smash when you see fit, and get a few grabs in after your opponent hits about 120% or so.

To play Pit efficiently you gotta keep constant pressure on your opponent. Pit's got the unique ability to always be a threat. In certain situations the only way to keep a steady stream of attacks is to use the F-Smash.

I'm surprised so few people know about regenerating your attacks. =P
 

Admiral Pit

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Ok I got a bit more.
In this matchup, spamming arrows a bit can be helpful. Many Snakes love grenades and shooting him will make him drop the grenades.
As a Pit main I already know that Pit lacks melee range compared to almost every character, which does hurt him a bit.
N-air is tempting against a Snake because if one holds a grenade, the Pit will get hit by the nade should Snake hold one.
Pit's F-throw chaingrab, I mentioned it before. Cant do it as much as you could on a DK or a Bowser, but Snake is still vulnerable to it with good timing.

Again, Grab release is one of the faster ways to kill a Snake.
I do know Pit has an advantage, but not a big one. Snake is heavy, Pit lacks some KO power, but still has ways of killing quickly, like degraded B-air sweetspots, or grab release.
 

ColinJF

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UndrDog said:
I'm surprised so few people know about regenerating your attacks. =P
But make sure you don't pummel (grab attack) at the maximum speed or the whole series of attacks will only replace one entry in the stale move queue. In order for each grab attack to replace a move in the stale move queue there has to be a time between each pummel where the opponent is not in hitstun, and if you pummel at the maximum rate with Pit, there will never be a time like that.
 

madival

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my two cents on this. My best friend mains snake and falco but he wont play snake if i play pit. gonna give pit at least a 60:40 over snake
 

napZzz

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my two cents on this. My best friend mains snake and falco but he wont play snake if i play pit. gonna give pit at least a 60:40 over snake
thats...terrible logic. lol.

And admiral bowser snake can blow himself up with a c4 to recover after a neutral release. It gives him his up b back again too.
 

Shady Penguin

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I think it's around a neutral match-up with Pit possibly having the advantage. (Anywhere from 50:50 to 60:40 Pit)

Arrows are a big problem for Snake, and give Pit the camping advantage. Snake hits harder and will live to higher percentages, but Pit has the advantage when it comes to racking up damage (attack strings and arrows).

Both characters can give each other a good load of trouble in the edge-guarding department, but I'd say this is more against Snake due to Pit's recovery having more versatility.

Summary: Pit wins in camping, gimping, and stringing, but Snake wins in normal KOing (tilts) and weight.
 

rinoH

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40:60 Snakes favor
though if your fighting a nooby snake you can just grab them out of the cypher
 

Coffee™

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Both characters can give each other a good load of trouble in the edge-guarding department.
How does Snake give Pit any trouble at all in the edgeguarding department... Snake can't go after Pit after Pit has been knocked offstage least Snake now become the victim and his moves like the Nikita Missle and the Motar are easily avoided.
 

Shady Penguin

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How does Snake give Pit any trouble at all in the edgeguarding department... Snake can't go after Pit after Pit has been knocked offstage least Snake now become the victim and his moves like the Nikita Missle and the Motar are easily avoided.
Grenade drops near the edge (I know wings can help), mines near the edge, Mortars (there are mindgames to be had), intercepting with a tilt when Pit tries to pull himself up, etc.

Snake can't really gimp Pit if that's what you're thinking, but he is great when it comes to damaging people when they try to pull themselves onto the stage.
 

SaltyKracka

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1. I will agree that Snake can't outcamp Pit in this matchup.
2. However, he doesn't have to. He will mortarslide right up to you and begin to ftilt the hell out of you. Even if you hit him with an arrow while he's moving, he'll keep coming. You can't keep him away forever.
3. Snakes can and will duck right underneath your arrows.
4. Pit will never, NEVER want to be in melee range of Snake during this matchup. He will completely **** you there.
5. You aren't going to be grab-release gimping any good Snakes.
6. Snake will C4/Nikita edgeguard the hell out of Pit. Pit doesn't exactly have the world's least gimpable recovery either.
7. Um.....Snake will stay out of the air if at all possible, so try to keep him there.
8. You keep on talking about a minor fthrow chain, but Snake's grab is better than Pit's, and it will setup for much more melee range ****.

