Matchup Chart/Discussion

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

ps: I just started it so everything is white...lol

Dark Red = Extremely difficult (80-20 in opponents favor or worse)
Red = Difficult (70-30, 75-25 < opponents favor)
Light Red = Hard (60-40, 65-35 < opponents favor)
Pale Yellow = Neutral (45-55 our favor, 50-50, 55-45)
Light Green = Easier (60-40 our favor, 65-35)
Green = Easy(70-30, 75-25 < our favor)
Dark Green = Easiest? lol... (80-20 our favor or better)

~ In Progress ~

I will also check the other boards to find their verdict and there color will have a * next to the matchup to show it did not come from our boards. It will also be below our boards general verdict.

Think of these people are the Snake SBroomers for this chart:
JesiahTEG
UltimateRazer

--This does not mean they will be the only people I listen to, nor is this 'list' completed--

S and A (Statement and Answer)
This is stupid
I respect your opinion, and here is mine: You are stupid

This doesn't help
But this does: "How To Win Every Matchup: Camp with 'nades and space with ftilt"

What is up with the Pikachu one? 47:53? WTF?
Blame them not me... I don't know either :o

Matchup Discussions

Meta Knight (45/55)

Quotes of player opinions:

Ran Iji said:
70/30 in MK's favor once Snake's feet leave the ground vs a competitive level Meta Knight.

40/60 in Snake's favor vs ground based MKs that rely on tornado.

Shady Penguin said:
45-55 MK's favor in my opinion.

Snake does have an advantage when grounded, but MK's **** of him in the air is extreme (yes, I know how to DI).

Snake is definitely one of MK's worst match-ups though.

Taeran said:
MKs are fun to mess with 'cause thet're really (most of the time) predictable.

But really, It's a pretty even matchup because they have advatages to each other in air/ground but I think MK has a slight advantage, so 45-55 MK's favor.

Lawlmahbawls said:
Camp with nades and f-tilt.

...

Seriously.

A MK will usually start a match with a quick dashgrab to d-throw into Fair to start edgeguarding. (based on my experience, like 90% of MKs do such)

So you can either drop a nade and get grabbed or just grab him first.

IMO, it's 55-45 Snakes favor. Grenades stop basically EVERY approach MK has, their best approach will then be a quick dash grab/attack, easy f-tilt.

The hardest part of this matchup is obviously not getting juggled and gimped. Alternating between airdodging, nairing and b-reversal c4/nades are your best options for getting back on stage without getting crushed by Shuttle Loop and nado.

So, as a wrap up. Staying on the ground is keykeykey. MK has very limited options to approach if you keep a constant wall of grenades going at him. If he gets you into the air, dodge like a devil so you can get back down. Otherwise this is a simple matchup, just gotta get the MK to 100 and u-tilt will do the rest.

8AngeL8 said:
55/45 MK's favor. The thing about this matchup is, no matter how far behind Snake gets, he's not that far behind. Seriously, it takes about 5 moves to take MK from 0 to an Uptilty death.

If Snake plays a very explosive heavy game and bottlenecks MK into an Ftilt or jab combo a couple of times, he can beat him on stage. The problem shows up when Snake is off stage. Basically, that stock is gone when it happens. It's the same for Olimar, though, and he's still a great character. Just don't get pushed off until you've killed MK

JesiahTEG · Nov 18, 2008

If you do in fact plan on doing this, I'd like to be a major part in the project, since I've been to/go to big tournaments, and consistently place well in my area and know a ton about Snake.

Jar'd · Nov 18, 2008

This sounds like a really cool idea.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

@Jesiah

Your input would be great

and if you have any verdicts with another boards decision, let me know how its different and why, I'll compare the boards reasons with yours and question a few other people I deem as 'knowledgeable' to see if they agree with you or the other boards.

(Since this doesn't -have- to be exact, but I would love for it to be as close to realistic as possible

(not putting Dark Green on MK people, sorry)

@ Jar'd

Thanks

misterpimp5757 · Nov 18, 2008

i dont get what u r saying...

Suo · Nov 18, 2008

Good idea, I definitely support this.

Any activity that will spur discussion and thought within the Snake community is good right now.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

misterpimp5757 said:
i dont get what u r saying...

Not only is your typing bad, you can't read, and apparently you cannot even see the link I provided saying 'Similiar to this but for Snake and a few differences'

I* don't* get what you* are* saying.

Edit:

That makes 3 + me, good enough

I'll work on the template and getting the renders for each character. Then I'll go and gather other boards' results since ours is rated in * for some stupid reason.

Royale · Nov 18, 2008

Yes please do that. If you can create a template in photo shop similar to how the person you referanced did, it'll be easier for you to adjust any match stuff in the future.

