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A Guide to Advanced Movement with Marth *Also Introducing Glide Walking and ZAD*

Remzi

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One very important factor in any Super Smash Bros game is movement. We all know the basics; dashing, walking, jumping, rolling, etc. But that's not what you came here to read about, what I'm going to be discussing here are some of the more advanced movement tactics. Many of them which you probably already know and use. I will rate each technique in terms of usefulness out of 10.

Red = 1-4- (Almost) Useless
Yellow = 5-7- Occasionally Useful
Green = 8-10- Must Know


Without further ado:

Walk to Shield:


It sounds simple and it is; walk to shield is most effectively used as a way to get through projectile walls, and it works exceptionally. Just walk towards your opponent, and shield when a projectile comes at you. This works better for Marth than most characters, because of his rather high walking speed. It works best against characters such as Wolf and Toon Link. Perfect Shielding makes this approach option much more effective, as you can dash or continue to walk afterward without suffering any shield stun. So make sure to master perfect shielding projectiles.

Usefulness: 9/10


Dash to Shield:


Dash to shield is a great way to close a large gap quickly, while effectively setting up your zoning and keeping yourself out of any danger. Shielding out of a dash cancels your momentum, and is completely safe so long as you stop yourself before entering your opponents grab range. If your opponent attempts to attack you, they will strike shield, and you can either shield grab them or hit them with a dolphin slash OoS. However they will probably just assume a defensive position when they see you coming, in which case you can proceed to setup your zoning.

Usefulness: 8/10


Fox Trotting:

Fox trotting just means constantly repeating your dash animation as a way of moving. It isn't very useful for Marth. One potential use for it is a Fox Trot > Stutter Step Fsmash, however, this is generally unsafe, as Fsmash has a great amount of ending lag. There is also a high chance that you will trip.

Usefulness: 3/10


Dash Dancing:

Dash dancing is simply dashing back and forth in place. It is used for some mindgames and it is possible to fsmash directly out of a dash dance, however there really isn't much you can do with it in Brawl. There is also a very high chance that you will trip.

Usefulness: 4/10


D-tilt Crawling:

As you probably know, using D-tilt's IASA frames to preform consecutive d-tilts allows you to slowly advanced while remaining low to the ground. This is useful against projectiles such as Pit's Arrows. Against most projectiles, you'll probably want to just Walk to shield. And since a tipped D-tilt delivers some shield pushback, D-tilt crawling can be used to move you forward and poke at a shield a second time.

Usefulness: 6/10


Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR):

A RAR is performed by dashing, turning, and jumping while still in the turn-around animation. What this allows you to do is jump forward while facing backwards and not lose any momentum. With Marth, this is extremely useful to setup for an off-stage assault. Bair is great for gimping, so a RAR > Bair is a great way of going after an opponent who is recovering. You can also use a RAR to set up for a Dair spike, since the Dair's tip hitbox is much larger behind Marth.

Usefulness: 7/10

Craq Walking:


Craq Walking is, while airborne, tilting the analog backwards (behindmarth) upon landing in order to slide across the ground. This works exceptionally well coming off of a retreating nair. More on this later.

Usefulness: 6.5/10




And now, I present to you two brand new movement techniques; at least I don't think they've ever been formally introduced. The following are two techniques I discovered back in August. I sent Emblem Lord a PM about them, and he recommended that I make a topic about them. I decided that I would first learn more about them; though I've never actually found the time. So I decided I may as well present them to the rest of the Marth community to allow some others to work with them, and see if either of them can come in handy. Here they are:

Glide Walking:


Glide walking consists of two phases, those are ground and air. Glide walking on ground, means that you will be slowly tilting the analog forward and backwards as you move towards the enemy in order to constantly pivot while still technically being in a walk. With Marth, and a few other characters, doing this results in a slight momentum boost. With other characters, it has more of a rough feel, whereas with Marth each pivot is a completely smooth transition. Marth also gains the largest speed boost from what I can tell. Now, combine this with the air phase, which consists of constant Craq Walk slides and you have what I like to call Glide Walking. I gave it this name beause of how smooth the movement is, it feels like Marth is gliding. Now remember that while glide walking, every one of Marths options are open. What this allows for you to do is:


