So this is basically the Marth version of Emblem Lord's Tactical thread located here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206225
I recommend you read that thread before you read this.
------------------------
The Three States of Gameplay
Neutral State
All of Marth's basic approach options apply here. You are not under any pressure and you are not dealing any. You have just about every option available to you and I will go over them and how you can follow them up.
Walk to Dtilt or Jab
One of Marth's easiest and most effective approaches at this stage in the fight (that being the neutral stage). If they block your dtilt you most likely only have a -7 frame disadvantage, if one took into account human reaction time the frame advantage may be slightly in your favor. This is a very easy way to "test the waters" with your opponent.
How do they react to this approach? Did they roll away? Walk towards them again and reset the situation. Do they spot dodge? Hit them in the face with dancing blade. Roll behind you? Same thing. Maybe they will attempt to strike back. Since Marth will be a good distance away from his opponent chances are Marth is in a better position to hit them back out. If the opponent over exerts themselves when trying to retaliate hit them with an up b OoS.
SH Fair
The staple of Marth's gameplay, SH fair is one of your safest and most potent approaches. When properly spaced, Marth is safely behind his sword while his opponent must defend himself. If this connects you want to move forward on your opponent. Don't just stand there and wait for him to come back, switch the state of gameplay into an advantaged state. Corner the opponent.
This is very safe on block. Your opponent may attempt to retaliate once you fall and hit the ground. Marth can simply transform his approach into a defensive wall and throw out a jab or a dtilt to keep his opponent out.
If your technique in fair'ng your opponent is the same thing over and over again (ie, basic short hop fair or full hop fair every time) you will be punished. You need to know how to mix it up. You have many options to fair an opponent; SH Fair, SHFF Fair, Double Fair, Full hop Double Fair, Double jump fair.. some are safer than others and some are more useful in certain situations. Keep yourself safe behind your sword, don't be predictable.
Short Hop Double Aerials
The most common version of this is the double fair. This is mostly a defensive option and one of Marth's best walls. I didn't name this section SH Double Fair because there are alternatives to what you can do after the initial fair. One option is to throw out a first hit nair instead. If this hits your opponent they will suffer from hit stun and you will be able to combo him. You can also up air.
Something else you can do is use your double jump after the first fair to stay extra safe and come down with one or two more. This is mostly just another alternative for a mix up, but it has its uses. Don't abuse it, as the opponent can easily get underneath you and punish.
If the opponent runs into your wall be sure to follow it up and apply pressure.
Dash to Shield
The only way your opponent can punish this is by grabbing you, and he probably will not do that unless you abuse this approach which would allow him to predict it. This is a very safe approach and a decent way to get inside some characters' tilts if they outrange your own. Personally, I grab out of this a good amount, but there are other options as well.
You can just drop your shield and throw out a jab or a dtilt. If they spot dodge as you approach you can either dancing blade or wait for them to come out of the dodge and then punish from there. If they roll away you can dash to DB, dtilt, fair, or even dash to grab. Whatever you do you are forcing your opponent to react to you and usually in a defensive manner. Also if they decide to attack your shield they can eat an up b.
Advantage State
As sexy as this state is, this is Brawl and it is harder to maintain it compared with other fighters. There are multiple states within the advantage state. I'll go over each and explain how to maintain control of the fight for as long as possible.
When You Are Combo'ng/Attacking
Marth is not really about combos. He's more about poking, pressuring, and putting his opponent into traps (which are about to be covered) with his sword. However, I will list some basic ones that he has:
(at low percent)
Fair to Dancing Blade
Up air to up tilt/up smash
Fthrow to Fsmash or Dthrow to Fsmash (varies with each character and you may have to stutter step against some)
Dtilt (untipped) to Dancing Blade
First hit Nair to: lots of stuff, Dolphin Slash or up smash being the main ones, you can also grab.
Now for the good stuff:
Your Opponent in the Air Above You
This isn't even very hard to set up. Marth has multiple options to get his opponent above him. Up throw and dancing blade up version being the main ones. Now, Marth being the great juggler he is makes no character want to be above him.
You can jump up after your opponent, bait the air dodge (chances are they won't use dair, very dependent on the character, but marth's up air probably outranges it anyway), and hit them with your nice up air (tipped this move will kill over the top pretty easily). The situation is now reset, they are still in a bad position and normally have no good options to turn the tide on you.
