Before you make a zapjump or Magnet pull "help me" thread...

Some Edits:
• I do not recommend b-sticking. You are much better off learning to manually wavebounce since its applicable to the entire cast, NONE of whom really benifit from b-sticking. Everything is possible without b-sticking, just marginally more difficult.
•Timing the psi-m later on for a magnet pull reduces its length. Bad idea? Not if you would have gimmicked yourself into someone's spike!



Zapjumping FTW


What is Zapjumping and Why is it Important?

By using pk-fire immediately after a second jump, Lucas will dramatically increase the jumps height and speed while using pk-fire. The height, speed, and direction of a zapjump can be modified. Zapjumps can also be wavebounced and by using a magnet pull here, Lucas' recovery becomes truly absurd (aka Wavezaps, my favorite Lucas trick <3). This technique is extremely important for Lucas' recovery game and is critical in certain matchups.

It is a fast, long ranged, nearly ungimpable recovery option. Character's that rely on (or are just really good at) gimp kills will wreck Lucas if you only use PKT2 and his tether. Think about how many aerial moves beat the PKT1. Also important to keep in mind is that zapjumps do not leave you helpless, unlike PKT2. Zapjumping often catches opponents off guard, and can be used in extremely surprising ways (more on this below). It vastly expands Lucas' comfort zone and allows a lot more freedom offstage.

Also... Zapjumping looks really cool. You probably play Lucas cause he's cool, since HE SURE AS H*** ISN'T GOOD in vBrawl!


How is Zapjumping executed?

Short Answer: double jump and pkf at almost exactly the same time. The jump must come first. The timing is tricky at first but gets much easier with practice. Keep in mind that you can't immediately zapjump out of hitstun (it is a double jump first after all).

Long Answer: What you can do with zapjumps will depend on your control setup, especially whether you b-stick. The standard zapjump is simply double jump + a-stick forward + b (ie, pkf in the direction you face initially).

These attributes can be altered:

Direction of pkf:
-you can do a turnaround pkf, although that reduces the height and speed of the zapjump.
-you can b-reverse the pkf. This does not affect normal zapjumps (although it does effect wavezaps).

Height and Speed: The standard zapjump gives you the most vertical distance.
-turnarounds lower the height and speed of a zapjump.
-recoil momentum somewhat lowers the height of a zapjump. (b-stick required)
-b-reversals do not change the height or speed
--keep in mind that a wavezap is automatically a turnaround (and a b-reversal) (b-stick required)

Recoil and horizontal distance.
-wavebouncing creates the most recoil and horizontal movement. You can magnet pull off this.
-doing a "still" zapjump (no controller stick input) creates slight recoil, enough to wavebounce a pkf off of (more on that later).
- b-reversals do not affect recoil but can affect horizontal distance (see below).
-tapjump can create a sort of weakened recoil effect (I'll need to expand on this a bit).
--recoil opens up the possibility for additional effects such as a wavebounced pkf or magnet pull.

The shape of the Jump:
-normal zapjumps are essentially straight whereas wavezaps curve. Neutral b-sticked zapjumps curve to a lesser degree. (the obvious)
-b-reversing a wavezap allows you to jump backwards and recoil backwards. This is a distinctly different shape from a normal or turnaround wavezap. It also has the greatest horizontal distance (w/ a magnet pull its the longest recovery option lucas has).


*Keep in mind that if you aren't facing the way you want initially you can easily turn around using Psi-M.


What is the best controller setup for zapjumping? Do I have to B-stick?

Zapjumping can be done with a number of different controller setups. The best one to use is the one which best fits your playstyle. You don't actually have to change anything to zapjump.

B-sticking: You DO NOT have to b-stick to zapjump. I b-sticked for a long time. Then I got tired of using multiple control schemes and just settled on one which does not involved the b-stick. I find that setting one of the shoulder buttons as "special" helps immensely but it honestly is just a matter of preference. Wavezap + recovery claw = pain in the a** imo.

Tapjump: Tapjumping can be used for to zapjump if you b-stick. I used this setup for a while and do not recommend it as a primary method. It is required for "variable recoil" zapjumps but that isn’t super-important. It is highly recommended for meteor canceling.

Special set as z/L/R: this will make zapjumping much easier on the hands.

Most players use this:

The Recovery Claw: No changes need to be made. You curve your hand to hit y and b at roughly the same time. I hate it. It is usable and a lot of players are fine with it. You can only do the standard zapjump, which can be turned around or b-reversed (or both). Its pretty limited in terms of manipulation but most players don’t care (“tear”).

