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Secondaries for Bowser

Flayl

Flayl

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This only really applies if you only have Bowser as a main (or if you want to use Bowser as your only secondary?).

Bladewise got top 4 recently with Marth/Bowser and Vex got top 8 at Blue Battle Circuit #4 with G&W/Bowser (does having the character on the left mean you used them more?).

It's interesting because both of these characters do okay against Dedede and are said to do poor against Meta Knight.

Making an assumption here, but Falco would probably make a great secondary for Bowser too. Chaingrab against Dedede and projectile game when it's really needed.

So... comments.
 
MrEh

MrEh

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Anything that stops the Penguin. :)

You can essentially pair Bowser with any character at the top of the tier list and you're bound to do well. Bowser has few good matchups, but he does happen to do well against MK, which is why people are using him I guess.
 
Admiral Pit

Admiral Pit

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Pit and Olimar are good against that penguin. Some say that Peach is good against him too.
 
Flayl

Flayl

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Yeah can you at least try to provide reasoning. This goes for everybody, not just jiggz.
 
Blistering Speed

Blistering Speed

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Which means said DDD can infinite you...

Why pick an even match when you can have one where he has the disadvantage. Falco or Olimar I'd recommend personally.
 
Flayl

Flayl

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As picking mk as a cp is pretty lame, I'd say the best choice against dedede is Falco.
 
The Real Inferno

The Real Inferno

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My "Go-to" guys for good Dedede's are: Olimar, Jigglypuff and Sheik. I've taken some D3's down with Yoshi and Meta as well, but those first three are more preferred for me. For ease of use, I'd say Olimar is the easiest to get the hang of and have as a secondary. I don't recommend Pit for the simple reason he can be CGed and those other three cannot. Falco is the best counter, but requires more practice to really use more effectively than Olimar. If you just want the easy fix I suggest a simple counter that you can pick up fast and don't need to excessively practice with. (on another note, Game and Watch is great for this now than I think about it).
 
Admiral Pit

Admiral Pit

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Sonic is fast and resistant to Dedede's little CG.
I use Pit considering how because Bowser lacks a projectile and reflector, something at long range, Pit has it, and he's also pretty good against Dedede.

That fat penguin can CG poor Pit, though.
Pit, however, can screw D3 up with pressuring tactics and even being campy can help. SH N-airs are great against large chars.
And for Pit, against the penguin, knock him off the stage, and arrow his jumps, and time your B-air against his Up-B recovery.
Basically a Pit is much powerful at pressuring, camping, and gimping, and that's what makes him good against Dedede, and could be a Secondary to Bowser.

If not, you may want either a speedy character (excluding broken Metaknight unless you are desperate) or a character with projectiles (Pit or Falco). Also, since Bowser has a poor recovery, you may want some1 with a good recovery.
Some say Peach is good too.
 
TKD

TKD

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Falco and IC **** D3. Metaknight, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Game & Watch and probably lots of other characters have an advantage on him too. If you don't want him to switch out to another character, you need a matchup that doesn't completely **** D3. I think it won't matter that much if you're good at both your characters though.

And D3 for dittoes sucks. Trust me, I used to play dittoes against D3 players, but only when I got mad and I know not to keep doing it because it's way too gay. If you really want to do it though, which would be gay and unsafe, setting "C" to GRAB allows you 2 chances to keep the infinite going, because grabbing with C doesn't make you shield. So you can press C then Z in order which makes it twice as easy to perform.
 
Wolydarg

Wolydarg

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I started playing bowser very recently after seeing Spam/NL/Vex. I main a ROB.
There's really no logical correlation that I can see besides the fact that I love to play as ganon, as well. There's just something about characters that can kill with almost anything that appeals to ROB mains (who really only have a few kill moves, and they're all rather hard to hit with).

Also, ftilt breaking the whorenado? Yes please.

ROB lives almost as long as bowser, really only has problems recovering vs MK (who doesn't?), has a great camping game, and goes about even with DDD(even with the CG, few characters can contest D3 as he's recovering, ROB can friggin' kill you anytime you're off the map).
Hmm, I just realized my post doesn't really add to the discussion, seeing as I don't really play Bowser competitively at all (yet). I'd love to be able to bust him out sometime though.
 
BadGuy

BadGuy

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I use sonic as a counter for king and his chain grab. Rob, for falco and other troublesome space animals, and ike for game and watch. I only resort to metaknight if I'm really desperate, considering that bowser should win all of your matches to begin with..
 
Flayl

Flayl

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So, breaking this down:

First match in the set you're up against a "counter" character in a neutral stage (although this is a little weird for bowser considering in some matchups battlefield is a blessing and in others a curse).

a) If you win:
Opponent picks stage that either gimps Bowser in some way or favors his counterpick (which assumingly will be the same character which he used in the first match, seeing as it's his main and it's a favorable matchup). You pick Bowser, or if you feel the match was too hard, your secondary. Opponent proceeds to choose his main if you stay with Bowser or his secondary if your secondary counters his main.