But for the loving sake, please do it. This idea is simple and very easy to read. If you can it would also be beneficial if you can put a hyper link into each and every single picture linking to the information about the match.

But if its cool with the guy who made the original template, ask him if you can use it.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

I could create a multi-picture sheet or all as one, I would not create an image map with it because its to much of a pain...

However below the image I could have (ABC Order) all the links to the threads with information (as follows)

1. Our Discussion
2. Their Discussion

______________________

Also, I'm using a template similiar but better

I have Photoshop experience and I'm a Web Designer.

8AngeL8 · Nov 18, 2008

I'd love to have this for the Snake boards, and I'll help out for sure.

Lol, I love how "Camp with 'nades and space with Ftilt" has become a fad on this board.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

It's the biggest fad ever, and I will never let it die until we think of something that is more honest.

Also I love how you are basically my only friend on this forum xD......

Also:

Working on an emote for dA, then I'll get started on this project.

(supersecretninjaglompplz for dA

rofl)

On another note:

I have to many 'large' projects going :o

(Guide to predictability, this, snake video thread, ness/link compendiums of important threads....)

Royale · Nov 18, 2008

Havokk said:
I could create a multi-picture sheet or all as one, I would not create an image map with it because its to much of a pain...

However below the image I could have (ABC Order) all the links to the threads with information (as follows)

1. Our Discussion
2. Their Discussion

______________________

Also, I'm using a template similiar but better I have Photoshop experience and I'm a Web Designer.

Go for it. The more information any board can give us in terms of match ups is always welcomed.

If you can go for a multi picture, it'll be alot of work putting it on to these forums. With well, the number of urls/img you'll have to punch in. But it'll be well worth the effort.

I have a Bachelors in Fine arts, so if you need any suggestions/help you can throw me a PM/MSN/AIM.

8AngeL8 · Nov 18, 2008

In other news, the fad is spreading. I just saw someone use it in Brawl General Discussion. EPIC!!!

Haha, of course we're friends after that epic two pages of off topic that one night.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

Royale said:
Go for it. The more information any board can give us in terms of match ups is always welcomed.

If you can go for a multi picture, it'll be alot of work putting it on to these forums. With well, the number of urls/img you'll have to punch in. But it'll be well worth the effort.

I have a Bachelors in Fine arts, so if you need any suggestions/help you can throw me a PM/MSN/AIM.

I can always slice it up when I'm finished, then have it link to their discussion on it until we have a discussion, then have the other (un-linked thread) below in ABC order.

Start throwing out ideas

Also:

MSN is tsukasa001@hotmaill.com (feel free to message me)

@Angel

LINK MEH!!!!!!!!!!!!

napZzz · Nov 18, 2008

havokks quite the fresh of breath air to these boards...I mean yes. I like this idea.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2008

Like I stated in my video thread

just trying to advanced and help every possible board (besides MK) that I can.

Although I am choosing favorites xD (Snake, Link, and Ness.... :3)

UltimateRazer · Nov 18, 2008

I approve of this idea. I would also like to put some input on some characters since I have been to the past 6 Houston Tourneys which 2 were state wide =]

Shadow_of_Link · Nov 18, 2008

I approve of this topic.

Unfortunately, I won't be much help seeing as I'm not very knowledgeable on matchups. But I look forward to the completed chart

(especially since the matchup thread has been on week w/e for like 2 weeks xD)

SuSa · Nov 19, 2008

*bump*

Preview with base image, what it will look like (sort of, it will look better), and time to start work.

JesiahTEG · Nov 19, 2008

We got the first matchup wrong already.

SuSa · Nov 19, 2008

If you're talking about MK, thats from the MK boards.

45/55 MK's favor- says the MK Boards.

UltimateRazer · Nov 19, 2008

I love the look of this chart. GW match up is on target. The D3 is either correct or should be a red. I'm not 100% sure of my views on the mk matchup yet but after OH SNAP in Oklahoma, I will give you my verdict.

SuSa · Nov 19, 2008

The opponents go in order of Tier List, obviously leaving out Snake.

The colors are -somewhat- close to the text, but not exactly. Hence I need to get the 'key' up.

My verdict on MK is the same as them. You can KO him pretty well if you save that utilt and possibly choose a stage with a lower ceiling then FD or Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

He has to be very cautious about your Grenades and explosives, because he needs to keep that % low.

However he does rack up damage pretty quickly, nothing you can really do about his semi-dthrow-CG, and getting gimped by him is easy as pie so being offstage is bad.

But I recently beat a good MK with my Snake. I -might- learn towards 60-40 MK's Favor.

UltimateRazer · Nov 19, 2008

JesiahTEG said:
We got the first matchup wrong already.

Jesiah im interesting hearing your point of view on the MK match up.