-Boost, Change, and Restore Momentum
-Approach in a new way, that your opponent will have a hard time reading and is generally safe if used right
-Mindgame your opponent, the constant change in direction will keep them guessing as any attack in your arsenal is possible
-Retreat, either with nairs, or just empty backwards jumps
-Move without losing any options

Usefulness: ?/10


Zero Accelleration Dash (ZAD):

A Zero Accelleration Dash is performed by walking full speed in one direction, then dashing in the opposite direction. What does this do? You enter a dash animation in the opposite direction, but you don't move anywhere. The dash can also be canceled into pretty much anything. So far, I've found one quite reliable way to use this. Walk towards your opponent (must be full speed), then dash in the opposite direction once you get near them. In many instances they will drop their shield, in which case you can pull out a reverse DB. You can ZAD directly out of a glide walk.

Usefulness: ?/10


Now, I'm sure those last two are a bit confusing unless you see them (especially glide walking), however I don't have a way of getting any videos up atm. So if anyone can upload some replays for me, I'd really appreciate it. If so, just PM me or post here. I put "?" for their usefulness because I haven't used them nearly enough to know how effective they can be.

I'd like to ask you all to try and work with these techniques to see if you can figure out uses for them.

That's all, I hope you learned something about Movement Tactics with Marth, whether it be the old stuff, or the new. Thanks for reading, and feel free to comment or ask questions.
 

CELTiiC

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Fox Trotting:

Fox trotting just means constantly repeating your dash animation as a way of moving. It isn't very useful for Math. One potential use for it is a Fox Trot > Stutter Step Fsmash, however, this is generally unsafe, as Fsmash has a great amount of ending lag. There is also a high chance that you will trip.

Usefulness: 3/10
It shouldn't be useful for Math. Lol, just a little typo there. Nice guide man, I learned a couple of things..
 

Remzi

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It shouldn't be useful for Math. Lol, just a little typo there. Nice guide man, I learned a couple of things..
Glad you liked the guide, though I'm not seeing the typo, can you clarify please?
 

IDK

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videovideovideo? i doubt that there was a need for a summary on the old ones, but its nice to see someone other than EL, s2nd, (the MBR) make one of these threads. i am sort of doubting your new techniques, until you have a video.
 

Megavitamins

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Dash dance is good for marth, just not the stupid one where u move like half an inch... I do it with foxtrot, start a new dash in same direction as foxtrot, then cancel that dash with another dash in opp. direction. Its great for baiting spot dodges, and getting grabs off. Also good to avoid your enemys OOS options, then punish. I find foxtrot -> dancing blade or DS to work well.
 

Remzi

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You put Math instead of Marth
P.S. 100th Post
Lol I see, I'll fix that. Thanks.
And congrats.

IDK said:
videovideovideo? i doubt that there was a need for a summary on the old ones, but its nice to see someone other than EL, s2nd, (the MBR) make one of these threads. i am sort of doubting your new techniques, until you have a video.
Sorry, as I said I currently have no means of showing a video for the new techniques. It's understandable that you would doubt them, I myself have a lot of doubts that either would be very useful.


3xSwords: That is similar to the ground phase of Glide Walking, however the animation with Marth is MUCH smoother, and he didn't appear to show any real use of it. Also, it looks different when combined with Craq Walking. You'll see when I am able to get a vid up.

Darxmarth23: Thanks ^_^


Junk: Thanks, it's an honor to hear that from such a well known Marth player

Minty: Hmm... I'll look into that and might change the rating accordingly.
 

Remzi

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Nah he's just saying that he feels I deserve it, only Pierce can actually admit someone in I think. Thanks though ^_^
 

feardragon64

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Nice bengals. Side note, link actually gets the greatest use for craq/glide walking(I prefer the term tard trotting). He can actually go faster than his running speed with it.
One more side note on that topic:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174447

Otherwise pretty good. If you want you could always add a section rolling....just to say usefulness is like 2 >>
 

Remzi

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I see, I did notice that Links ground craq walk was pretty sick, though his ground glide walk only really takes him far if he uses an attack out of it. Regardless, this isn't exactly the same as craq walking or crazy walking. Though I'm not exactly sure what Tard Trotting is.... lol.