So yeah, I don't play Snake, but I know that much. I'd say about 60:40 Snake at best. (For Pit, that is. Snake ***** noobs easy)
 

misterbushido01

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How does Snake give Pit any trouble at all in the edgeguarding department... Snake can't go after Pit after Pit has been knocked offstage least Snake now become the victim and his moves like the Nikita Missle and the Motar are easily avoided.
you rly underestimate the power of the motar
its rly hard to avoid if recovered from below and it adds pressure
 

Coffee™

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2. However, he doesn't have to. He will mortarslide right up to you and begin to ftilt the hell out of you. Even if you hit him with an arrow while he's moving, he'll keep coming. You can't keep him away forever.
Motorslides are interrupted by Arrows and he can be shield grabbed out of a Motorslide. Snakes Ftilt is ridiculous, but Snake can be shield grabbed during the first hit of the Ftilt and it if Snake gets all trigger happy with it, then thats exactly whats going to happen.

3. Snakes can and will duck right underneath your arrows.
Arrows can be aimed downwards.

4. Pit will never, NEVER want to be in melee range of Snake during this matchup. He will completely **** you there.
More or less thats true, Pit's melee moves have to be spaced correctly to avoid be punished but Pit isn't helpless like you're making it seem.

5. You aren't going to be grab-release gimping any good Snakes.
True, but once you grab release a Snake it becomes a lot easier for Pit to gimp them as they won't be recovering as high.

6. Snake will C4/Nikita edgeguard the hell out of Pit. Pit doesn't exactly have the world's least gimpable recovery either.
I don't see how C4 will be that helpful in stopping Pit from recovering and the Nikita missle is slow when changing directions. Gliding's speed easily prevents Pit from being hit by a Nikita and Arrows can be shot to interrupt Snake when recovering so it isn't that big of a threat.

7. Um.....Snake will stay out of the air if at all possible, so try to keep him there.
So true.

8. You keep on talking about a minor fthrow chain, but Snake's grab is better than Pit's, and it will setup for much more melee range ****.
Snakes grab range may be better than Pits but Pits grabs position opponents for followups better than Snake's grabs.

So yeah, I don't play Snake, but I know that much. I'd say about 60:40 Snake at best. (For Pit, that is. Snake ***** noobs easy)
I honestly can't see how this matchup would be in Snakes favour at all.

you rly underestimate the power of the motar
its rly hard to avoid if recovered from below and it adds pressure
I assume you mean if Pit is recovering from below? If so then its not a threat in the slightest. If not then you're going to have to explain yourself better.
 

Admiral Pit

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I refuse to say The matchup is in Snake's favor. It doesnt matter if he is overpowered or not, Pit still has his counters.
I'm adding the Angel Ring is able to reflect both Mortars and Nikitas, Mirror Shield is better off reflecting Nikitas rather than mortars.
Pit's ability to pressure opponents is what will also get snake down.
Should Pit grab a Grenade he could use his great glidetoss to his advantage to further pressure a snake.

The Up-B could push Snake's Nades away at will, as well as destroy the mines.
Pit does better than some assume.
 

Ryanarius

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@ random points throughout thread: Snake is really fat fully refreshed fsmash may kill espeically with favorable map position but if snake pulls a nade right before the fsmash you'll both blow up and your fsmash is a bit depleted. He can survive a lot longer against pit by just having a nade on him to prevent the death blow.

Keeping your attacks refreshed is important. Pummels, jabs and arrows are always best for this. Keep track of your kill moves don't be scared to use them but don't deplete them right before he's in kill range.

Snakes grab range may be better than Pits but Pits grabs position opponents for followups better than Snake's grabs.
Snake's dthrow does 12 damage and with a bit of luck can generally set up another attack.