Don't make it too long but in a nutshell...like how to beat them..keep it simple

OH SNAP will not MK banned so this really will differ my opinion on him.

Suo · Nov 19, 2008

I really like the layout so far, great job.

I don't have enough practical experience against really good Metaknights yet, so I can't really comment on that matchup. The others look good though.

8AngeL8 · Nov 19, 2008

Havokk said:
@Angel

LINK MEH!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5870967#post5870967

Close to the top, fourth or fifth post, I think.

The chart looks like it's coming along great.

I think 55/45 for Snake/MK is spot on. If you get knocked off, the stock is over, but Snake can hold his own on stage and kills at ridiculously low percents.

abit_rusty · Nov 19, 2008

Constructive thread...WOAMG!

This should help clear up the individual character ratios for the Match-up thread...which I apologize for not being able to update..... :/...best of luck Havokk.

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 19, 2008

The match-up's are wron except for D3.

MK is 60:40 in Snakes favour and G&W is rather 65:35 or 70:30 Snakes favour

SuSa · Nov 19, 2008

@gheb

Considering our boards rate in * not 50:50 (etc) I took the opponents character board matchup threads, and used those numbers.

Also, MK is 50/50 at best...

Until our boards come up with 50/50 (etc.) rather then **** the xx:xx* = enemy boards and ABOVE THAT (hence the empty space) will go our boards 'unofficially official' rank of the match.

Thats why I left the empty space.

So it shows

Enemy - Color (for easier difficulty seeing) - Our Rating - Their rating

Shady Penguin · Nov 19, 2008

I personally see the match-up as 45-55 MK or 50-50. I believe most Snake mainers would agree (just a guess).

As for D3, I see it as 60-40 D3 or 65-35 D3 at worst (he is arguably Snake's worst match-up).

I think G&W is fine at 60-40 Snake. Next on the tier list would be..... Falco? I'd say 50-50 or 55-45 Falco.

The R.O.B. and Marth match-ups already seem to be widely agreed on (correct me if I'm wrong).

R.O.B.: 60-40 R.O.B.

Marth: 55-45 Snake

SuSa · Nov 19, 2008

I'm just going around to the other boards doing my own research

lol, thanks for trying to help however.

I'll update 3-20 characters a day depending how busy I am. xD

SuSa · Nov 19, 2008

Updated - White is now Pale Yellow, White is an unfinished spot. Black is an undecided spot (neither board has the rating)

TKD · Nov 20, 2008

Wow, you're awesome. Finally an accurate matchup chart. Information FTW.

**bookmarked**

Shadow_of_Link · Nov 20, 2008

TKD said:
Wow, you're awesome. Finally an accurate matchup chart. Information FTW.

**bookmarked**

QFT. *bookmarked and saved as homepage*

SuSa · Nov 21, 2008

Thanks, both of you

lol...

OP Updated (or should I say image?)

Shady Penguin · Nov 24, 2008

I think DK and Falco may very well have slight advantages over Snake (I hear a lot about Falco).

50-50 isn't a bad rating, but perhaps we should reconsider 45-55 their favors.

SuSa · Nov 24, 2008

those ratings are their ratings.... none of our ratings are done yet >.>

8AngeL8 · Nov 24, 2008

After playing a LOT of DK vs Snake matches, I think 50:50 is the worst it should get. DK's huge advantage is how easily he can grab, throw you off and then gimp. Snake rules the stage, though, and has ways of dealing with DK's range. If Snake saves his uptilt, he can kill DK at <130 which is unheard of on DK. It's not that hard for Snake to rack up 100+ damage on DK if he camps, and DK is such a big target that landing the Utilt isn't particularly hard.

Besides, the gimping thing isn't that bad. Smart timing of the Up-B, the C4 momentum switch, and use of the C4/grenade recovery can and will save you from being screwed off stage.

IMO: 55:45 Snake's favor.

JesiahTEG · Nov 24, 2008

wow WTF at how bad this is. Where are you getting these? Dude, I'm asking you to stop this project until I get a bunch of knowledgeable players to come in and help. So many of these are wrong.

Black_Heretic · Nov 25, 2008

JesiahTEG said:
wow WTF at how bad this is. Where are you getting these? Dude, I'm asking you to stop this project until I get a bunch of knowledgeable players to come in and help. So many of these are wrong.

He said he's getting them from other character boards, so WTF at them

I'm sure our matchup discussions will yield more accurate numbers

Matchup Chart/Discussion

Banned via Administration

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Banned via Administration

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Banned via Administration

Smash Journeyman

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

Banned via Administration

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Banned via Administration

Smash Hero

Banned via Administration

Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

Banned via Administration

Smash Master

Banned via Administration

Smash Champion

Banned via Administration

Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Life is just a party

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

Banned via Administration

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Information

Network