Anyways, thanks :)
 

icedragon-

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This guide is very promising and see much potential for it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
 

Remzi

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Guide was so good I posted it on IGN. Should get a fair amount of readers because of that. I also posted steels recent guide and Junk's link to everything.
Thanks, always nice to spread something around and let more people see it :)

Thanks for all the compliments from everyone as well.
 

OmegaXF

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Fox Trotting:

Fox trotting just means constantly repeating your dash animation as a way of moving. It isn't very useful for Marth. One potential use for it is a Fox Trot > Stutter Step Fsmash, however, this is generally unsafe, as Fsmash has a great amount of ending lag. There is also a high chance that you will trip.

Usefulness: 3/10


Dash Dancing:

Dash dancing is simply dashing back and forth in place. It is used for some mindgames and it is possible to fsmash directly out of a dash dance, however there really isn't much you can do with it in Brawl. There is also a very high chance that you will trip.

Usefulness: 4/10

Those are some pretty useful techniques. There is more than just FT into a FSmash you have all of your tilts and Jab at your command also.
The way you described it makes it seems like most Marths will justFT into A FSmash when there are plenty of options avaliable to you. I'd make these a yellow at least.
 

Remzi

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Uh, they're both pretty useless. No reason at all to use them.

At all.
Care to share any thoughts on the two new types of movement I presented? Just curious as to what your thoughts may be, though I'd understand if you didn't want to say anything until I got some vids up.
 

OmegaXF

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Uh, they're both pretty useless. No reason at all to use them.

At all.
All in all it's the players choice to use what they see. So.....they are some risky tactics at times but it's really just a player option. Can't argue over this tbh more cons then pros I suppose........But saying it's useless period thats hitting it with the center of the sword. (Bad)
 

Qckpy01

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I specifically use dash dance to try and trip when my opponent is respawning. Better then than in battle.
 

Steel

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Bengals I knew about both of them and don't find them very useful. The first one also looks ********.. if someone did it against me I'm sure I'd find a way to punish it.

The second one is just w/e to me, it's also kind of risky. I don't rely on any advanced forms of movement for the most part. I jump, dash, and minimal walking.

'Though, if you consider dashing to shield an advanced form of movement I do use that.
 

Remzi

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Bengals I knew about both of them and don't find them very useful. The first one also looks ********.. if someone did it against me I'm sure I'd find a way to punish it.

The second one is just w/e to me, it's also kind of risky. I don't rely on any advanced forms of movement for the most part. I jump, dash, and minimal walking.

'Though, if you consider dashing to shield an advanced form of movement I do use that.
The thing about glide walking is, you never have to fully commit to anything. You say it'd be easy to punish it, but the way I see it, as long as I'm glide walking I can completely change it up on you without a problem. The fact that its so versatile makes it hard to punish, as your opponent can't have the slightest idea as to what you're going to do next.

As for the ZAD, it does seem risky. And I'm looking into some other uses for it, as I've only found one pretty good use, and it won't always work.

I do, agree however that it's better to not rely too heavily on advanced forms of movement. Though I do use them when I feel it will help in my given situation.
 

Steel

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I'm Sheik.

You're gliding towards me turning backwards and forwards. Something tells me you won't be able to react fast enough if i charge in with a dash attack or grab, especially if I charge in when you would be facing backwards. Not saying don't use it, might be ok once or twice a match.
 

Remzi

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I'm Sheik.

You're gliding towards me turning backwards and forwards. Something tells me you won't be able to react fast enough if i charge in with a dash attack or grab, especially if I charge in when you would be facing backwards. Not saying don't use it, might be ok once or twice a match.
I'd rather not turn this into a game of hypothetical situations, but there is no down time in a glide walk where I would be unable to easily react to a grab or dash attack. It'd be just as unsafe for the Sheik as trying to dash attack me while standing. I could easily just throw up my shield the second I see you coming, or to be even more safe, I could jump backwards and bair (not fastfalled of course) or fair depending on my position.

