Official G&W Stage Discussion #7: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

This week is Yoshi's Island (Brawl). This stage is characterized by a pivoting platform in the middle and two "ghost" platforms on either side of the stage that sometimes help save you.
Go!

the sides walls of this stage are great for G&W's recovery and horrible for some (I.E. Lucas and Ness). i know there's other characters that this stage gimps but they don't come to mind at the moment, so if anyone could just fill that in. this stage is also good for G&W edge guarding game with Dtilt thanks to the sloped edges. the edges also make good for godly ducking, even though G&W's ducking is already godly. the floating stage portion up above is great for attacking with a Nair or Up B from below. this stage also as decent blast zones for pressuring Fair off the stage for the kill. this is a very good stage for G&W and so far this is all that comes to mind about this stage. but there's plenty more to be said.

I don't like this stage either actually. It's not terrible, but I think that middle platform is really more harmful than helpful. It's too long to really use effectively to limit your opponents into eating a turtle (you know, the whole "they're under the platform and have fewer options, but you're not" gimmick), and likewise it seems to be in just the wrong position to really exploit with nair and dair (it's rare for anyone to actually be on it, and it is seldom convenient to get up there for dair). The point here is that, unlike most other platforms on stages, this one doesn't really help Mr. Game & Watch.

However, it can be in the way. It creates a bit of a "tunnel" insofar as there are fewer movement options in the middle of the stage; it's basically a good corridor on which to spam for some characters. I really hate fighting either of the Links here especially because they can really just lock you down on this stage better than most, and it seems to not be so bad for the ever deadly Snake either. Even on the energy side, I find Pit just unbearably obnoxious here because the stage is short enough that I'm going to eat a running attack or a grab for almost every time I bucket, and other forms of punishment for those arrows are a pain.

The Support Ghost is mostly trivial, but I should point out that Mr. Game & Watch almost never needs it so it's a bit biased against him (it's always a barrel of laughs when Olimar gets off gimp free!).

I really wouldn't say the stage is terrible for Mr. Game & Watch or anything, but I think it's his worst neutral on just about any neutral list. I'm not sure it's really worthy of a stage ban (but it's hardly a crime if you use on on it), but I would be sure to get rid of it in any neutral strike-out. Jog seems to really like it, and I can't contradict the stuff about dtilt or fair though I'm not so sure about the nair and up special through the platform being particularly big tactics here. The walls really don't help Mr. Game & Watch recover; they actually don't hurt anyone and just help characters who can wall jump and wall cling (Ness and Lucas, at a high level, can be assumed to have no trouble aiming Pk Thunder 2 wherever they want... though it's hilarious when Shy Guy blocks Ness's Pk Thunder). It may be that I just have had bad experiences here which is why I value this stage pretty lowly; does any fan care to elaborate on it more?

You and jog talked about different aspects of Yoshi's Island, that's why you two have different viewpoints. Jog choose to focus on G&W's advantages on Yoshi's Island, which you choose to focus on G&W's disadvantages.

I totally agree with you that the middle platform is in just the wrong position for G&W to effectively exploit his attacking through the platform ability. The ghost platforms never seem to helpl me, mainly since G&W can easily get back without the aid of the ghost platforms.

As for neutrals, you should try to fight on BF or SV.

The ceiling isn't exceptionally low and the blastzones aren't really tight, so it doesn't offer any major advantages to G&W in terms of killing your opponent early (hence, its a neutral stage)

This stage is really good for G&W, even though I don't like it very much. The downward sloped edges are good for d-tilt and crouching. The platform is good for several attacks, like u-air, up-b, n-air, and others.

I'm not sure how well you can edgeguard on this stage, just because of my lack of knowledge of it. If I were to guess I would say it would be pretty good for f-air.

streetracr77 said:

This stage is really good for G&W, even though I don't like it very much. The downward sloped edges are good for d-tilt and crouching. The platform is good for several attacks, like u-air, up-b, n-air, and others.

I'm not sure how well you can edgeguard on this stage, just because of my lack of knowledge of it. If I were to guess I would say it would be pretty good for f-air.

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i just said all of that.... >_>

and to A.A.'s comment

my friend mains lucas and always strikes this stage because its his worst.
and i myself used to play lucas a lot and the with a pkt recovery lucas will bounce off the wall rather than glide up it to grab the ledge.

EDIT:

and really what i mean as far as this stage being good for G&W's recovery is, it doesn't have any lips for him to get caught under and the wall doesn't hinder him in anyway.

Lucas doesn't bounce off the wall. He actually aims directly at the ledge and grabs it. He only bounces off the wall if his aim is incorrect. Likewise, lips don't hinder Mr. Game & Watch's recovery because you just don't aim into them. You instead aim to grab the ledge.

i would have to agree with the camping part. olimars, falcos, pits, links, snakes, etc etc can really spam hard on this stage, and its really annoying. you can't full hop turtle approach anyone in the middle cuz of the platform.

also, when on top of the platform, tech chasing doesn't really get a boost just because the platform is too large.

when you're on the right edge, if you press jump and hold towards the stage, you stand up instantly and can do whatever move you want

Amazing Ampharos said:

Lucas doesn't bounce off the wall. He actually aims directly at the ledge and grabs it. He only bounces off the wall if his aim is incorrect. Likewise, lips don't hinder Mr. Game & Watch's recovery because you just don't aim into them. You instead aim to grab the ledge.