I refuse to say The matchup is in Snake's favor. It doesnt matter if he is overpowered or not, Pit still has his counters.
I'm adding the Angel Ring is able to reflect both Mortars and Nikitas, Mirror Shield is better off reflecting Nikitas rather than mortars.
Pit's ability to pressure opponents is what will also get snake down.
Should Pit grab a Grenade he could use his great glidetoss to his advantage to further pressure a snake.

The Up-B could push Snake's Nades away at will, as well as destroy the mines.
Pit does better than some assume.
Angel ring does reflect mortars but you have to be in a decent position to reflect them. The lag on angel ring makes it risky.

A snake somewhat familar with the matchup shouldn't let you reflect nakitas... he controls them and has to drive them into your reflectors for them to reflect. If a snake doesn't know the mathcup he may do this but chances are he'll expect you to try to reflect it.

Snake can make pit drop gernades. Its really easy to do. Throwing gernades back at snake is often asking for trouble. If he has two gernades you can get away with it but the glidetoss isn't tremendously useful unless your really close to him and using it to backaway.
 

misterbushido01

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I assume you mean if Pit is recovering from below? If so then its not a threat in the slightest. If not then you're going to have to explain yourself better.
o wow im stupid i forgot about pit going below the stage
my bad , i keep on forgetting about it since i fight pits that doesnt do that
 

FzeroX

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something I want to throw into the mix.

Use Utilit ALOT, it will clank with any of his moves, even it they are disjointed it will still clank.I have a snapshot of pit's utilt clanking snakes ftilt when they arent even touching.
 

AndrewCarlson

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I refuse to say The matchup is in Snake's favor. It doesnt matter if he is overpowered or not, Pit still has his counters.
I'm adding the Angel Ring is able to reflect both Mortars and Nikitas, Mirror Shield is better off reflecting Nikitas rather than mortars.
Pit's ability to pressure opponents is what will also get snake down.
Should Pit grab a Grenade he could use his great glidetoss to his advantage to further pressure a snake.

The Up-B could push Snake's Nades away at will, as well as destroy the mines.
Pit does better than some assume.
I agree. This is one match-up that I strongly feel is in Pit's advantage. It's one of his only good (60:40 at least) match-ups against a Top Tier character (the other being Dedede).
 

AndrewCarlson

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A few more opinions:

Pit gets murdered terribly by Snake. Snake can running powershield all of Pit's arrows, pit has NOTHING against Snake on the ground. He gets outranged, his grab game pales in comparison to Snake's. Snake kills him very early, Pit can never kill Snake. Snake wins this matchup with his eyes closed.
Yeah, he has nothing against Pit on the ground, but Pit's throws are some of the best in the game for positioning. The position it puts Pit in is ideal for quite a few things, and his throws work extremely well against Snake.

That said, Snake still wins in the matchup.
 

CaliburChamp

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I don't understand why people say Pit can't do good against Snake, cause Snake can powershield... every character in the game can powershield. I do agree that Pit has to be cheap to win against Snake, but that makes it fair anyways, since Snake is one heck of a cheap character from some ridiculously over powered moves and unmatched stage control. And with Wing refresh, you can follow up to Snake's recovery and gimp him with a f-air or b-air. Spamming arrows can be effective too, just mix it up, shoot rapid arrows, charge the arrows a bit as Snake shields, then release, shoot rapidly arrows, then charged arrows when Snake is shielding. If you keep shooting rapid arrows, then Snake will eventually powershield most of them and be up in your face.
 

AndrewCarlson

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Most people just underestimate Pit; even the really good players underrate him because they've never seen a truly professional Pit in their league.
 

KY_Des

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Some of the reasons behind ppl's opinions of the match up are a bit ridiculous.

Sure, Pit can AR the mortar, but when does that really happen? Plus Snake can pull a grenade out after the 2nd fthrow of the chain grab. fthrow -> fthrow -> dthrow -> uair works pretty well though. Pit's arrows are a huge nuisance to Snake, and he ***** Snake in the air. Pit can punish Snake's recovery pretty well too. Just Wing Refresh and chase after.

