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Recovery Tips with Snake

Fizzi

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
802
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
Alright, to start I'd like to say that some of you will probably already know all the stuff I'm about to show. The videos/explanations are for people that don't. I also did not discover this stuff, I am just explaining and displaying what they are. Also I made this thread pretty noob friendly, so some things might seem over explained to you.

Here is a video by Infzy that pretty much sums up what I'm gonna talk about below - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njcYW0rFmUg . I am also going to show you videos displaying the effects that these ideas have with Snake.

Vertical Recovery:
When someone attempts to kill you vertically, do not just allow it to happen. There are things you can do to help you survive longer. The first is DI, but that's for a whole other topic. Vertically, the best way to survive is to use your aerial that comes out the fastest (I am not 100% sure about this, but it definitely seems to be the case). Here is a general look at how this affects Snake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UpNyKahqxQ

I showed how many platforms Snake goes up in the video. This is obviously not very scientific and not very exact, I did it like this for a few reasons. Firstly, I did not have that much time. Secondly, there are discrepancies that can occur. In order to get the best result, the aerial must be used at the soonest possible time. Our best way to replicate this is to spam the c-stick, and so the result is limited by how fast my fingers can move and/or how lucky I get. Thirdly, you can get a pretty good look at exactly how high snake goes by just looking.

Dair:
To Perform - Just spam down on the c-stick, keep control stick anywhere but down.
Effect - This is personally my favorite one to use. This is because it seems easier to spam downC quickly than to press two buttons.

Fair/Uair:
To Perform - Hold DOWN on the control stick and spam forward/up on the c-stick, respectively.
Effect - Ehh... you can see for yourself in the video. Seems about as effective as Dair.

Bair:
Effect - Seems worse than the others, could be because of the way he moves his body though. I was wondering what you guys thought about this?

Air Dodge:
Effect - I did not show air dodge in the video. Air dodge does nothing, nothing at all. Don't use it to recover vertically.

Horizontal Recovery:
Alright, the idea here is that you have to use the aerial that starts and finishes the fastest, followed by a jump to slow your momentum. I also heard that fast falling and then jumping slows your momentum more? I tested this and could not produce the desired results, anyone have videos or anything? For now I'll just leave it at jumping.

The problem Snake has here... is that it's hard to tell if his aerials are actually faster than his air dodge. To test it what I did was short hop of a ledge, do an aerial/air dodge, and jump back on the stage. I took note of how low snake fell before the second jump was executed. The idea was that, the lower snake went, the worse the action. What I got from this test was that air dodge was the fastest. The video also seems to prove that, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9afW_QTeO04

High Percentage C4 Recovery:
This is just a simple little trick I wanted to share. I'm sure some people have thought of this already (I know Ally had thought of it before I mentioned it to him, go figure). This is EXTREMELY situational, and will very rarely happen. I have done it once in a tournament match before, the only time ever doing it in a real match (friendlies included). Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqdTFCzYDJY

To Perform: Do a normal C4 recovery. When you detonate the C4, DI towards the stage aiming to hit it. Tech the stage. Cypher when you want, waiting to Cypher will probably increase your chances of making it on the actual stage and not the ledge.


Fun fact: I lived to 273% against Gk's G&W on lylat in a pool match at Only in Niagara II :).

Songs in the videos are pretty random btw.
 

StoleUrCar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
211
Some of you will probably already know all the stuff I'm about to show.
Like...virtually any decent player that's not even necessarily a Snake player? I'm pretty sure it's just general tactical information that using aerials when launched will slow your momentum, and it does not have to be Snake.

Fun Fact.....C4 stage tech is like half a year old....

*sick and tired of the recent trend of posting unnecessary threads highlighting old knowledge, ugh.*

Edit:

Also, it would have been more useful (and recent in terms of developing metagame) to mention that Snake's recovery has a huge weakness, (aside from the cypher grab gimp.) The fact that it does not auto-sweetspot makes Snake very vulnerable to grabs upon landing. Even if you attempt an aerial, say a quick one like bair, it's often telegraphed and predicted and the opponent will simply shield grab you.

The easiest, though not foolproof, solution to this is recovering as far and high up as possible, taking advantage of your second jump momentum into up+b. At least in this way you have more air time before you and land can make full use of your DI to avoid being near the edge if regrabbed.
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
802
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
I fail to see how that would have been useful. Everyone knows recovering high is always the best option with snake. It's a common misconception that aerial's slow your momentum, they do not. The jump slows your momentum not the aerial itself, the aerial just lets you jump sooner.

The idea behind this thread for people that already knew that aerials helped in recovery was to "showcase" them to show which are more effective. All recoveries are character specific and that is why I posted this in the snake boards and why it is snake specific. The biggest thing someone like you could take away from this thread is that for Snake, air dodging > aerials which I do not believe is common knowledge. If you knew that, good for you, as for the others, I hope this thread helps them.
 

Suo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
165
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
*Pessimism and Negativity*
Actually using aerials to recover is a recent discovery. As Fizzi said, Snake was the only character where it was unclear whether he should airdodge or aerial.

This thread pretty much single handedly clears up that question.

To condemn research like this, especially when it is relevent and useful, is just stupid.

The Snake boards have been dead and dieing for far too long, I for one applaud Fizzi's effort, and hope to contribute more as well.
 

TEECO

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
743
Location
ORLANDO FL
Nice. That custom stage with the platforms was a good idea to show how it worked lol.
 

MachinegunNorm

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,319
oops i meant horizontally. sorry about that.
vertically it doesn't matter, as long as you fast fall while doing an aerial.

edit: and kirk just told me he didn't didn't test if airdodge is faster, just that bair IS snake's fastest aerial.
 

Panix

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
583
Location
NJ, Barnegat
oops i meant horizontally. sorry about that.
vertically it doesn't matter, as long as you fast fall while doing an aerial.

edit: and kirk just told me he didn't didn't test if airdodge is faster, just that bair IS snake's fastest aerial.
Persionally I think Uair is the best. I see alot of Japan matches and because it ends quickly and comes out pretty fast it makes you hard to punish,

I do hate spamming two directions though. lol
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
802
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
Firstly, this thread was posted a while ago. Secondly, I came to the conclusion that air dodge was the best, so if he didn't test air dodge then uhhh... How are his tests conclusive?
 

MachinegunNorm

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,319
alright sweet.. well i guess i'll have to get in the habit of airdodging for horizontal.
thanks for sharing. :)

edit: yeah.. i didn't notice teeco necro bumped but oh well at least now i know air dodging is best for horizontal.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
Use Bair when hit vertically. You can fastfall + regain control of Snake quicker. (My bad for teaching Dair, although slightly worse, it is 'easier')

Airdodge if you are hit horizantally (no need to fastfall).

If hit vertically, assess if you'd die from the top or the side quickly. Bair seems to make me die earlier off the sides (due to his change in shape. lol) so I airdodge. If you'd die from the top, Bair.
 
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