If you rather stay grounded you have three times as many options. Your opponent will most likely try to come down to the stage with an air dodge to avoid retaliation. You have three main options here: -Grab them and up throw again. -Dancing blade up version. -Up Smash (this hitbox is so messed up). Each will effectively reset the situation.
You are at a clear advantage. This is called: Juggle trap.
When Your Opponent is on the Ledge
I covered this in one of my other threads, scroll down the post about half way to see what Marth can do to his opponent while they are on the ledge. Here is the link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200150
When Your Opponent is Off the Stage
When your opponent is off the stage Marth can rack up some free damage out there. And if the situation arises, you can gimp your opponent.
If your opponent is recovering low you can simply run off (don't jump) and hit them with a fair. If they are pretty far off and pretty horizontal (maybe a little above) to the stage you can jump off and hit them with a fair or bair (RAR before jumping off usually recommended).
If they are recovering from the high corner of the stage blast zone you can either do a bair or reverse nair. Reverse nair will hit them with the back part of the attack that angels up towards the corner. It has good knock back.
If going off stage and trying to hit them isn't the best option ledge hugging is also very recommended vs certain characters. Simply learn to time your speed hug and you may be able to effectively gimp many opponents, sometimes at rather low percent.
When Your Opponent is Lying on the Ground
This usually occurs when you hit your opponent and they fail to either air dodge, aerial, or tech. Because Marth is a fast character this is not a good spot for your opponent. They made a mistake and now you must follow it up.
One way is to get up right next to them and throw up your shield. This has effectively limited two of their four options. They can't do a wake up attack or regular wake up now without getting grabbed or getting hit by up b. If they roll you can try to dash to dancing blade, but your 7 frame shield drop may limit you.
Another method is to stand on either side just outside their wake up attack range. If they regular wake up or attack get up you should either dash to grab (they may have time to spot dodge, be aware of this) or dash to DB. If they roll towards you that was the biggest mistake possible, you can either turn around and grab, smash, or dancing blade. Rolling away is probably the safest option, but you can still try (especially if you predict it) to dash towards them and grab/db. If not, walk towards them and dtilt. You're safe and you still did something worth while. Win-win situation.
---
Notice how each advantaged situation can easily flow into another advantaged situation. Just one example: You grab your opponent as they get up from the ledge and up throw them to start a juggle trap.
Marth is GREAT at staying in this state of gameplay and can really frustrate opponents.
Disadvantage State
This is basically the same thing as the advantage state, but this time the situations are AGAINST you. Marth is actually worse at some of the sub-states than other characters, let's take a look.
When You Are Being Combo'd
This is usually going to be a tilt lock, jab combo, or some sort of chain grab. Thankfully, Marth actually isn't that bad in this state. His up b cuts right through the tilt lock, pretty much any jab combo, and will interrupt Falco's chain grab among others'.
Know that opponents will be aware of this. For example, Falco may down throw you but then wait for you to up b. You're now in a horrible position and he can do whatever he pleases. Sheik may not do her whole jab combo and hold up her shield after the first or second hit, awaiting your futile up b. Don't get caught in this crap. Be smart.
When You Are Above Your Opponent
Marth SUCKS when his opponent is below him. Marth, while having good aerial mobility, is one of the easier characters to juggle. To get out of this you have to be smart and think. Don't land right next to your opponent with an air dodge. Chances are you will get hit.
Thankfully, Marth has a few options at his disposal to fool with his opponent. Besides using your double jump to get away from your opponent, you can use your forward b to stall yourself and mess up his timing. Also, you can do a reverse neutral b in the air and the shield breaker will send you in a different trajectory, further throwing off your opponent.
When You Are on the Ledge
Marth is also pretty bad when he is on the ledge. His options aren't very good. You have to think, don't just get up right away expecting to be at a neutral advantage as soon as you press a button to get up from the ledge. This is also covered in my other thread, this time it is on the top-half of the post:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200150
When You Are off the Stage
Marth has an average recovery. He is able to be gimped. Know your weaknesses and how to get around them.
First, if you are thrown or hit slightly off the stage do NOT just jump right back on. Your opponent will be waiting for this and could hit you with something fatal. Try to recover low, it's much safer.
If your opponent jumps after you while trying to edge guard you can either: Fair to hit them back towards the stage, air dodge, or counter (risky depending on the situation, not recommended). More often than not your fair will outrange your opponent's. Use this to your advantage.
