• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

F

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
The downsmash chain we have is rarely used in the matchup. Wolf is either outspacing it with lasers or dancing in our face with bairs (This move is annoyingly fast). It doesn't help that his fsmash is an extremely safe punish if we make a mistake with almost any of our spacing moves, or if he runs up in his shield.

That said, his recovery is garbage and he can be gimped fairly easily by pretty much any move off the edge. The main difficulty is getting him there.

I wouldn't dedicate myself to a ratio, but it's no worse then 6-4 for either character and probably closer to 55-45 in favor of one of them.
 
wWw Dazwa

wWw Dazwa

#BADMAN
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,569
Location
maine
I'd have to call the match-up even, based on the handful of times I've played JJ. However the last time I played against him in tournament, I played pretty generically. Mid-way through the game, he had a decent lead, and I only caught up with camping/luck, and then switched to Pikachu game 2, so it's entirely possible I know little about this matchup >_>. I'll get a hold of him to help out.
 
A

audauro

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
12
I'd have to call this match-up even, based on the handful of times I've played Dazwa. However the last time I played against him in tournament, I played pretty generically. Mid-way through the game, I had a HUGE lead, but he caught up with camping/luck, and then he switched to Pikachu game 2, so it's entirely possible I know little about this matchup >_>.

In the friendlies I've played with Dazwa, we were pretty even as well.


I played Snakeee's zss in a friendly once. It was close, but I barely won.

-JJ Wolf


**Edit**
I lost to PatG's ZSS the last time we played, but it was my first tournament back in a while so I could have played better
 
Nefarious B

Nefarious B

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,002
Location
Frisco you know
Seagull Man said:
55-45 Wolf's favor or even. The Dsmash lock can also be DI'd out of. And the dash attack lock works on everyone so I don't see how useful it is pertaining to specific matchups since it can be done to every character.
Click to expand...
Check out this thread, it has the specifics on the dsmash lock:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4401279

Basically it works very well on him. However, a ZS would have a very hard time landing it if the wolf is avoiding it.

The dash attack lock is comparatively very easy to land. The reason why it works well against Wolf compared to other characters is he has a larger window to start it, and the trajectory that it hits you off the stage at forces a recovery, and Wolf's recovery is easier to edgehog or dsmash than most. I think it's actually one of her most useful tools in this matchup.

We have a CG that's barely worth noting.

This fight feels very even in the air, maybe slight edge to ZS because her uair ***** all of Wolf's options except for ff air dodge, with wolf having an edge on the ground because of his grab and his jab actually finishing, as well as his dsmash being fast, and ZS having a sizable advantage off stage.
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
Both characters have amazing air games. Wolf's Bair makes up for the rest of his somewhat long-lasting aerials, but I'd still say Zammy has better air control because of her Uair. ZSS's Bair could place Wolf at a disadvantage if she was to abuse it, but considering her KO options are limited, it would be best not to abuse it but so much to avoid staling it.
 
Zero

Zero

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
5,825
Location
ワイヤード
No seriously, this isn't the "General Tips vs. Wolf" thread, or the "Post random nybbles and stick a number on" thread. This is the matchup discussion. We're meant to analyse every single aspect of both character's games. What can Wolf do if we FF uair? What can we do to respond to that? Is there a safe option? What are Wolf's weaknesses? How can we exploit it?

I honestly feel like posting a full matchup template for us to use. The one that is currently ignored is a little lacking, but still better than what's going on right now.
 
pulse131

pulse131

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
735
Location
NorCal
hey zss mains. pulse here from the wolf boards. i play against Delphiki alot, best zss in norcal, if im not mistaken. anyways, ill do a write for you guys on what usually works on me and what too look out for later. but nowi need some sleep!
 
zApollo

zApollo

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
839
I like your thinking Zero, the ZSS boards are a bit disorganised with the MU discussions. I don't mean to question the validity of the discussion, but they could be done better.

Anyway, it's tough to punish wolf's crossover b-air with a u-air without psld'ing, but it could be possible. When playing wolf I generally wait and approach while they're in the air, but always keep my distance and try to space side-b safely when he's on the ground for pressure. Often when I played tedeth (awesome wolf player) I find this strategy works. Most of my kills in our matches were from recovery gimps, just get wolf offstage and you've got a guaranteed chance to rack up damage or take a stock.

I'd take wolf to battlefield or lylat on nuetrals, and RC counterpick.
 
Destrawr

Destrawr

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
69
Guess I'll help out, dont know if any of this has been mentioned yet but i'll give my input.

Wolf is a fastfaller, your DSmash can combo him up to 60% or so and then into an easy fsmash ect.
ZSS arials are faster and can gimp well (other than dair) so by attacking a wolf if he is stupid enough to waste his second jump early will score you an easy stock offstage. Wolfs lazer both outprioratises and outranges yours so keep that in mind and try to stun with DSmash instead. Usmash, UpB both works great on wolf trying to jump over. Never attempt to grab Wolf, his smashes are some of the fastest in the game so a missed grab will cost you quite some '%
Shine Wolfs bair and combo it into a Dsmash will once again allow you up to 60%, or, if he is above 60, 2 hits and then a fsmash ect.

Thats pretty much all i know about this MU. Hope any of it helped, if it did.
 
noradseven

noradseven

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
1,558
Location
North Carolina
Destrawr said:
Guess I'll help out, dont know if any of this has been mentioned yet but i'll give my input.