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*realizes A.A. is right... (face palm)*

omegablackmage said:

i would have to agree with the camping part. olimars, falcos, pits, links, snakes, etc etc can really spam hard on this stage, and its really annoying. you can't full hop turtle approach anyone in the middle cuz of the platform.

also, when on top of the platform, tech chasing doesn't really get a boost just because the platform is too large.

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Totally agree. This stage takes away all of G&W's usual advantages (nair through platform, techchase on platform, tight blastzones, etc.)

i also agree with the campers on this stage, esp. TL
but i still like this stage for non campers though. but this is pretty much 50/50 from what G&W can and can't do here and also from peoples opinions of this stage. just depends on who you're playing.

How do you guys go about fighting on this stage?

This stage is somewhat annoying to G&W since everything is just too high, just too big, just etc.

K 2 said:

How do you guys go about fighting on this stage?

This stage is somewhat annoying to G&W since everything is just too high, just too big, just etc.

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I go about spamming short hop bairs when I can, and go for kills with either down smash or forward smash. But I mostly try to kill with fair off the stage.

Here's a thought, since you can hit the shy guys, would they work like the balloon on SV and refresh your moves after hitting with an up air?

K 2 said:

How do you guys go about fighting on this stage?

This stage is somewhat annoying to G&W since everything is just too high, just too big, just etc.

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It was Mr. Esc or Neb that mentioned how good a ledgecamping GaW is here, either of you (who was it =[) care to explain?

G&W won't win a match just by ledgecamping, although it is one of G&W's strong points. At one point or another, you will have to get on the stage and fight the old fashion way, with oversized matches and big hammers.

this stage discussion fell flat, its needs some more input or a summary already.

also what about my shy guy theory? (points to last comment on pg. 1)

Shy Guy is the root of all evil!

Anyway, he probably does refresh stale moves when you beat up on him. I wouldn't get too excited about it though; it's just a handy extra like the balloon on smashville.

Amazing Ampharos said:

Shy Guy is the root of all evil!

Anyway, he probably does refresh stale moves when you beat up on him. I wouldn't get too excited about it though; it's just a handy extra like the balloon on smashville.

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lol i wasn't, it was just a perk to do after a kill instead of standing around.

jog said:

this stage discussion fell flat, its needs some more input or a summary already.

also what about my shy guy theory? (points to last comment on pg. 1)

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Yeah...Stage Discussions for neutrals tend to be very boring, since the stage layout is generally the same (one main platform + 1-3 dropthrough platforms). In all honesty, there really isn't much to discuss about neutrals, except size and possibly platform exploitage.

Would you guys recommend ledgecamping and fair'ing anyone that comes over, or you would suggest to approach the opponent ... ?

when is ledgecamping ever not the best idea?

K 2 said:

Yeah...Stage Discussions for neutrals tend to be very boring, since the stage layout is generally the same (one main platform + 1-3 dropthrough platforms). In all honesty, there really isn't much to discuss about neutrals, except size and possibly platform exploitage.

Would you guys recommend ledgecamping and fair'ing anyone that comes over, or you would suggest to approach the opponent ... ?

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approach, its how i play anyways.

_Phloat_ said:

It was Mr. Esc or Neb that mentioned how good a ledgecamping GaW is here, either of you (who was it =[) care to explain?

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on the ledge, tap down and jump at the same time, then nair. theres this glitchy slow falling nair animation. you can do it while you have invincibility on the ledge

if you're talking about just the falling-ish nair from the edge, you don't need to tap down; just press jump (for a standard ledge jump) and press a

but the jump and towards stage standup thing is pretty cool and can get you lots of free grabs

Okay, sorry for the late announcement.

Inui made a discovery on this stage.

Sesshomaru010101 (11:58:31 PM): on the right side if u hit jump while on the ledge u just fall down
Sesshomaru010101 (11:58:42 PM): but if u hit jump and hold left ull walk up with no animation

Another thing pointed out is that you can do anything out of this quick getup.

Basically it's like a hax ledgehop waveland.

pockyD said:

when you're on the right edge, if you press jump and hold towards the stage, you stand up instantly and can do whatever move you want

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A2ZOMG said:

Okay, sorry for the late announcement.

Inui made a discovery on this stage.

Sesshomaru010101 (11:58:31 PM): on the right side if u hit jump while on the ledge u just fall down
Sesshomaru010101 (11:58:42 PM): but if u hit jump and hold left ull walk up with no animation

Another thing pointed out is that you can do anything out of this quick getup.

Basically it's like a hax ledgehop waveland.

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known for a long time -_-

I'll add that later into the summary. Does it not work on the left side?

sorry if any of this has been said, kinda in a rush.

shyguys cause your smash to slow down, mind game hit boxes.

and idk if many know about this, but if G&W is on the far ledge of yoshi's island on the right, and an iten (maybe just diddys banana, idk) is right before the little slope, G&W pick up animation gets canceled, and you don't pick it up.

Its wierd, check it out.