-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Toon Link's Match-up Discussion #15: Peach
- Thread starter VietGeek
- Start date
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
We discussed Toon Link a while ago on our Match up thread
Here's the link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193&page=56
Projectiles will trash a Floaty Peach. If Peach is abusing Floating, spam stuff at her when she's in the air
Here's the link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193&page=56
Projectiles will trash a Floaty Peach. If Peach is abusing Floating, spam stuff at her when she's in the air
MasterChef
Smash Rookie
NAir, FAir, projectiles, especially 'rang, forward tilt and ZAir all work well, the main issues I have are getting spacing right, and avoiding Peaches DAir combos. I find it relatively easy to avoid the DAir combos if you predict her float height and unleash ZAir attacks to get her on the ground. Follow that up with SHDA and then go aggressive with 'rang and FTilts to increase damage. You can out-projectile Peach fairly easily so you're forcing her to always be on top of you, but since Toon Link doesn't like being on bottom, make sure you keep your distance... no pun intended.
PrepareYourself
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 950
UTilt is your friend when she's floating right over your head.
Bombs be your friend too, but if she catches one, she will likely glide toss it at your face and grab soon after.
Bombs be your friend too, but if she catches one, she will likely glide toss it at your face and grab soon after.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Don't get caught by dair shield pressure, instead roll away. Projectiles wreck her float game. I don't know if Zair outranges peach's fair but I'm pretty sure it does?
exidid
Smash Journeyman
I'm not sure, but maybe when she is trying to dair you shield you could Upsmash OoS in the cooldown. Since it is fast maybe it will hit before she starts her second dair. Maybe a SH Nair could work.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
If you roll she'll float after you and she floats faster than your roll >_>
Its better to just shield the whole thing if caught by it...
Same concept fot pika's dsmash...
-iron-
ExCeL 52
Smash Lord
DONT ROLL
and all your projectiles are your best friends
and all your projectiles are your best friends
I play with Chip a bit (<3 Chip ).
The rules of fighting Peach with Toon Link:
1: Make walls of projectiles. Camp camp camp.
2: Don't spotdodge or roll, ever. You'll take a 40% dair combo if you spotdodge.
3: Many characters have a hard time punishing Peach dairs. I *think* TL can usmash her OOS in between dairs, though my memory is fuzzy on that. More importantly, you can use upsmash if you PREDICT her coming in from a dair. The Peach should know not to spam it.
4: Don't get fair'd. Peach can fair your shield, autocancel the fair and jab you faster than you can shield-grab her. If you shield the jab, she can dash-grab you or just roll away. If you try to shield grab her out of an autocancelled fair, her jab will hit you first. You cannot punish a properly spaced and autocancelled fair on your shield. However, you CAN make it very difficult for her to get close enough to do that.
5: Your usmash is her bane. You'll get most of your kills with it.
6: Bairs are good, but be careful. Her nair comes out in two frames and will sometimes break the combos.
7: Space to avoid Toad. Peach can pull out her counter at any time and it's got significant range in front of her and wipes out all projectiles in her path. Just be ready so that if she pulls it out you can be out of range. If the Peach tracks the boomerang and then rushes you and counters the boomerang during its return, you can't really do too much
I think I'm the only Peach that does that though, LOL. Everyone I've told it to loved the idea.
I'd put the matchup at 55:45 myself. I think Chip considers it even. It's hard to tell, but I'd say it's somewhere in the 55:45 to 50:50 range.
But you'll only win by camping Peach to death. Aggressiveness will be punished horribly.
Also, don't approach from above. Her utilt ***** everything you've got and her usmash will trade hits with your dair (and her usmash will kill you at 80%...but it's really hard to time to trade hits, so I usually just go for utilt).
The rules of fighting Peach with Toon Link:
1: Make walls of projectiles. Camp camp camp.
2: Don't spotdodge or roll, ever. You'll take a 40% dair combo if you spotdodge.