--switching jump to L/R/z makes the claw less painful (and... not a claw). I don't think there is any reason not to do this.


Zapjump vs. knockback

Zapjumping is a modified double jump so… airdodging and then zapjumping with DI will increase your survivability. I don’t have enough data on this to conclusively say that it is better than using a f-air to negate horizontal or d-air to negate vertical knockback, however I believe that a specific type of zapjump does improve horizontal survivability.

Performing a wavezap, facing the stage, and b-reversing, such that you jump backwards and also bounce back, should improve horizontal survivability. If anyone has data on this, please inform me. I have only attempted this a few times (friendlies), and I’ve always survived, but… maybe I would have anyway.

Its not practical, merely cool, much like Lucas...

Zapjump vs. Meteor Stun

You can meteor cancel with a zapjump in the same way you would cancel with a normal double jump. Its just... very difficult. That being said, a zapjump meteor cancel will cause your opponent to sh** their pants. Whereas after a normal meteor cancel (with lucas at least) you are still in a bad position, a zapjump can completely bypass an edgeguard and actually put you in a position to retaliate... bad***.

Wave-bounced zapjump meteor cancels are absurd... absolutely absurd. Snazzy!

Zapjump vs. magnet pull/pkf recoil


If you zapjump immediately after a wavebounced pkf or magnet pull it will not automatically become a wavezap, despite the momentum. This is due to the DJ canceling the recoil. In fact, if you try to wavezap, you will get reduced horizontal distance and increased vertical distance.


MAGNET PULLING

Q: How do I magnet Pull?
A: Immediately after wavebouncing a pkf, or shooting a pkf while moving in the opposite direction, you gain a burst of momentum: recoil. Using a psi-m immediately will create the magnet pull effect.

Q: Can you magnet pull from knockback momentum?
A: No

Q: Is magnet pulling a way of surviving horizontal knockback?
A: No

Q: What control do you have over magnet pulls?
A: You can control the direction traveled (by b-reversing) and the direction faced when the magnet pull starts and ends (control stick input).

Q: Is magnet pull a good attack?
A: I wouldn't make it a habit.

Q: It seems like b-sticking psi-m for magnet pull makes my magnet pull slightly shorter. Why?
A: If you maintain the Psi-M, say by holding b, the recoil of the magnet pull will create a wavebounced magnet pull effect automatically... which brings me to my next question.

Q: Can you wavebounce after a magnet pull?
A: Yes, right after a magnet pull you can wavebounce PKF (shoot opposite the direction of motion), a PsiM or a PK-freeze (why?). If you wavebounce a pkf you can follow up with another magnet pull. This is easier to perform if you b-stick.

Q: Is there an advantage to b-sticking in regards to magnet pulls?
A: No, lrn2techskill.



If anyone has any other questions, feel free to ask.

Pretty usefull thread IMO.
This should be stickied for all the Lucas newcomers.

P.S. : Maybe you could give it some more color or something, to make it look better?

Suway said:

Pretty usefull thread IMO.
This should be stickied for all the Lucas newcomers.

P.S. : Maybe you could give it some more color or something, to make it look better?

Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm gonna make it pretty (6pmish I'll get the time)

I don't think it should be stickied, but we should keep it bumped for a while. Definately informative for those who don't know.

To keep the magnet pull section parallel to the zap jump section, you should add:

"How do I magnet pull?"
"What is the point (of a magnet pull)?"
"What affects magnet pull distance?"

I'm still surprised at how many people don't know about Magnet Pulling. Not Lucases, but I mean people who have other mains. On Halloween I did it at a tournament and everyone was like "What the ****?"

I guess there really aren't a lot of us Earthbounders out there, eh...

i know how to wavezap for recovery, and i use magnet pull after it, but i have to use the pk fire to the other side, so i prefer the normal zapjump and hit my opponent with the pk fire

prOAPC said:

i know how to wavezap for recovery, and i use magnet pull after it, but i have to use the pk fire to the other side, so i prefer the normal zapjump and hit my opponent with the pk fire

Click to expand...

I usually do zap jump then follow with a wave bounced pk fire to magnet pull that way i can hit the opponent and easily get back on stage

I still suprise people with the zap jump occasionally.

prOAPC said:

i know how to wavezap for recovery, and i use magnet pull after it, but i have to use the pk fire to the other side, so i prefer the normal zapjump and hit my opponent with the pk fire

Click to expand...

The standard zapjump provides enough momentum to create the wavebounce effect. Just pkf in the direction you are facing again, and b-reverse it. The recoil is magnified in the second pkf. You can then use that to magnet pull. Neat, no?