When recovering low your opponent will most likely try to edge hog you. Don't let this happen. Your forward b can stall you to mess with your opponent's invincibility frames, but he can catch on to this too. Mix it up.
Never, EVER, recover with shield breaker. That **** sucks.
Also most importantly: learn to DI.
When You Are Lying on the Ground
This is all about knowing your options. There are characters (like Snake) that will be able to put you into this position with ease. Do not rule out regular wake up and wake up attack. Sometimes they are so simple they will be able to get you back on your feet safely.
When rolling know that there are certain locations on the stage where your opponent may expect you to roll. If Snake drops you right next to the ledge sometimes a player's first reaction is to roll away from it. Snake could hit you with something nasty if he knows what you are going to do.
Know your options. Mix it up. Stay safe.
Shielding
You have great options from your shield with Dolphin Slash and Dancing Blade. These two moves make Marths out of shield game feared.
Marth has excellent pokes on shields. Here is dtilt's frame data:
Shield Stun: 11
~Shield Hit Lag: 4
ADVANTAGE: -7
(for all of Marth's frame data, look here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825)
Fair is also relatively safe on shield when spaced properly like I said before. Marth is good at shield pressure and he has pretty good options after hitting a shield while his opponent's are rather limited.
If you dtilt a shield you have the following options:
If you think they will try to retaliate you can do a retreating fair. It's safe, may tipper, and worst case scenario is the situation is reset to neutral. Just doing a jab is also an option.
Dtilt, wait a moment, dtilt again. I recommend you wait because the person shielding will usually not come out the at the first opportunity if they don't see a chance to punish. Your dtilt will either hit a shield again or hit their ankles.
Dtilt, wait, dancing blade. Same as above.
Dtilt, shield breaker. Self explanatory, could be risky.
Dtilt, dash grab. If they like waiting in their shield for half a second or so, take advantage.
Marth and Risks
Marth, especially at low percent when compared to his opponent, can sometimes afford to take risks and hope for a beneficial outcome. A few that I like to do:
Dash behind > pivot grab
Dash behind > fsmash
Forward b > Shield breaker
Walk > Dsmash
_______________________________________
That will wrap it up. I hope that this will be beneficial to the newer/moderate Marths and that the advanced ones can even learn a thing a two. I may edit this with a few things as time goes on.
Discuss.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206225
I recommend you read that thread before you read this.
------------------------
The Three States of Gameplay
Neutral State
All of Marth's basic approach options apply here. You are not under any pressure and you are not dealing any. You have just about every option available to you and I will go over them and how you can follow them up.
Walk to Dtilt or Jab
One of Marth's easiest and most effective approaches at this stage in the fight (that being the neutral stage). If they block your dtilt you most likely only have a -7 frame disadvantage, if one took into account human reaction time the frame advantage may be slightly in your favor. This is a very easy way to "test the waters" with your opponent.
How do they react to this approach? Did they roll away? Walk towards them again and reset the situation. Do they spot dodge? Hit them in the face with dancing blade. Roll behind you? Same thing. Maybe they will attempt to strike back. Since Marth will be a good distance away from his opponent chances are Marth is in a better position to hit them back out. If the opponent over exerts themselves when trying to retaliate hit them with an up b OoS.
SH Fair
The staple of Marth's gameplay, SH fair is one of your safest and most potent approaches. When properly spaced, Marth is safely behind his sword while his opponent must defend himself. If this connects you want to move forward on your opponent. Don't just stand there and wait for him to come back, switch the state of gameplay into an advantaged state. Corner the opponent.
This is very safe on block. Your opponent may attempt to retaliate once you fall and hit the ground. Marth can simply transform his approach into a defensive wall and throw out a jab or a dtilt to keep his opponent out.
If your technique in fair'ng your opponent is the same thing over and over again (ie, basic short hop fair or full hop fair every time) you will be punished. You need to know how to mix it up. You have many options to fair an opponent; SH Fair, SHFF Fair, Double Fair, Full hop Double Fair, Double jump fair.. some are safer than others and some are more useful in certain situations. Keep yourself safe behind your sword, don't be predictable.
Short Hop Double Aerials
The most common version of this is the double fair. This is mostly a defensive option and one of Marth's best walls. I didn't name this section SH Double Fair because there are alternatives to what you can do after the initial fair. One option is to throw out a first hit nair instead. If this hits your opponent they will suffer from hit stun and you will be able to combo him. You can also up air.