I guess it's difficult to say whether either of us are right until I or someone else get some vids up showing it in a match.
 

Remzi

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Whether you get hit doing it or not, you look ******** as **** lmao XD
Rofl, there's no denying that. How funny would it be if this became as common as wavedashing. I can't imagine how gay it would look for everyone watching. Just imagine two characters spinning towards each other :laugh:
 

cman

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Whether you get hit doing it or not, you look ******** as **** lmao XD
Which makes it even better when you win right? You get to laugh at your opponent extra hard because he lost to a ballerina, complete with tiara!
 

feardragon64

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Rofl, there's no denying that. How funny would it be if this became as common as wavedashing. I can't imagine how gay it would look for everyone watching. Just imagine two characters spinning towards each other :laugh:
In the immortal words of samurai panda:
Oh god. Do you know how stupid the metagame will look if this is useful? We'll be spinning around like a bunch of ******* all day.

I love it.
But then again, dash dancing looks pretty stupid until you get used to it.
Just not as stupid as tard trotting.
 

Remzi

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LMAO, great minds think alike I suppose xD

But yea, as stupid as it does look, I do think it has the potential to be effective. I'm excited to see what people can come up with.
 

feardragon64

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LMAO, great minds think alike I suppose xD

But yea, as stupid as it does look, I do think it has the potential to be effective. I'm excited to see what people can come up with.
I don't think it's THAT useful. The thing is it's **** obvious what you're doing by the second turn and like steel said, you'll be punished in some way. For the actual landing craq walk, it might be interesting to go retreating bair(without fast fall), DI toward them to dtilt sliding toward them. Catch them off guard but that's about it. =\
 

Remzi

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I don't think it's THAT useful. The thing is it's **** obvious what you're doing by the second turn and like steel said, you'll be punished in some way. For the actual landing craq walk, it might be interesting to go retreating bair(without fast fall), DI toward them to dtilt sliding toward them. Catch them off guard but that's about it. =\
I don't see it as being anything ground breaking either, but for the record, knowing that it's coming does not make it ineffective. I think people are failing to realize the main point of Glide Walking. The purpose it serves is that it allows you to advance forward, while boosting and changing your momentum at will, and leaving every single option available to Marth open.
 

Remzi

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So.... I have replays showing these. Anyone willing to upload for me?
 

TLMarth

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Walk to Shield:


It sounds simple and it is; walk to shield is most effectively used as a way to get through projectile walls, and it works exceptionally. Just walk towards your opponent, and shield when a projectile comes at you. This works better for Marth than most characters, because of his rather high walking speed. It works best against characters such as Wolf and Toon Link. Perfect Shielding makes this approach option much more effective, as you can dash or continue to walk afterward without suffering any shield stun. So make sure to master perfect shielding projectiles.
When you said you could pwn TLs my imagination instantly went into overdrive about having a returning boomerang, zair, and grab at the same time. Then I realized that you said that Marth's walk was relatively fast and I was defeated.
 

/~Dogma~\

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I've actually been doing that glide walking you are talking about

the wolf main i play says it is completly useless but i do it once in awhile in tournies to make my oppenent think im going nutz
 

Coda

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ZAD, is an okay mindgame...

the other use I've found it for is to implement pivot grab as an approach... even that is risky, because I really don't know the reliability of pivot grabbing...

sometimes I grab from an epic distance, then others it feels like the same distance... it fails and sometimes I'd get punished... so eh...

For crazy walking, can you in completeness control Marth's momentum? or will there be a sliding lag, which you would have to adjust for during an approach?

If so, that unwanted momentum could ultimately screw your original spacing...

Then... I could be wrong--since it's still WALKING and can unleash anything and every sort of ground attack. Unless you would be "wavedashing" through out the sliding... which could still screw up some original spacing standards... but that's minor and players could compensate when learning//adding onto Marth's gameplay.

Aesthetically, Crazy walking look dumb, and seems to me only another fox trot, a parlor trick.

As for ZAD, its beginning to remind me of Dash Dancing, in the sense of its phenomenal grabbing ability + it's mind game aspect.
 
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