Super Calo said:

To keep the magnet pull section parallel to the zap jump section, you should add:

"How do I magnet pull?"
"What is the point (of a magnet pull)?"
"What affects magnet pull distance?"

Click to expand...

1. added.
2. people can figure that out on their own
3. I'll get to that, its less significant than the zapjump variations.

Levitas said:

I don't think it should be stickied, but we should keep it bumped for a while. Definately informative for those who don't know.

Click to expand...

Getting this stickied would be great, but its nowhere near that now. The aesthetic part of this will likely come last, and it sure is needed.

I intend to add in the more advanced stuff: ledgezap, techzaps, how to take advantage of meteor canceling, foot-stool zapping, recoil chains, etc.

Its not just new players who don't know that stuff, and some of it (techzaps especially) is very useful.

The problem with getting this stickied is that there's a thread that already has the same purpose as this, the compendium of lucas ATs.

before we consider this for a sticky, you should include all the content that that thread has, talk to GofG (I'm pretty sure it's his thread) and significantly improve upon the thread in either aesthetics or by including content that's been discovered since that thread's last update.

Once that happens, I can get this stickied for you.

Levitas said:

The problem with getting this stickied is that there's a thread that already has the same purpose as this, the compendium of lucas ATs.

before we consider this for a sticky, you should include all the content that that thread has, talk to GofG (I'm pretty sure it's his thread) and significantly improve upon the thread in either aesthetics or by including content that's been discovered since that thread's last update.

Once that happens, I can get this stickied for you.

Click to expand...

I'd love for GofG's thread to just get massively expanded. That would work fine... but its not really comprehensive. If it was, there wouldn't be all these little zapjump and magnet pull threads.

This thread looks like crap but well, yeah. I'm gonna try and spruce it up, or get a more competent friend to help.

As for new content, there is no mention about how pkf interacts with techjumps, walltech jumps (sweet... yoshi's story), meteor cancels, or footstool hops anywhere. Then there's the issue of using a b-reversed wavezap > magnet pull as a horizontal knockback counter. Strange effects with walls and ceilings. The fact that you can always bounce psi-m (weak magnet pull actually) off any pkf recoil. I could go on. I mean... even just b-reversing magnet pull.

I want to actually work on the aforementioned zap wall-tech jump thing in friendlies tonight... gotta get those kids to play yoshi's story...

By all means go for it. You misunderstood if you think I said don't do it.

Aha! Thanks man. Was so curious what the configuration was for zapjump. I knew it was B sticking, but having L be jump will help me so much!

However, I kinda hate B sticking. I use down c stick to dair all the time. It's become really helpful. Now, I find it aggravating to dair using the a button.
What am I gonna do??

i guess this thread is kinda useful =]

I'll add this thread to the Lucas index.

You should also mention that Zapjumping is nessecary against certain characters (Pit, MK, and Jiggs come to mind) and Magnet Pulling is harder to punish if you use it level or lower than the stage.

Zephron said:

Aha! Thanks man. Was so curious what the configuration was for zapjump. I knew it was B sticking, but having L be jump will help me so much!

However, I kinda hate B sticking. I use down c stick to dair all the time. It's become really helpful. Now, I find it aggravating to dair using the a button.
What am I gonna do??

Click to expand...

You don't have to b-stick. Its only needed to wavezap and for some finer manipulation. DON'T b-stick if it doesn't fit your playstyle.

Pressing forward on the control stick, b, and L/r/z is easier than the recovery claw. That's my recommendation for non b-stickers.

"z=jump: Why z? Lucas doesn't DAC. I don't like using L or R because I find z more responsive... personal bias. Also, I think that x is a much better button for grab (with no DAC potential for Lucas). Pivot grabs are easier as well. (Thumb beats pointer finger). Also, performing lagless FH pk-fire is stupidly easy.

U R ABSOLUTELY RITE Z FOR THE JUMPZ (HAHA although i dont play lucas, my friend does, which is y im here to c how i can pown him)

my control scheme is L-grab(CSMASH CHARGE) R-shield(GLIDE TOSS W/ ROB) Z-jump(IC JUMP FAIR) Y-shield(SHIELD GRAB=XD) X-grab(4 MY VERY SEXY GRAB GAME =D)

Don't have to revive the thread mr. U R ABSOLUTELY RITE Z FOR THE JUMPZ. Have a nice infraction and good day.

man, gud thing we gotz peepl wit 2 posts telling us how 2 do stoofs, I wuld not evr no hw to do aneething if it wuznt4 peepl liek him

haha, old thread is old

yez id's a g8 th!ng we has peepls 2 pst deeze gides 4 us...
and to tok en all CAPs
and to bomp old threeds

Neon Ness said:

I'm still surprised at how many people don't know about Magnet Pulling. Not Lucases, but I mean people who have other mains. On Halloween I did it at a tournament and everyone was like "What the ****?"