3: Many characters have a hard time punishing Peach dairs. I *think* TL can usmash her OOS in between dairs, though my memory is fuzzy on that. More importantly, you can use upsmash if you PREDICT her coming in from a dair. The Peach should know not to spam it.
4: Don't get fair'd. Peach can fair your shield, autocancel the fair and jab you faster than you can shield-grab her. If you shield the jab, she can dash-grab you or just roll away. If you try to shield grab her out of an autocancelled fair, her jab will hit you first. You cannot punish a properly spaced and autocancelled fair on your shield. However, you CAN make it very difficult for her to get close enough to do that.
5: Your usmash is her bane. You'll get most of your kills with it.
6: Bairs are good, but be careful. Her nair comes out in two frames and will sometimes break the combos.
7: Space to avoid Toad. Peach can pull out her counter at any time and it's got significant range in front of her and wipes out all projectiles in her path. Just be ready so that if she pulls it out you can be out of range. If the Peach tracks the boomerang and then rushes you and counters the boomerang during its return, you can't really do too much
I think I'm the only Peach that does that though, LOL. Everyone I've told it to loved the idea.I'd put the matchup at 55:45 myself. I think Chip considers it even. It's hard to tell, but I'd say it's somewhere in the 55:45 to 50:50 range.
But you'll only win by camping Peach to death. Aggressiveness will be punished horribly.
Also, don't approach from above. Her utilt ***** everything you've got and her usmash will trade hits with your dair (and her usmash will kill you at 80%...but it's really hard to time to trade hits, so I usually just go for utilt).
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
Main strategy:
The main thing you have to worry about is Peach's float. It can be combo'd with another Dair and a Utilt till like 50%, so avoid it if you can. Peach can maybe use Usmash instead of Utilt, but thats a dumb move. They could also follow up with a Parasol afterwords (considering your location in the air above them), but I don't see that happening. Floating Dair is ridiculously unpublishable for TL. Its not punishable at ALL if she does it right. The problem is that Utilt and Usmash both wont reach her when shes retreating to start another Dair. I'd say if you want to win a match against Peach, don't shield when shes above you, don't shield when shes approaching, and don't roll too much, especially towards her. If you want to keep her from floating,throw boomerangs straight (if your on the ground) and towards her if your in the air. Don't SHDA. Pointless. but QUICKDRAW. Whenever you short hop and pull out a bomb, quickdraw. When your in the air with a bomb, that would probably give Peach a little time to try and approach with a float. The arrow will stop that and you can JC throw the bomb or whatever.
Projectiles:
Arrows are pretty much useless unless they're for quickdraws. Boomerangs and arrows are just to stop floating. Bombs are probably for damaging. They MIGHT also get you out of a floating Dair, if they explode when your in one. Peach's glide toss is amazing compared to JC throw. It goes like 2-3 times as far and the turnip doesn't explode, so shes safe to hit you from whatever distance she lives. She can also glide toss our bombs, but turnips are probably a better choice for her.
Recoveries:
Peach's recovery is too good. Don't try to gimp her. Well... maybe if the chance arises, you can get a Dair in. If Peach has already used her jump, and float, and still needs to use the parasol to grab the edge, you can go grab the edge (using your invulnerability frames to avoid the first hit of the parasol), let go of the edge (as in, press the direction away from the edge), and immediately Dair. The ideal plan here is that she doesn't fall faster to grab the edge and you hit her with the Dair before the parasol hits you. But yeah, risky. Don't use it twice in a match with the same Peach, thats for sure. For safety, just throw bombs out there, maybe boomerangs. You can just off and Nair too I guess. When she's trying to gimp you, I'm pretty sure she can Dair through the spin attack, so watch out for that when your close to the edge, it could get you stage spiked. Also, she can drop turnips to hit you, which also miiiight get you stage spiked. Just prepare to press L or R when your recovering, and try to recover with TL's tether if you can.
