New AT: Stun Jacket

Pierce7d · Oct 26, 2008

A gift from the Marth boards!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=201884

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 26, 2008

FE sticks together. Name sounds kool I shall read.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

Doesn't seem very useful.

YagamiLight · Oct 26, 2008

Reading now. Thank you Marth boards.

•Col• · Oct 26, 2008

Oh cool, I guess... I THINK I understand it... xD

Too bad it's only really useful in teams... D: Ike needs more help in the 1 on 1 department right now...

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ · Oct 26, 2008

It can be useful outside of teams, read, Pierce's post, the one after Vyse's if you want to see more applications.

Pierce7d · Oct 26, 2008

Yeah, but equipping it outside of teams on purpose is ALMOST impossible in most cases in a serious match.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

S.O.L.I.D. said:
It can be useful outside of teams, read, Pierce's post, the one after Vyse's if you want to see more applications.

Again, applications which are
A: Highly situational.
B: For Marth.
C: Likely to get you killed setting them up.

•Col• · Oct 26, 2008

S.O.L.I.D. said:
It can be useful outside of teams, read, Pierce's post, the one after Vyse's if you want to see more applications.

Colaya said:
Oh cool, I guess... I THINK I understand it... xD

Too bad it's only really useful in teams... D: Ike needs more help in the 1 on 1 department right now...

It's too hard to equip in 1 vs. 1 to be useful. Also.....

Pierce7d said:
Yeah, but equipping it outside of teams on purpose is ALMOST impossible in most cases in a serious match.

EDIT: and WTF? O_o

Your post in the original thread:

S.O.L.I.D. said:
This is pretty cool Pierce, I don't know how it is usable other than teams though other than better DI though, but nice find dude.

Lulz. Contradiction. D:

HeroMystic · Oct 26, 2008

I can tell this will be very, very, useful later on.

Don't disregard too early, Ikes. I can already see the theories.

Kinzer · Oct 26, 2008

Man it would help if there was a video of this. I'm more of a visual learner, but I at least can see how this would be useful in teams with certain partners.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

HeroMystic said:
I can tell this will be very, very, useful later on.

Don't disregard too early, Ikes. I can already see the theories.

And I can already see the limitations. For one thing, it requires a windbox. You're not going to find many of those outside of Tink's dair and Pit's wings.

HeroMystic · Oct 26, 2008

No it doesn't. Read it again.

It requires hurtboxes that are not part of the character sprite.

In all actuality, it just requires the counter to miss.

Pierce7d · Oct 26, 2008

Windboxes are more common than you think. For example, I bet you didn't know Ness' downB has a Windbox. I was able to equip the jacket onto Ness when I properly executed this technique in midair. Furthermore, it doesn't require only Windboxes. MK's Tornado and Falco's deflector can activate it. D3 has a Windbox, and G&W's UpB works too. That's 4 of the 6 characters that the MBR considers to be S tier.

Missing isn't the only requirement though. If I counter D3's hammer, it won't equip the jacket. Missing is the hardest part though, otherwise, the jacket will get consumed by the hit of counter.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

HeroMystic said:
No it doesn't. Read it again.

It requires hurtboxes that are not part of the character sprite.

In all actuality, it just requires the counter to miss.

And that's about the point where you get owned. Seriously dude, if the counter misses a move that hits it, it's basically lunch time for said receiver of Stun Jacket.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

Pierce7d said:
Windboxes are more common than you think. For example, I bet you didn't know Ness' downB has a Windbox. I was able to equip the jacket onto Ness when I properly executed this technique in midair. Furthermore, it doesn't require only Windboxes. MK's Tornado and Falco's deflector can activate it. D3 has a Windbox, and G&W's UpB works too. That's 4 of the 6 characters that the MBR considers to be S tier.

Again, it's nice and all, but you aren't going to be countering any of those moves very often. And let's talk about what's goint to happen once you get the SJ on them, shall we? Not very much. Their recoveries get better, and they might fall into another hit. That's about all. Not much reward for the risk, I say.

HeroMystic · Oct 26, 2008

OF COURSE IT'S SITUATIONAL!

You're thinking too limited.

This can actually gives Ike's counter a USE other than "Hmm... I think the opponent will do th--OH **** WRONG BRAALGH!"

Seriously, read this part.

When the Jacket is activated, the person who gets hit receives INCREASED HITSTUN and DELAYED (not decresed) KNOCKBACK. This is important, because it grants the victim more time to DI, which makes it appear like some attacks have decreased knockback.

In singles, the most useful thing I've found for this is that it gives not only regular hitstun but also SHIELD hitstun. This means that some moves will become safe on block if spaced well, such as Marth's ftilt, so long as your opponent is wearing the Stun Jacket.

Imagine if the jacket was on the opponent, and Ike grabbed the opponent, pummeled him, grabbed released, jabbed, then have enough time to get out a f-tilt.

Don't disregard new things because they can't be added onto current tactics. You have to be inventive and make up new scenarios.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

HeroMystic said:
OF COURSE IT'S SITUATIONAL!

You're thinking too limited.

This can actually gives Ike's counter a USE other than "Hmm... I think the opponent will do th--OH **** WRONG BRAALGH!"

Seriously, read this part.

Imagine if the jacket was on the opponent, and Ike grabbed the opponent, pummeled him, grabbed released, jabbed, then have enough time to get out a f-tilt.