Snake's f-tilt ***** EVERYONE, period. He can ftilt you through AR as well, so AR probably isn't a smart decision in this fight. Snake's also huge and hard for Pit to KO. Snake, on the other hand, can kill Pit with a utilt at 110 guaranteed, 95-100 if you don't DI well. A smart Snake won't get gimped out of cypher by a grab (but grab releasing at the ledge making him drop is effective to follow up for bair stage spike etc.) He also completely outranges Pit on the ground.

Pit could possibly have a SLIGHT advantage if you play gay as hell (I mean realllllllly gay), but to be realistic I'd say it's 50-50 at BEST for Pit. In my personal opinion it's 55-45 Snake. I can never win this match up. I think I need to out alot more gay into my playstyle against Snake lol.

EDIT
Jesus! Sorry so long, my baaaad =P
 

Ryanarius

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Here is some match videos showing what Pit can do to beat Snake and why I think Pit has the match up advantage against Snake.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IoozC5UIpAk&feature=PlayList&p=A8385BD124D2EE86&index=58
Thats a good snake but he completely choked the second stock. Danny was able to gimp him but thats because he didn't focus on recovering and instead made a dumb move and still the snake almost won it. Besides that I was surprised he didn't cook gernades more to deal with danny's ledgecamping. Pit can beat snake but snake has the advantage in the matchup.
 

CaliburChamp

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Well here is more proof that Pit is a good matchup against Snake. I fought this really ridiculously good Snake yesterday, and beat him with Pit on Jungle Japes. The match was close, it came down to the last stock but with him at high % and my Pit at low %. Which is pretty good considering I just started playing Pit. Then he choose other characters and continued on beating my Pit, Snake wasn't his main, I dont think he had a main, he was a random character master, and was the best player I fought yet (I'm not making this up.) His name is KJ and he lives in Canada, and we played alot of matches on AiB.
 

Doctor X

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Jury's still very much out on this one for me... Pit shuts down most of Snake's projectile game, but Snake doesn't really need his projectile game so much as ftilt. -.-

Pit's edgecamping can easily be beaten by a Snake who doesn't fail. Grenade strips and shielding at the edge work wonders. Honestly I think he's one of the characters who is better off against it.
 

Coffee™

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Solid Snake, quite the character. Currently occupying the second spot on the tier list you can be assured that he can be quite potent in the right hands.

Ok first of all Snake is heavy, (the third heaviest character in the game),has a fantastic and powerful close range moveset with a few moves having some deceivingly large hitboxes and his myriad of projectiles which allow him to more or less control the stage and the tempo of the game at his leisure, if he weren’t playing Pit that is.

Snakes projectile game consists of 5 projectiles; more than any other character in the game and each of them have their own distinct purposes. First are his Grenades. A projectile that comes out on frame 1 and lasts for 5 seconds before it explodes. Snake can utilize this projectile in quite a number of ways. It enables Snake to potentially get out of chain grabs as well as combos from other characters once he is able to pull it out before that opposing character’s attack connects with Snake. If he is successful then his opponent’s attack will hit the Grenade and it will explode on impact, damaging both Snake and his opponent and with Snakes heavy weight and above average recovery he won’t mind taking a little damage here or there as he will generally live to some fairly high percentages. This aspect of Snake’s game is a pure nuisance for Pit as a lot of Pit’s attacks such as Uair and Nair are multi-hitting attacks and will cause the Grenade to explode before the attack is finish. Snake can also throw these Grenades , which do roughly the same damage as one of Pit’s Arrows if they hit you directly and significantly more damage if they explode on you, however it should be of note that Pit can reflect these back at Snake using either Angel Ring or Mirror Shield without much if any harm to himself, but should be wary if Snake “cooks” the Grenade (holding it himself until it is near ready to explode) before throwing it as you won’t be able to reflect the explosion with the Angel Ring and you will get hit. However, Mirror Shield will enable you to block the explosion if you are directly behind it so most of the time you should be opting for Mirror Shield over Angel Ring when attempting to reflect Grenades.