Killing:
You know whats lame? Peach is one of those characters, like Kirby, who sometimes float over the second hit of Fsmash. So I recommend not using that as a kill move. Your not really safe to use it unless the level is tiled so that your a little higher then her. Dsmash shouldn't be used for killing, or even trying to gimp at the edge. Use it for damage I guess. Kill Peach with Usmash or Fair. Fair her when she's floating during her recovery or while shes descending during her parasol. Peach is probably going to go with Usmash for killing. Her Dair isn't eve a kill move, and can be properly DI/SDI'd out of, so nothing to worry about there. Fsmash just depends on what items she uses. Either way, watch out for it near the edge. Her Usmash is really good if its sweet spotted. DI to the left or right when she hits you with it.
Approaching:
Peach's aerials auto cancel. So if she uses and aerial on you and stops floating, get ready for a jab attack or grab (probably jab attack). Just grab after she uses jabs or something and your good. Toon Link shouldn't really be approaching in the match up, but if he is, do it with Zair. Space well against Peach. Thats really important.
Oh, and her Nair comes out fast enough for no Bair chains lmao.
The main thing you have to worry about is Peach's float. It can be combo'd with another Dair and a Utilt till like 50%, so avoid it if you can. Peach can maybe use Usmash instead of Utilt, but thats a dumb move. They could also follow up with a Parasol afterwords (considering your location in the air above them), but I don't see that happening. Floating Dair is ridiculously unpublishable for TL. Its not punishable at ALL if she does it right. The problem is that Utilt and Usmash both wont reach her when shes retreating to start another Dair. I'd say if you want to win a match against Peach, don't shield when shes above you, don't shield when shes approaching, and don't roll too much, especially towards her. If you want to keep her from floating,throw boomerangs straight (if your on the ground) and towards her if your in the air. Don't SHDA. Pointless. but QUICKDRAW. Whenever you short hop and pull out a bomb, quickdraw. When your in the air with a bomb, that would probably give Peach a little time to try and approach with a float. The arrow will stop that and you can JC throw the bomb or whatever.
Projectiles:
Arrows are pretty much useless unless they're for quickdraws. Boomerangs and arrows are just to stop floating. Bombs are probably for damaging. They MIGHT also get you out of a floating Dair, if they explode when your in one. Peach's glide toss is amazing compared to JC throw. It goes like 2-3 times as far and the turnip doesn't explode, so shes safe to hit you from whatever distance she lives. She can also glide toss our bombs, but turnips are probably a better choice for her.
Recoveries:
Peach's recovery is too good. Don't try to gimp her. Well... maybe if the chance arises, you can get a Dair in. If Peach has already used her jump, and float, and still needs to use the parasol to grab the edge, you can go grab the edge (using your invulnerability frames to avoid the first hit of the parasol), let go of the edge (as in, press the direction away from the edge), and immediately Dair. The ideal plan here is that she doesn't fall faster to grab the edge and you hit her with the Dair before the parasol hits you. But yeah, risky. Don't use it twice in a match with the same Peach, thats for sure. For safety, just throw bombs out there, maybe boomerangs. You can just off and Nair too I guess. When she's trying to gimp you, I'm pretty sure she can Dair through the spin attack, so watch out for that when your close to the edge, it could get you stage spiked. Also, she can drop turnips to hit you, which also miiiight get you stage spiked. Just prepare to press L or R when your recovering, and try to recover with TL's tether if you can.
Killing:
You know whats lame? Peach is one of those characters, like Kirby, who sometimes float over the second hit of Fsmash. So I recommend not using that as a kill move. Your not really safe to use it unless the level is tiled so that your a little higher then her. Dsmash shouldn't be used for killing, or even trying to gimp at the edge. Use it for damage I guess. Kill Peach with Usmash or Fair. Fair her when she's floating during her recovery or while shes descending during her parasol. Peach is probably going to go with Usmash for killing. Her Dair isn't eve a kill move, and can be properly DI/SDI'd out of, so nothing to worry about there. Fsmash just depends on what items she uses. Either way, watch out for it near the edge. Her Usmash is really good if its sweet spotted. DI to the left or right when she hits you with it.