Something else you can do is use your double jump after the first fair to stay extra safe and come down with one or two more. This is mostly just another alternative for a mix up, but it has its uses. Don't abuse it, as the opponent can easily get underneath you and punish.
If the opponent runs into your wall be sure to follow it up and apply pressure.
Dash to Shield
The only way your opponent can punish this is by grabbing you, and he probably will not do that unless you abuse this approach which would allow him to predict it. This is a very safe approach and a decent way to get inside some characters' tilts if they outrange your own. Personally, I grab out of this a good amount, but there are other options as well.
You can just drop your shield and throw out a jab or a dtilt. If they spot dodge as you approach you can either dancing blade or wait for them to come out of the dodge and then punish from there. If they roll away you can dash to DB, dtilt, fair, or even dash to grab. Whatever you do you are forcing your opponent to react to you and usually in a defensive manner. Also if they decide to attack your shield they can eat an up b.
Advantage State
As sexy as this state is, this is Brawl and it is harder to maintain it compared with other fighters. There are multiple states within the advantage state. I'll go over each and explain how to maintain control of the fight for as long as possible.
When You Are Combo'ng/Attacking
Marth is not really about combos. He's more about poking, pressuring, and putting his opponent into traps (which are about to be covered) with his sword. However, I will list some basic ones that he has:
(at low percent)
Fair to Dancing Blade
Up air to up tilt/up smash
Fthrow to Fsmash or Dthrow to Fsmash (varies with each character and you may have to stutter step against some)
Dtilt (untipped) to Dancing Blade
First hit Nair to: lots of stuff, Dolphin Slash or up smash being the main ones, you can also grab.
Now for the good stuff:
Your Opponent in the Air Above You
This isn't even very hard to set up. Marth has multiple options to get his opponent above him. Up throw and dancing blade up version being the main ones. Now, Marth being the great juggler he is makes no character want to be above him.
You can jump up after your opponent, bait the air dodge (chances are they won't use dair, very dependent on the character, but marth's up air probably outranges it anyway), and hit them with your nice up air (tipped this move will kill over the top pretty easily). The situation is now reset, they are still in a bad position and normally have no good options to turn the tide on you.
If you rather stay grounded you have three times as many options. Your opponent will most likely try to come down to the stage with an air dodge to avoid retaliation. You have three main options here: -Grab them and up throw again. -Dancing blade up version. -Up Smash (this hitbox is so messed up). Each will effectively reset the situation.
You are at a clear advantage. This is called: Juggle trap.
When Your Opponent is on the Ledge
I covered this in one of my other threads, scroll down the post about half way to see what Marth can do to his opponent while they are on the ledge. Here is the link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200150
When Your Opponent is Off the Stage
When your opponent is off the stage Marth can rack up some free damage out there. And if the situation arises, you can gimp your opponent.
If your opponent is recovering low you can simply run off (don't jump) and hit them with a fair. If they are pretty far off and pretty horizontal (maybe a little above) to the stage you can jump off and hit them with a fair or bair (RAR before jumping off usually recommended).
If they are recovering from the high corner of the stage blast zone you can either do a bair or reverse nair. Reverse nair will hit them with the back part of the attack that angels up towards the corner. It has good knock back.
If going off stage and trying to hit them isn't the best option ledge hugging is also very recommended vs certain characters. Simply learn to time your speed hug and you may be able to effectively gimp many opponents, sometimes at rather low percent.
When Your Opponent is Lying on the Ground
This usually occurs when you hit your opponent and they fail to either air dodge, aerial, or tech. Because Marth is a fast character this is not a good spot for your opponent. They made a mistake and now you must follow it up.
One way is to get up right next to them and throw up your shield. This has effectively limited two of their four options. They can't do a wake up attack or regular wake up now without getting grabbed or getting hit by up b. If they roll you can try to dash to dancing blade, but your 7 frame shield drop may limit you.
Another method is to stand on either side just outside their wake up attack range. If they regular wake up or attack get up you should either dash to grab (they may have time to spot dodge, be aware of this) or dash to DB. If they roll towards you that was the biggest mistake possible, you can either turn around and grab, smash, or dancing blade. Rolling away is probably the safest option, but you can still try (especially if you predict it) to dash towards them and grab/db. If not, walk towards them and dtilt. You're safe and you still did something worth while. Win-win situation.
---
Notice how each advantaged situation can easily flow into another advantaged situation. Just one example: You grab your opponent as they get up from the ledge and up throw them to start a juggle trap.
