Stutter Step: A Redefinition

This is the most recent post in the AT sticky:

Alopex said:

Vyse, under Stutter Stepping you have a list of characters that can do it. That list is Ganondorf, Sonic, Mario, and Captain Falcon.

This is the topic that most confuses people in Brawl, because we have two techs with the same name.

So, Stutter Stepping is exactly what your Stutter Stepping thing describes. And every character can do it.

The unique thing that Mario, Sonic, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon do is something different and I think we should call it Backstepping.
All it really is is a revery Fsmash. Face right, C-stick left, and the character will use the Fmash but will take a noticeable step towards the left, essentially increasing the range of the Fsmash by automatically moving the character.

Here's a good video that explains everything in detail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRFFZyfeG2o


This is a topic we NEED to address because even the SBR is getting confused about what Stutter Stepping is, as can be seen in their discussion of Mario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203550

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I think he's got a reasonable point, but I want to know what you all think.
I mean, 'backstepping' kinda comes under 'stutter stepping' anyway BUT, we also have a lot of variations of pivoting.

Yes, no?

EDIT:

AT Sticky said:

- Stutter Step (Ganondorf, Sonic, Captain Falcon, Mario)
How to Perform: Initiate an Initial Dash in the direction you want to F-smash, then (1) VERY QUICKLY press the opposite direction you are travelling on the joystick and (2) do an F-smash in the direction you were originally facing.
Effect: This makes the character slide forward slightly before performing his F-smash, thereby extending it. To do a shorter-range version, leave out the initial dash at the beginning. More characters can do this, but the four listed are the ones for which this is most useful.

Tenki also offers an explanation of the Stutter Step.

Tenki said:

Okay, so basically, a "stutter step" is a character mechanic for those 4 characters, where doing a F-smash facing the opposite direction 'jerks' them in that direction before they start their F-smash. So the "basic" input for a true (aka "short") stutterstep is just [turn around]>[f-smash forward].

Every character can 'imitate' this "short stutterstep by tapping forward+pressing A ("manual fsmash"). It interrupts the initial dash with a fsmash.

The input that you have there is a dashdance/pivot cancelled into a F-smash. It can be performed by every character. This can also be used to perform a "reverse" stutterstep by pressing [back]>[forward]+[A] at dashdance speed.

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I'd just change the "Four listed are the ones for which this is most useful" to "Four listed also take an extra step that extends their range significantly."

Gimpy called the Mario/Sonic/Ganondorf/Falcon one a Pivot F-smash. Since that's really all it is. It's not really advanced, but it does seem to be a character-specific trait more than a 'tech'.

That description doesn't exactly capture the fact that theirs force a 'slide' though. This one jerks your character in the direction the smash is facing.

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Then there's the "stutter step" as OS calls it (Which was listed down as a 'universal alternative' to perform it) where you cancel your initial dash with an F-smash:
"Smash input", with a semi-delayed A.
[Tap+Hold Forward]--[A]
Effect: Jerks your character forward before you start charging a smash.

If you take the definition/performance of "stutter step" as the one I just described, then "Reverse stutter step" would make more sense being grouped together with it instead of a pivot F-smash, in name and performance:
"Dashdance input (back first)", but hitting A to cancel the forward dash.
[Tap Back]--([Tap Forward]+[A])
Effect: Jerks your character backwards before charging a smash (facing forward)

Then there's the "extended" stutter step, which works especially well with the 4 'pivot' characters, because they get an extra boost:
"Dashdance input (forward first)" > Forward smash.
[Tap Forward]--([Tap Back]+[C-stick Forward])
Effect: Jerks your character forward before performing a pivot F-smash (facing "forward", the direction you first started running).


Overall changes:
These 3 make the same use of the 'stutter step' input/mechanic as OS describes it, which is cancelling an initial dash with a smash input. So I guess they could all be considered a move. And as for the "character-specific stutter step", I guess it could be listed as a 'bonus' stutterstep-like effect for those characters' pivot F-smashes.

I've always been confused about the different types of stutter steps. I think I'll only attempt to learn them once you guys figure out how to name them, because for now I'm really confused. I think Tenki's post helped though. Sort of. >_>

Yeah, I too have had a hard time with this AT because of lack of coherence. [Tap forward/back]+[C-stick forward] I can do, but I'm having a hard time with the extended stutter stepping which supposedly blows the regular version out of the water. Does that one work with all characters?

BentoBox said:

Yeah, I too have had a hard time with this AT because of lack of coherence. [Tap forward/back]+[C-stick forward] I can do, but I'm having a hard time with the extended stutter stepping which supposedly blows the regular version out of the water. Does that one work with all characters?