I guess there really aren't a lot of us Earthbounders out there, eh...

Click to expand...

Or more importantly, how many people only learn about their mains and learn nothing about their comp. Know ty' enemy.

Yeah, I went to a tourney and had to face a G&W, he tried way to hard to gimp me and went WTF when I magnet pulled back to the stage and wasn't able to gimp me once. I love you magnet pull =)

For those using classic controller, it's so ridiculously easy to zapjump using Y for jump, because it's so close to the control stick and B, I find it impossible to do using B-sticking on the CC.

I'm pretty sure I've wavezapped (That's where you go really high, then travel really far and fast horizontally right?) on the wiichuck, but I could be wrong...

there's even a little warning saying "you sure you wanna post? this thread is pretty old and stuff"

in any event, a lot of people seem to have forgotten about zap jumping and stuff, so maybe keeping this bumped for a little bit wouldn't be a bad idea until the new round of newbies figure stuff out.

I love you veril.

I love you sooo much.

This should be helpful for a ton of people saying "How do I recover like a pro?"

Or the generic how do I zapjump/magnet pull thread

This is a god.

Don't post in old threads kazz@

ok, I know how to magnet pull, but not zap pull. Every time I zap jump, and I pull out my magnet afterward, I remain in place. how exactly do i do it?

it has to be a wavebounced zap jump
that meas, press foward on the normal stick, backward on the b-stick, and use your second jump, all at the same time

Well I guess I'm the only Wiimote + Nunchuk guy here, still don't have Zap Jump down pat yet but Magnet Pull is sexy

I use Magnet Pulling as a recovery all the time. Control schemes for Wiimote/nunchuk are hard to change (doesn't have a gc controller). I've only managed to zapjump twice, and that's in Practice mode, lmao. Very useful, I will certain look into getting a Gc controller in the future.

XxNintenxX said:

Well I guess I'm the only Wiimote + Nunchuk guy here, still don't have Zap Jump down pat yet but Magnet Pull is sexy

Click to expand...

No, you're not alone actually. I use Wiichuk too. I figured out really good effects of Zapjumping by going to Training mode. I set it to 1/4 speed and practice until I get the timing right. Then I move a little bit higher on the speed chart. I've only got Zapjumping in normal speed 3 times. It's not hard, just timing.

omg why did this thread get bumped O.o

Seriously, I just came here to look at the Lucas frame data + post his throw frame data... and the last thing I expected was to see such an ancient thread return from the dead. Wow, I guess I should fix things up a bit now that I know ∞ more about the game.

Yeah, I honestly don't know know why this thread kept on getting bumped... perhaps Z-man should be less lazy or we should make a new Lucas Boards table of contents.

Anyway, you might as well add z-specialing to here now. It's where you use one your c-stick as normal smashes and set one of the back paddles to specials so that when you hit special and c-stick at the same time it wavebounces...

You mean pseudo b-sticking. Its harder than manual wavebouncing imo.

Zapjumping and wavebouncing are more useful in B+ due to the lack of autosweetspotting... in case any of you use Lucas+.

Yeah, I like his d-throw and z-air in Brawl+. They kick a**

If I could discuss Lucas in B+ here I would be all over that. He's awesome. The zair has a hurtbox unfortunately. Still trying to fix that. Getting tippered in the snake...

Lucas's d-throw in B+ is delicious win juice.

Yeah, it's a great aerial chase that can lead into a u-air, n-air or my favorite: f-air... f-air is so useful for setting up a tech-chase and can combo into it's self or into a z-air. From there the Z-air sets up for a major tech-chase and can combo into kill moves if a tech is missed... (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not too experienced with +) too bad we aren't reallys supposed to be talking about Brawl+ in here

welcome back Veril

Rocket is right, z-specials is the future of Lucas lol, but for me it's being really hard to change my configuration :S

prOAPC said:

welcome back Veril

Click to expand...

<3

It takes a few days to get used to manual wavebouncing, but its so good to know. I still surprise people by manually wavebouncing with characters other than Lucas. Its amazing how much little spacing tricks like that can f*** with people.