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Fastest pivot grab in the game

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
Most of you probably are aware of this, but I wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.

Fox has less cooldown time on his pivot grab than his dash grab. I am of the belief that you should always dash cancel shield grab or pivot grab. In fact throw dash grabbing out of your game completely dcsg is faster anyways.

Pivot grabbing with Fox is nasty. Fthrow is actually good now. Fthrow to another grab is a nice little mix up that you can use every once in a while. In fact just fthrow to another grab then the next time they'll most likely spotdodge and you can land another one. Fthrow can actually be a tech chase.

Dthrow is nice against heavies. I've found that unless they expect it, you can land the pivot grab everytime. After you dthrow them they're doing only a couple things.

1. Worrying about the fair followup. They'll throw out an attack as they're coming back down which will almost always be a horizontal attack, get behind them fast enough and you have yourself another grab.

2. Worrying about the sliding usmash. Anytime someone sees lil Foxy running after them, they always are conscious of the usmash. This means they will airdodge into the ground or land quickly and shield........need I say more. I have a vid against a Falco user that i'm going to try to get Chaos leader to put up with me using the dthrow to another one.

I'm utilizing Foxs' grab game more and more as my game develops and I think his grab game can become lethal. The range on his grab is good, he has the fastest pivot grab in the game, and his speed makes his dash into shield so good for his grab game. The other day I went from one side of FD to the other just mindgaming this person into me getting more grabs. Use his grab game more people, don't always look just to get the basic utilt early percentage combos.....everyone is now expecting this. Us Fox players have to improve our game to add more validity to our player. It seems that because some of you don't know what the hell your doing, myself and others are believed to play a character that only has dair and usmash.......stop doing Fox like that...treat Mr. McCloud with some respect:)



Good players spotdodge to avoid grabs almost always, I believe pivot grabbing is what can take you from decent to good OVERNIGHT. I may seem a little over enthusiastic with this, but i'm just trying to stress how good this is. Lol, just something I wanted to share with you guys.
 

xDD-Master

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
2,992
Location
Berlin
You're totaly right.

I really like it too use pivot grabbing ^^ (And yes it really is easy, with fox easier than with others somehow Òó)

And maybe you can mix your UpSmash/Pivot Grab Mindgame with RJCUS, because of charging and a smaller slide. So you have three different things of attacking out of a dash ^^
 

NeverKnowsBest

Monochrome Like A Panda
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,331
Location
Fort Washington, MD.
I totally agree with you 100%.

My Fox game for the most part revolves around his grab game, shine stalling, and lots of bair application. The day I learned PWG, I crapped myself in excitement. IMO it really changes his meta-game because people get blown away of how cool the PWG looks and it's applications. I remember I like ran across the stage to the edge against my friend and then he air dodged and I ended up pivot grabbing him having him on the outer bank of the stage and I just grab released him and Naired him for the easy stock. He was blown.

Fox grab game = top tier.
 

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
3,506
Fox doesn't have reliable combos out of grab...

HOWEVER, his grab itself is one of the best in the game, his throws do decent damage, his grab attacks are fast, so they refill your smashes quickly, and his throws put his opponent in a position where you can keep applying pressure

Also, with grabs, you force your opponent to stop trying to shield grab your approaches. You force them to adapt to it.

In other words, pro Foxes will grab... a lot.

pivot wave grab (dash attack cancel into turnaround grab) is also incredibly difficult to punish if they spot dodge it.
 

NeverKnowsBest

Monochrome Like A Panda
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,331
Location
Fort Washington, MD.
Fox doesn't have reliable combos out of grab...

HOWEVER, his grab itself is one of the best in the game, his throws do decent damage, his grab attacks are fast, so they refill your smashes quickly, and his throws put his opponent in a position where you can keep applying pressure

Also, with grabs, you force your opponent to stop trying to shield grab your approaches. You force them to adapt to it.

In other words, pro Foxes will grab... a lot.

pivot wave grab (dash attack cancel into turnaround grab) is also incredibly difficult to punish if they spot dodge it.
It may true that Fox doesn't have reliable combos out of the grab but he does have serious MINDGAMEZZZZZ!!!!

Like what I mean by that is Fox, IMO has lots of options after the grab. He can go in for another PWG, a DCSG, fire a couple lasers, or do nothing. Even though they might not be reliable they there is a handful of options to keep your opponent guessing.
 

Toronto Joe

Smash Master
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
4,580
Location
On MSN
all these abreviations are confusing, are you just talking about his reverse sliding grab?
 

Blad01

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
1,476
Location
Paris, France
Well, D-Throw mindgames are sooo funny.

D-Throw > Fair most of the time, then D-Throw to Pivot Grab... it's really fun.

You can also mix up with a Reversed JC USmash (a little bit charged if they wait for pivot grab and spotdodge).

Actually, i've found that F-Throw had too much lag to do anything, but i'm probably wrong.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
Well, D-Throw mindgames are sooo funny.

D-Throw > Fair most of the time, then D-Throw to Pivot Grab... it's really fun.

You can also mix up with a Reversed JC USmash (a little bit charged if they wait for pivot grab and spotdodge).

Actually, i've found that F-Throw had too much lag to do anything, but i'm probably wrong.
Fthrow doesn't have that much lag and with Foxs' speed you can be there in no time. I encourage you to at least try out fthrow sometime. I use it similar to how Pit users use their fthrow.
 

Mr.Fakeman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
382
Marth's one is quite fast, it has some decent grab range too... I like characters with grab range, not the ones with a rope or something. Just a big grab box in general.
 

Face124

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
966
Location
Edinburgh. Pm for a Brawl and I'll get back to you
ironically, I've just been practicing them in training. I, when I first started to use Fox didn't bother about it, but when trying it out earlier this morning the awsome feeling of dashing, pivot grabbing then b-throwing was just to much to ignore xD. I played someone from aib earlier and actually managed to grab > f-throw > pivot grab B-throw :)
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
The bthrow is not even a good throw but it looks the coolest and pivot grabbing into it is just too good:)
 
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