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It works with all characters.

The 'extended' version (the last one I posted) makes you step forward, start a dash backwards, but cancel it with a forward smash. It's a really minor boost for most characters.

The main thing that really "made it" as the "extended stutterstep" was that it combined 'cancelling' the step you get from dashing forward and starting a backwards dash with a pivot F-smash, and, like previously mentioned, the 4 "stutterstep" characters got such nice boosts out of it.

I uploaded a quick video just to get things cleared up on what I see is the main thing confusing people about Stutter Stepping and the Reverse Smashing/Backstepping.

Quality is meh. I am accepting donations for my "Get Alopex a Dazzle" fund.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtawDCLN6Yc


EDIT: Bento, maybe it'll help you figure out what you're doing wrong? I try to show the input on the GC controller in the video.

Doesn't Bowser have a Pivot Fsmash?

k, I think I might understand the difference now. I'm guessing that the difference between Mario/Ganon/Falcon/Sonic's is that they don't dash...

Cool, thanks Tenki

You can't see the inputs.. lol.

@Iamthemovie:
Bowser and Charizard take steps forward with their F-smash, but with stutterstep, they move before the F-smash begins.

Sonic's Fsmash covers ridiculous amounts of area when you stutterstep correctly. The equivalent of two Marth Fsmashes when done. The range doesn't increase just the range with which he can do an Fsmash.

Everyone can Pivot Fsmash.

Some slide far like Meta, Squirlte and Yoshi.

Some slide about marios melee wavedash Peach, Ness, and Lucas.

Some do it straight out of their run C Falcon and Olimar.

Try it for yourself.

Bowers is just **** lulz mindgames.

The main thing I was trying to show with my video was that:

Stutter Stepping is canceling the initial dash animation with a Fsmash, causing the character to slide with the smash. It can be done in either direction, as advancing Fsmash or retreating Fsmash.

The Backstep/Reverse Smash has nothing to do with dash animation or dashing at all. All you need to do is C-stick in the opposite direction you are facing with either Mario, Sonic, Ganondorf, or Captain Falcon. There is no slide, the animation just causes the characters to take a large step in the C-stick direction while they perform the Fsmash, resulting in more distanced covered by the character.


They're completely different. The first is an actual AT that requires some timing. The second is just a general character trait of four characters - there's no trick to it, it's just what happens when those four characters Fsmash in the opposite direction they are facing. Watch the video if my text isn't clear enough.


Pivot Smashing is completely different from both those mechanics and I don't know why it's even being brought up.

Stutter Stepping and Reverse Smashing/Backstepping have nothing to do with Pivot Smashes at all. Let's not get more people confused, here.

Alopex said:

The main thing I was trying to show with my video was that:

Stutter Stepping is canceling the initial dash animation with a Fsmash, causing the character to slide with the smash. It can be done in either direction, as advancing Fsmash or retreating Fsmash.

The Backstep/Reverse Smash has nothing to do with dash animation or dashing at all. All you need to do is C-stick in the opposite direction you are facing with either Mario, Sonic, Ganondorf, or Captain Falcon. There is no slide, the animation just causes the characters to take a large step in the C-stick direction while they perform the Fsmash, resulting in more distanced covered by the character.


They're completely different. The first is an actual AT that requires some timing. The second is just a general character trait of four characters - there's no trick to it, it's just what happens when those four characters Fsmash in the opposite direction they are facing. Watch the video if my text isn't clear enough.


Pivot Smashing is completely different from both those mechanics and I don't know why it's even being brought up.

Stutter Stepping and Reverse Smashing/Backstepping have nothing to do with Pivot Smashes at all. Let's not get more people confused, here.

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I agree with you there mate, your video clearly demonstrates the difference between backstep and stutterstep. What I am trying to get across is that every character can do a Backstep Smash, however the four characters listed have just an extended effect and this also goes with stutterstepping smash. It really depends on the character with these two techniques, some may slide or just stay still while other characters might step backwards even more. Just saying, no need to stress it if you can already see the difference.

Mr.Fakeman said:

Just saying, no need to stress it if you can already see the difference.

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Well, that's the main point of this thread. Both techniques were given the same name even though they're different.

People in the SBR were getting confused about what Stutter Stepping was (in the Mario discussion) because these two different techniques were branded with the same name.

So the point here IS to stress their difference so that everyone will agree that they shouldn't be given the same name.
You agree with that, so it further helps the point.

Ganon + C-Stick = <3

Oh the possibilities...