Snakes next projectile is his C4, a projectile that can be stuck to any character or placed on the ground and detonated at Snake’s leisure. This projectile is extremely annoying as you have to constantly keep in mind where Snake has placed it and generally avoid that area of the stage as much as possible to avoid being hit. Sounds easy enough but the C4 is extremely small and camouflages well in certain stages and it’s easy to remember it’s there until it’s too late. If Snake stick the C4 to you directly then he is free to hit you whenever he pleases however when it is detonated it is possible to shield the explosion to avoid damage so if you find yourself stuck with a C4 it would be best to avoid the air until you can get the C4 to drop off or until Snake detonates it himself.

The Mortar or Snake’s Up Smash is a projectile where Snake places a launcher on the ground and fires a Mortar upwards that explodes on contact with and opponent or when it makes contact with the ground after falling, Snake is also unaffected by the resulting explosion. The Mortar can be a bit of a hassle for Pit when trying to make it back to the stage but it follows a set trajectory and is generally easy to avoid through Gliding, the use of Woi or simply spacing your jumps well. Angel Ring and Mirror Shield are again useful here in that they reflect the explosion now allowing it to hit Snake, while doing no damage to Pit. In contrast to Grenades Angel Ring is the more useful reflector here as with Mirror shield you have to be spaced very well to actually reflect the explosion and avoid being actually hit where Angel Ring’s lunging effect allows you a bit more safety when reflecting Snake’s projectile. Snake can also use this projectile in close range combat in tandem with a cancelled Dash Attack to form his Snake Dash. In a Snake Dash Snake cancels his Dash attack and immediately goes into this Up Smash which now gains horizontal momentum from the Dash Attack. It makes for quite a decent approach against most characters but isn’t really that useful against Pit as his Arrows disrupt it, his Mirror Shield reflects the direction of it and as will all other characters Snake can be shield grabbed out of it. The attack is also generally telegraphed as it is probably the only time you will see a Snake start to run towards you so you should have little trouble with it.

Snake’s remaining two projectiles are the Nikita Missile and his Landmines. Neither is used much but each has specific uses and should not be overlooked. Firstly the Landmines or Snake’s Down Smash is somewhat similar to Snake’s C4 in that they are also placed on the ground and can be difficult to see but they actually detonate on impact from anything or anyone, this includes projectiles and even Snake himself. Snake takes a little while to lay down a Landmine and if hit before he gets back up he will not place down the mine. Pit’s Arrows are extremely effective here as they prevent Snake from laying Landmines as well as explode Landmines they come into contact with. These aren’t really that much of a threat to Pit but still something that you should be on the lookout for as they do pack quite a punch if you get hit by it.

Nikita Missiles are remote controlled missiles that Snake has to direct himself. Snakes cannot move when using the Nikita so you should aim take advantage of that as much as possible. Nikita Missiles are normally used to edgeguard but they aren’t much of a thread to Pit as they are only fast when travelling in a straight line but very slow when changing direction. Spacing your jumps, air dodging, Woi and Gliding should allow you to easily out maneuver one of them. Nikita Missiles can also be reflected back at Snake with your Mirror Shield; however the Angel Ring will only slow them down as will any other damaging move. Generally it isn’t really a projectile you should be too concerned about. Overall your projectile game is better than his in this matchup as it will limit his own as well as force him to approach. Abuse that fact and try to keep control of the tempo of the match.