Marth is GREAT at staying in this state of gameplay and can really frustrate opponents.
Disadvantage State
This is basically the same thing as the advantage state, but this time the situations are AGAINST you. Marth is actually worse at some of the sub-states than other characters, let's take a look.
When You Are Being Combo'd
This is usually going to be a tilt lock, jab combo, or some sort of chain grab. Thankfully, Marth actually isn't that bad in this state. His up b cuts right through the tilt lock, pretty much any jab combo, and will interrupt Falco's chain grab among others'.
Know that opponents will be aware of this. For example, Falco may down throw you but then wait for you to up b. You're now in a horrible position and he can do whatever he pleases. Sheik may not do her whole jab combo and hold up her shield after the first or second hit, awaiting your futile up b. Don't get caught in this crap. Be smart.
When You Are Above Your Opponent
Marth SUCKS when his opponent is below him. Marth, while having good aerial mobility, is one of the easier characters to juggle. To get out of this you have to be smart and think. Don't land right next to your opponent with an air dodge. Chances are you will get hit.
Thankfully, Marth has a few options at his disposal to fool with his opponent. Besides using your double jump to get away from your opponent, you can use your forward b to stall yourself and mess up his timing. Also, you can do a reverse neutral b in the air and the shield breaker will send you in a different trajectory, further throwing off your opponent.
When You Are on the Ledge
Marth is also pretty bad when he is on the ledge. His options aren't very good. You have to think, don't just get up right away expecting to be at a neutral advantage as soon as you press a button to get up from the ledge. This is also covered in my other thread, this time it is on the top-half of the post:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200150
When You Are off the Stage
Marth has an average recovery. He is able to be gimped. Know your weaknesses and how to get around them.
First, if you are thrown or hit slightly off the stage do NOT just jump right back on. Your opponent will be waiting for this and could hit you with something fatal. Try to recover low, it's much safer.
If your opponent jumps after you while trying to edge guard you can either: Fair to hit them back towards the stage, air dodge, or counter (risky depending on the situation, not recommended). More often than not your fair will outrange your opponent's. Use this to your advantage.
When recovering low your opponent will most likely try to edge hog you. Don't let this happen. Your forward b can stall you to mess with your opponent's invincibility frames, but he can catch on to this too. Mix it up.
Never, EVER, recover with shield breaker. That **** sucks.
Also most importantly: learn to DI.
When You Are Lying on the Ground
This is all about knowing your options. There are characters (like Snake) that will be able to put you into this position with ease. Do not rule out regular wake up and wake up attack. Sometimes they are so simple they will be able to get you back on your feet safely.
When rolling know that there are certain locations on the stage where your opponent may expect you to roll. If Snake drops you right next to the ledge sometimes a player's first reaction is to roll away from it. Snake could hit you with something nasty if he knows what you are going to do.
Know your options. Mix it up. Stay safe.
Shielding
You have great options from your shield with Dolphin Slash and Dancing Blade. These two moves make Marths out of shield game feared.
Marth has excellent pokes on shields. Here is dtilt's frame data:
Shield Stun: 11
~Shield Hit Lag: 4
ADVANTAGE: -7
(for all of Marth's frame data, look here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825)
Fair is also relatively safe on shield when spaced properly like I said before. Marth is good at shield pressure and he has pretty good options after hitting a shield while his opponent's are rather limited.
If you dtilt a shield you have the following options:
If you think they will try to retaliate you can do a retreating fair. It's safe, may tipper, and worst case scenario is the situation is reset to neutral. Just doing a jab is also an option.
Dtilt, wait a moment, dtilt again. I recommend you wait because the person shielding will usually not come out the at the first opportunity if they don't see a chance to punish. Your dtilt will either hit a shield again or hit their ankles.
Dtilt, wait, dancing blade. Same as above.
Dtilt, shield breaker. Self explanatory, could be risky.
Dtilt, dash grab. If they like waiting in their shield for half a second or so, take advantage.
Marth and Risks
Marth, especially at low percent when compared to his opponent, can sometimes afford to take risks and hope for a beneficial outcome. A few that I like to do:
Dash behind > pivot grab
Dash behind > fsmash
Forward b > Shield breaker
Walk > Dsmash
_______________________________________
That will wrap it up. I hope that this will be beneficial to the newer/moderate Marths and that the advanced ones can even learn a thing a two. I may edit this with a few things as time goes on.
Discuss.