Don't disregard new things because they can't be added onto current tactics. You have to be inventive and make up new scenarios.

I'm being a Devil's advocate. You have to prove that it can be used well before it can be incorporated.

And as to your example, that wouldn't work. The pummel would activate it, resulting in said dude getting out before the ftilt hits.

Finally, while it may make moves safer on block, the thing is that IT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE PER TIME. You have to put yourself out there in order to make ONE move safer? My analysis says this isn't very useful at all. Kind of like Ganondorf's instant shockwave. It's usable, but you're much better off not using it.

•Col• · Oct 26, 2008

Could you use the Stun Jacket if you counter an usmash while your above an opponent and the counter misses? Cuz that's what usually causes me to miss a counter.... xD

HeroMystic · Oct 26, 2008

Hm, I missed that pummel part.

It's still applicable to taller characters that don't have the option to jump-release however. (And it still works on squirtle's ******** air release).

Seriously, I'm disappointed that you all are disregarding this completely. This is why metagames don't get evolved and people complain about it.

SaltyKracka · Oct 26, 2008

HeroMystic said:
Hm, I missed that pummel part.

It's still applicable to taller characters that don't have the option to jump-release however. (And it still works on squirtle's ******** air release).

Seriously, I'm disappointed that you all are disregarding this completely. This is why metagames don't get evolved and people complain about it.

I'm not disregarding it, I'm just saying that it's almost useless. Setting it up (assuming you even get a chance to) puts you in a bad position, there's no real way to take advantage of it that gives Ike an obvious advantage, and it helps the opponent recover. I'm seriously going to state that it's not of much use in 1v1s.

HeroMystic · Oct 26, 2008

You can't say it's useless without trying to find uses for it. Your statement does not hold any more water than mine does.

All I'm saying is TRY IT. If we don't find a good use for it, then fine, but don't say it's useless when we haven't even touched it yet.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 26, 2008

tall characters can air release as long as your opponent has the ability to move the control stick.

Wyvern-x · Oct 26, 2008

If this adds hitstun to grab releases you might be able to pull air release-> Sliding U-smash on MK.

Lex Crunch · Oct 27, 2008

Definitely harder for Ike, but certainly still applicable. I just started doing doubles matches, so this could get interesting.

Ussi · Oct 27, 2008

I think this is basically for countering those usmashes and missing them. I say this is just to come into play when we missed a counter. Not trying to get this. If we miss the counter, we try this out. that way we aren't going out of our way. But hey! It's Marth/Ike's first AT o_O...

Kinzer · Oct 27, 2008

We have the Step-Draw O.o (Although I could be happy if we called it the Light-Draw, after YagamiLight first proposed it...I'm still unsure of who really did came up with it first though, Burrito KNEW how to do it with the standard GCC setup?!)

Pierce7d · Oct 27, 2008

SaltyKracka said:
Again, it's nice and all, but you aren't going to be countering any of those moves very often. And let's talk about what's goint to happen once you get the SJ on them, shall we? Not very much. Their recoveries get better, and they might fall into another hit. That's about all. Not much reward for the risk, I say.

HeroMystic said:
You can't say it's useless without trying to find uses for it. Your statement does not hold any more water than mine does.

All I'm saying is TRY IT. If we don't find a good use for it, then fine, but don't say it's useless when we haven't even touched it yet.

This. I found out mad stuff by ACCIDENT, such as the existence of it, and how it works with Windboxes, and that it works with other stuff besides Windboxes. These were all accidental discoveries, because I was TESTING it. Technically, this glitch has been known for ages. Marths ALWAYS knew that if you countered MK's tornado and missed, this funny glitch happened, but no one explored it. I didn't find out the best trick in the world, but I found something, that lead to something, that lead to something, and now we know a lot more than we did before, and we have a slightly deeper look into the mechanics of what we thought was a shallow game.

I agree that it's pretty useless in singles as of now, but don't just throw it away.

Also, since it needs hitboxes to activate, grab release won't activate the jacket, as grabs and most throws do not.

•Col• · Oct 27, 2008

Kinzer said:
We have the Step-Draw O.o (Although I could be happy if we called it the Light-Draw, after YagamiLight first proposed it...I'm still unsure of who really did came up with it first though, Burrito KNEW how to do it with the standard GCC setup?!)

Uh....... What are you talking about? xD

XACE-K · Oct 27, 2008

Just read it. I'll try it out later.

Kinzer · Oct 27, 2008

Colaya said:
Uh....... What are you talking about? xD

Nevermind I suppose.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 27, 2008

Kinzer said:
Nevermind I suppose.

thats right shut up yagami fan boy.

Also it was kirk that knew how not me. I have this thing though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxsPAxwGCCI

keep it on the JK.

Guilhe · Oct 27, 2008

Kinzer said:
We have the Step-Draw O.o

That's B reversal, it is a general AT that was confirmed before Light nominated it. Attention Ike boards! I nominate reversed Eruption “Guilheruption”!

HeroMystic · Oct 27, 2008

^lawl.

Seriously, come on peeps, we don't need to make idle insults.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 27, 2008

If this worked with grab releases then it would mean air release wario to Fsmash. But it doesn't...

Hoser · Oct 28, 2008

Does countering projectiles work? Because if so, that would probably be the best way to obtain the stun jacket.

HeroMystic · Oct 28, 2008

Cambriel said:
Does countering projectiles work?

It doesn't work.

New AT: Stun Jacket

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