Wolf is a fastfaller, your DSmash can combo him up to 60% or so and then into an easy fsmash ect.
ZSS arials are faster and can gimp well (other than dair) so by attacking a wolf if he is stupid enough to waste his second jump early will score you an easy stock offstage. Wolfs lazer both outprioratises and outranges yours so keep that in mind and try to stun with DSmash instead. Usmash, UpB both works great on wolf trying to jump over. Never attempt to grab Wolf, his smashes are some of the fastest in the game so a missed grab will cost you quite some '%
Shine Wolfs bair and combo it into a Dsmash will once again allow you up to 60%, or, if he is above 60, 2 hits and then a fsmash ect.

Thats pretty much all i know about this MU. Hope any of it helped, if it did.
Click to expand...
Cool too bad you will not hit a grounded d-smash, and if you hit an aireal d-smash, they need to be like below 10% health or **** needs to be horribly degraded. Also neutral B is a bad idea in like 90% of matchups. Same thing with grabbing. Sounds like you have been fighting scrubby ZSS's though.

D-smash is actually quite good in this matchup, because, of the way wolf can hit you, you can use d-smash as a anti air in many places.

I prefer to fight wolfs in the air, with a combination of u-air/b-air, I think we win the air game overall. You gotta be careful and know your options though.
 
F

Frilo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
2
Anyway we can get the finished match-ups into a more clear thread. Most of the links are off when you click on them to read the match-up. For example click on TL and you go to the Olimar section. Not the end of the world but for sure a nuisance. Either a New Thread in which someone just takes all of the info and puts the consensus match up info all on the first page or simply fixing the links would be awesome. Thanks.
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
Side+B is garbage in this match-up. I wouldn't dare to use it while grounded against a {good} Diddy. Unless you're following up offstage, it's more of a hazard than it is helpful. I'd sooner abuse Down smash than side+b, tbh.

Speaking of spamming. <3 Nair & Dtilt in this match-up.
 
FIERCE

FIERCE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
240
Nick, how did you do vs. choice (assuming he used Wolf) at MLG? He tends to give some of the SoCal Zero Suits some troubles with his Wolf (don't get me started on Falco)
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
Okay guys. Serious question about this MU.

What is ZSS suppose to do against a garbage Wolf that only rolls -> downsmash -> blaster camp? Any normal playstyle of Wolf, I have barely any trouble with. Then a roll / downsmash / blaster spammer comes along and I get two stocked.

There's the common knowledge of just shielding when he rolls, predicting and punishing, but ZSS has limited options considering the low frame rate of which Wolf's downsmash, or forward smash even, comes out. It makes it rather difficult to punish him for stupid stuff like that.
 
Zero

Zero

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
5,825
Location
ワイヤード
When you predict a roll, downsmash where he rolls. If you can learn Wolf's dsmash spacing, you can identify situations where he'll either roll behind you to try and dsmash, or roll away to continue blaster spamming. (you're not in the range of Wolf dsmash, but he's in range of you.). Use dsmash's amazing range to your advantage.
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
Attempted it.

Wolf's down smash would still come out quicker than ZSS', so I wasn't finding her down smash too effect. When he got too predictable with the rolls, I started spamming pivot grabs. Oddly, they were working fairly well. I think I should start walking away from where he rolls, turn around, then down smash to space it.

The main problem was the blaster camping. Aerial Side+B got demolished. Doing an aerial, usually got hit or it was avoided with another roll. In all honesty, when people play like that, I'm tempted to resort to planking or stalling to see if they change their play style at all. Smash / Roll abusing is ridiculous, and it's pretty effective against ZSS too.

He did the same thing to my Falcon and I two stocked him. Which is pretty bad. :/
 
NickRiddle

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Darky-Sama said:
Attempted it.

Wolf's down smash would still come out quicker than ZSS', so I wasn't finding her down smash too effect. When he got too predictable with the rolls, I started spamming pivot grabs. Oddly, they were working fairly well. I think I should start walking away from where he rolls, turn around, then down smash to space it.

The main problem was the blaster camping. Aerial Side+B got demolished. Doing an aerial, usually got hit or it was avoided with another roll. In all honesty, when people play like that, I'm tempted to resort to planking or stalling to see if they change their play style at all. Smash / Roll abusing is ridiculous, and it's pretty effective against ZSS too.

He did the same thing to my Falcon and I two stocked him. Which is pretty bad. :/
Click to expand...
Crawl at him. When he rolls, utilt.
Or reverse dtilt.
Rinse/repeat.
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
Wolf's laser is too low to crawl under. That's normally how I play the campy Falcos, though. I was thinking that dtilt could do good against the rolling, but man. If you're off even five frames and you're crouching, his downsmash is going to **** your face twice as hard.

The roll is just awkward in general. Along side Lucario, I think I hate Wolf's roll the most.
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
That's what got me punished last time.

Shield the laser -> Roll -> Downsmash around the same time you're trying to react out of your shield.

Maybe I should just SH Dair OoS. lmfao.
 
NickRiddle

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Darky-Sama said:
That's what got me punished last time.

Shield the laser -> Roll -> Downsmash around the same time you're trying to react out of your shield.

Maybe I should just SH Dair OoS. lmfao.
Click to expand...
The way you're saying it, it seems that the Wolf doesn't grab. Just stay in your shield, then punish after the d-smash hits your shield.
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
The Wolf barely grabbed at all. He was staling his downsmash so much that I was barely being knocked away at 130%. lmao.

It's still ********, though. I wonder if a turn around jab would work.

Does Wolf have anything that comes out quick enough to hit us between jabs?
 
Darky-Sama

Darky-Sama

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
NNID
Darky-Sama
Better than nothing.

It's pretty sad that this is actually giving me trouble. I only played him in one match with ZSS though, the other two I used Falcon. Maybe I was just playing a bit too aggressive that match or something. All I know is, the rolling / down smashing ****ed me up badly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom