Official G&W Stage Discussion #8: Castle Siege

This stage has 3 transformations. The first transformation is the top of the castle. The second transformation has the two breakable statues and a walkoff blastzone. It takes place inside the castle. The third transformtion is underground with a relatively flat platform that tilts a little. I've included the transition phase, which is just flat and lasts for a few seconds between each transition

1st phase

2nd phase

3rd phase

Transition phase:

When you discuss the transitions, PLEASE STATE WHICH PHASE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Something like:

1: Has a lip...blah
2: Refresh moves on statue...blah, blah
3: Ledgecamp...blah, blah, blah

Discuss.

No one's posted yet?

1:

G&W can pull his usual Nair through the platform trick on this transition. The size of this stage is very small, which allows G&W to apply constant pressure on his opponent. I usually play aggressively and offensively with G&W on this part. It keeps the pressure on your opponent and since the stage is so small, he has no where to run. On larger stages, your opponent can just run away and reassess the situation after he just got 75% in 15 seconds without being able to touch you, but in this stage, he has no where to run. If you play aggressively on this stage, you might be able to exploit the "shock factor" and take advantage of your opponent that way, but most pros are able to remain calm, so it really depends on the player himself.

This stage has a lip on both sides, so just aim for the edge and you won't get stuck under the lip.

2:

This is the walkoff transition with breakable statues. We all know attack the statues will refresh your moveset. The statues usually interfere with projectiles users, so they don't really hurt G&W. Just be careful not to stale out your kill moves by whiffing your opponent and hitting the statues instead.

This stage is really big and the platforms are really high and spaced apart. G&W will have a hard time exploiting the platforms like he usually does. They are also too big to take advantage of techchasing.

I don't really like the transition, no matter what character I play.

3:

Nothing special here. It's almost like BF without the platforms. I believe the stage tilts a little, but that shouldn't throw you off too much.

Transition phase (the grey part):

Ahh...I like this part. When it transitions from 3 -> 1, try to hit your opponent to the right. This is really effective against people with sucky recoveries. I once grabbed an Ike during the transition phase and after the stage transformed to the first part, we were floating way out there (on the far right side of the first stage, off the stage), and I was able to make it back, but ike wasn't...GIMP!

Come on people...

I usually counterpick this stage against people who projectile camp a lot. I dunno what to think otherwise. I don't think it really gives G&W many character specific advantages that are noteworthy.

It's been five days and only one other person posted...

I wonder where all the people who usually post on stage disccusions went. Maybe they went on Thanksgiving break...

i really don't like this stage much at all. its not really that its bad for gw or anything, i really just don't believe in stages that have walk-off edges for long periods of time (delphino's ok those don't last all that long). Not to mention i've been gimped quite a few times just because i've been caught under the stage in the first and third sections. not my fave stage at all.

I should point out that many characters benefit a lot from attacking the statues to quickly refresh stale moves. GW doesn't benefit from this since he never really suffers this problem too much.

And **** the right ledge on the first stage.

ha ha, yeah agreed cutter, gw does this plenty fine through up airs and simple move variety. agreed, not a good gw stage imo. takes away from his good recovery game, reduces his good edgeguard game, and in many places screws him over as far as survivability.

ooo good point, I forgot about how it hinders G&W's recovery/edgeguarding game. DK, Falco, and IC's can easily kill you on the transition with the walkoffs with their amazing grab/throw game.

The statues often stale out, rather than refresh, G&W's kill moves when G&W misses. G&W doesn't really have a spammable kill move (i.e. MK's dsmash) that goes stale, so he doesn't need to refresh his moves that often (He has uair to refresh his moves).

I agree, I hate this stage too, no matter which character I'm using.

I don't think this stage is really bad for Mr. Game & Watch; that first form with those lovely platforms is really fun, and if you land a grab near the end of a transition that will put you over a pit, you can have fun with down throw (you keep throwing even if you're both placed in midair). The only real problem I have with walk-offs as Mr. Game & Watch is that you don't have a good throw to exploit them, but they really aren't completely awful or anything (unless you're fighting Ness with his crazy forward throw!). The second form still gives a lot of opportunities to play platforms and such so it's really not that bad, and you can hang around the statues at high damage and lure opponents into staling out their kill moves pretty easily. The third form has no platforms so it's my least favorite form, but at least it tilts like that to make life a little harder for projectile users.

I really don't see why anyone should care about the lips under the ledges at all. Just don't recover into them!

Just, a meh stage.

On the second transformation you can run time out vvveerrryyy easily, if the battle has gotten to that point. Your chute can also kill fairly well here, helping your gimping. But there are normally better choices =[.

Lets do halbard!

Lylat is next (I think it is the last neutral). We can do halberd after that if you want.

Any particular counterpicks here?

Ratings?

I would rate it somewhere below a 5/10 (since 5 is what the average G&W stage is, and this is below average for him), maybe a 3 or 4. I don't know who I would actually counterpick this stage for. I know Ike and Marth seem to do pretty well here so avoid them. Maybe someone with a projectile game that they rely on: The first transformation allows you to avoid them pretty well because of the slopped stage + Platforms, the second because of the statues and the high platforms to either sides, and the last because of the tilting stage. Throwing out characters here, but this stage might be good against Link, Pit, ZSS, and erm jigglypuff (because her jab is so bad that she cant really refresh ). Just some characters that might do worse here.

So it offers protection to projectiles, mostly, for G&W. G&W doesnt have many issues with projectiles, though, so eh.

Dislike this stage :C

I agree that this is useful against projectile characters, but G&W doesn't have a problem against projectile characters, so this stage doesn't really give him an advantage.

3.5/10

4/10.

Do we need to wait a week on the next one? This one isn't a point of interest =\.

And if we do "rush" these, its not like they cannot be edited or revisited.

_Phloat_ said:

4/10.

Do we need to wait a week on the next one? This one isn't a point of interest =\.

And if we do "rush" these, its not like they cannot be edited or revisited.

Click to expand...

i agree
theres not really much to talk about
its not that great for game and watch and how often does this stage get played anyways?

jog said:

i agree
theres not really much to talk about
its not that great for game and watch and how often does this stage get played anyways?

Click to expand...

Its not that rare I find, but the fights are barely effected by it, in either sides favor.

...

Snake has a hard time killing you in the 2nd transition, high ceiling and huge space to run away, and his nades are stopped by the statues.. But if it is your CP, and he goes snake, why the hell would you go GaW?

soo...what stage do you guys want to discuss next?

i think halbard would be good, and then lylat.

Ok then, I'm going to open up the Halberd thread.

Argh 999th post. 1 more (Halberd thread) and I will be a smash lord. MUAHAHAHAHAHA