Notes: You want a secondary that doesn't get gimped by the same stages that Bowser does, and much more obviously does at least OK in his bad matchups. You also want a secondary that isn't easily countered (anybody with a 80:20 or worse matchup).

b) If you lose:
Depending on how hard you lost, you want a stage that favors Bowser / your secondary or gimps his main. The problem with the latter is that if it gimps his main too hard he'll switch to his secondary, rendering the game that would be favorable back to a question mark. You pick your secondary (assuming you lost hard enough) and your opponent will either stick to his main if the matchup isn't too bad or switch to his secondary.

Notes: Don't rely on just one counterpick stage against certain characters, as they can choose to ban it if they're aware of how bad it is. Try to pick stages that will favor your secondary even if your opponent switches characters.

ab) If you win, then lose:
See b)

ba) If you lose, then win:
See a), but know that the opponent knows your secondary now, he will pick a stage that gimps your secondary / favors his secondary. Consider if it's worth it playing with your secondary again or switching to your main who could possibly do better on that stage.


TLDR:

Bowser's really bad matchups (70:30 or worse): [to be completed]

Bowser's really bad stages: [to be completed]

CP stages: [really depends on the characters involved]
- Don't rely on just 1 stage for each character
- Should favor your secondary regardless (or close enough) of your opponent's character choice

CP characters: [to be completed]
- Should not be gimped by the same stages as Bowser
- Should not have 80:20 or worse matchups (I'm looking at you Fox)
- Should do at least 50:50 in Bowser's really bad matchups
 
Sliq

Sliq

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Just use GW. He is so easy to learn that people who play him and lose should feel ashamed.
 
Flayl

Flayl

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I have to agree, G&W is really easy to play compared to Bowser. If you're good at spacing, you're excellent with G&W.
 
Tamoo

Tamoo

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As a olimar and pit main, trust me, DDD poses very little problem. Especially olimar, i would advise olimar because he is relatively easy to pick up (but very hard to master).
 
Popertop

Popertop

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Yeah if you spam pickmin and then space your grabs when D3 approaches that's pretty much how you win.
Plus Oli has a sexy 0-60% on D3. ;)

I just hate G&W though. He's way too simple. I get bored playing as him. And I ****ing hate how I can just use smash attacks that are ridiculously powerful and still be safe. That's ********.
 
W

WITH

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Try out jiggs...if people don't underestimate your bowser enough, they will think your jiggs is a joke. Jiggs isn't amazing against ddd, but its a fair matchup. Plus, shes really not as bad as people think. Give her a try.
 
Popertop

Popertop

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Who the **** needs a secondary when you play as Bowser?
He's so badass I don't need no one.
I fsmash all day. All the time.
All my matches I'm Fsmashing.
C-stick left, C-stick right.
ALL DAY
 
LinIsKorean

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I think everyone who mains their character ultimately wants to get rid of the need for secondaries. However, most of us aren't at that top-level play yet, so we have to cover our weaknesses.
 
Popertop

Popertop

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LinIsKorean said:
I think everyone who mains their character ultimately wants to get rid of the need for secondaries. However, most of us aren't at that top-level play yet, so we have to cover our weaknesses.
Click to expand...
if that was directed to me, I was just being ridiculous and expressing how ****ing much I love Bowser.
 
I

Inferno_blaze

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I use falco for a secondary. I didn't choose him because he's good or great for a D3 counter, I chose him because he's awesome and was my secondary in melee. Funny how things turned out so well for me :p
 
Palpi

Palpi

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Bowser does make a good counterpick especially against a metaknight player. The match up is 40/60 now, but some say, it could be as close as 50/50.
 
Popertop

Popertop

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WITH said:
Try out jiggs...if people don't underestimate your bowser enough, they will think your jiggs is a joke. Jiggs isn't amazing against ddd, but its a fair matchup. Plus, shes really not as bad as people think. Give her a try.
Click to expand...
I love Jiggs(in case you couldn't tell already), and I can't wait to enter me some low tiers.
 
Demenise

Demenise

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Anyone here think ROB would be okay for a Bowser secondary? He's not too bad against Dedede (possibly 50:50? around that?) and he overall seems similar to Bowser.

...except for the floatiness, recovery, and weaponry.
 
LinIsKorean

LinIsKorean

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Almost anyone top tier is a good secondary for Bowser, his matchups aren't that great to begin with so most of the upper tier characters supplement him nicely.

I'm giving up on secondaries anyways, 100% Bowser yayuhz! (At least until I get known for my Bowser, then I may try to actually win tournaments.) lol
 
Flayl

Flayl

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Demenise said:
Anyone here think ROB would be okay for a Bowser secondary? He's not too bad against Dedede (possibly 50:50? around that?) and he overall seems similar to Bowser.

...except for the floatiness, recovery, and weaponry.
Click to expand...
R.O.B. is my secondary, but it was based on personal choice rather than strategic value. I hear G&W is a bad matchup for R.O.B. though, so I don't know if he's one of the best choices for a secondary.
 
$

$haDy

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Ya ROB is a good secondary for Bowser because of match up and tier position.
 
F

FatJackieChan

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Olimar is easy to play and also can fight Snake (I am new and only play Bowser a bit) so I don't know if Bowser has trouble with Snake or if he owns him. But Olimar can whip Snake and D3 which I think really helps.
 
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