Now that projectiles are out of the way we can look at Snakes close range moveset and offstage game. Snake has some ridiculous range on his close range attacks and they are all very powerful and for the most part outclass your own in both aspects. In terms of close range combat Snake will generally only be using 3 melee moves, his F-Tilt, his U-Tilt and his Jab combo. His F-Tilt is comprised of 2 hits. An initial hit with his knee which can sometimes trip you followed by a two handed swing. It has incredible range and when fresh will do 21%. Pit doesn’t have any moves that outrange the lunge of the second hit of his F-Tilt aside from his Angel Ring which wouldn’t be the most ideal move to be using in this situation so your best option will be to try to shield grab the first hit or to simply wait out both hits before trying to retaliate. Once spaced well Pit’s SH Fair outranges anything Snake can throw at you from off the ground aside from the second hit of his F-Tilt so it will mostly likely be your move of choice when attempting to take Snake on from close range. Snake’s U-Tilt is another commonly used move that has deceiving range for its looks and is also incredibly powerful, KOing Pit off the top of the screen when fresh before 100%. You cannot shield grab Snake out of his U-Tilt so it is best to simply shield it then retaliate with your own F-Tilt which has the same range. Mirror Shield can reflect the direction of the U-Tilt as well as protect you from it if recovering from above so that’s also another option here. Snakes Jab combo is also extremely good, does 14% when fresh and simply tells most characters to GTFO of Snake’s face as it has good knockback for as simple AAA combo. Your best response to it would be to shield grab after the first two hits or reply with a D-Tilt or F-Tilt of your own after all three hits. Pit can chaingrab Snake to around 40% with his Forward Throw so don’t hesitate to chase after Snake after your initial throw provided you are still at a low percentage. Another thing to watch out for when at close range would be Snake’s Down Throw as it can be tech chased into a myriad of options, I won’t analyze any of them here but try to be as unpredictable as possible with your getting up options as to avoid any kind of tech chase.

As far as Snake’s aerial game is concerned, it’s pretty lackluster. On the contrary this is where Pit excels and where he should be aiming to take the matchup every time. The only moves Pit really has to be remotely concerned with here are Snake’s Fair which can spike and his 4 hit Nair which has a fairly powerful final blow. However it is avoidable with good DI so as far as Snakes aerial game is concerned Pit really has nothing to fear. A lot of Pit’s moves such as his Dair, D-Tilt and Down Throw propel opponents upwards (ironic since they are all downwards aimed attacks) and these three moves should be staples when fighting Snake at close range.

Snake’s recovery is above average in that it allows Snake to recover really high into the air easily enabling him to get back to the stage once knocked in a horizontal direction. However, Snake is relatively easy for Pit to gimp once he gets him offstage as his recovery has a fairly obvious trajectory and really isn’t too hard for Pit to take advantage of. WOP Fairs and Bairs are the way to go to in taking Snake out offstage. Arrows aren’t as useful as they are with other characters because Snake’s Cypher gives him superarmor frames and it would require to Pit at least half charge his Arrows before they are capable of taking him off the Cypher, time better spent simply jumping off the stage after Snake or using Wing Refresh to chase after him.

Overall the match is a relatively easy one for Pit in comparison to the other top tier characters. Your Arrows and two Reflectors are the keys to your success here as they limit Snake’s projectile game and force him to play in a more offensive manner, one that be capitalized on fairly easily with some smart playing. Don’t think this match will be a walk in the park however, as Snake is powerful and his attacks will kill you at relatively low percentages. Aim to take the fight to the air and offstage and you should be able to win it.
Snake matchup summary.
 

cj.Shark

Smash Ace
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Bay area, California
Jury's still very much out on this one for me... Pit shuts down most of Snake's projectile game, but Snake doesn't really need his projectile game so much as ftilt. -.-

Pit's edgecamping can easily be beaten by a Snake who doesn't fail. Grenade strips and shielding at the edge work wonders. Honestly I think he's one of the characters who is better off against it.
Winged ledge grab pushes snake and the nade away. mix it up ! dont keep upairing when he stands there.
 

Tipzntrix

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
89
Here is some match videos showing what Pit can do to beat Snake and why I think Pit has the match up advantage against Snake.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IoozC5UIpAk&feature=PlayList&p=A8385BD124D2EE86&index=58
That video also have some insane reasons why Snake can beat Pit. Note at about 2:30 Pit Fsmashed snake to a total of 129% and Snake didn't die. Snake later comes back to grenade drop Pit at the ledge and eventually hit with a few following up with a C4 kill. This is quite deadly to what Pit's ledgecamping was doing. Check 5:20-5:30 where Pit lands an Fsmash to 133% and Snake survives and an Ftilt to 146% and Snake survives that too.

Snake even pulled out a grenade on occasion to screw up Pit's multi-hits. Lastly, why exactly do his tilts kill faster than your smashes :(? They also come out faster and you're going to have to approach to get a kill sometime. Downsmash is generally more useful than Fsmash IMO because it's faster.
 
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