Approaching:
Peach's aerials auto cancel. So if she uses and aerial on you and stops floating, get ready for a jab attack or grab (probably jab attack). Just grab after she uses jabs or something and your good. Toon Link shouldn't really be approaching in the match up, but if he is, do it with Zair. Space well against Peach. Thats really important.
Oh, and her Nair comes out fast enough for no Bair chains lmao.
Dair Dair Uair Parasol is one of my favorite combos in terms of looks, but we never do it because if they airdodge the parasol we get *****. Dair Dair Uair FF Utilt ends up being the most commonly used, but there's all kinds of other options peach can use to chase DI.
Toon Link has it easy though, since his usmash can hit Peach if he predicts it at startup. Believe it or not, some characters can't even do that. Case in point: Olimar, Ganondorf, ROB...
Yep yep.
Dang, that's a risky idea 0.o I don't think I'd even attempt it. Depending on her spacing, she might instant-sweetspot the ledge when you release it and attempt to dair, which would get you killed.
If she's recovering low and using forward-B, you can intercept her forward B with any of your aerials bar uair, so that might be the best time to try for a dair. But Peach usually won't be in that situation so it's not something you can count on.
Honestly, don't even bother with the second hit of fsmash. If Peach simply holds UP, she'll automatically float out of the first hit and the second hit swishes beneath you, giving her a free dair or aerial of her choice.
Peach will go for usmash if an opening arises, but most Peaches won't actively be trying to land it- they'll take too much damage if they're running around chasing you with it because the sweetspot is dang hard to land. Actually, Fair and Bair will probably end up killing you the most- and she CAN gimp you offstage with turnips + edgehogging (floating against the ledge and releasing right as your up-B reaches the sweetspot) if you're not careful with your bombs.
Peach can just do the first hit of jab and roll away before you can do anything AFAIK.
Correct. Don't ever approach and you'll do fine
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
I forget to mention that Toon Link's Uair/Dair is evil. If Peach tries to hit TL whilst he's in Uair/Dair animation, she'll either get hit or trade hits with TL (I think the 2nd only applies with his Dair)
No, you can utilt the dair, and usmash trades hits (bad trade for TL :/ ).
Also, I'm uploading some friendlies Chip and I played a few weeks ago right now, if that'll help anyone
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
D'oh. Sorry I meant to put if you hit Toon Link with aerials. My bad
But seriously, I learnt my lesson when I thought I was safe to hit TL with a Fair near the end of TL's Uair...whilst high in the air at around 150% >.>
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
I'm glad this was mentioned - I guess. I was reading the page and no one was mentioning it so I was rejoicing. You can't kill us off the side.
Well, here's some thoughts on some counterpick stages:
Thoughts? Obviously, the "Ban" stages you'd want to counterpick, and the "Counterpick" stages you'd want to ban.Toon Link
Counterpick: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion
Ban: Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Halberd, Green Greens
I was thinking Pokemon Stadium 1 might be a decent stage for Peach to pick on Toon Link as well. Tall ceiling combined with a morphing stage that can potentially stop Toon Link's camping by putting a wall in his face.
Videos up!
I played something like a dozen friendlies with Chip, but my VHS tape I had used to record stuff at a tournament the day before reached the end after only two So I only have the first two matches of the day recorded (the later ones were so much better).
They were friendlies, and we were chatting and stuff in the meantime, so dumb mistakes were made- it's hardly the peak of the characters. But maybe this video can help people not familiar with the matchup.
Praxis vs Chip friendlies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9K7LN-e-Ao
I played something like a dozen friendlies with Chip, but my VHS tape I had used to record stuff at a tournament the day before reached the end after only two
So I only have the first two matches of the day recorded (the later ones were so much better).They were friendlies, and we were chatting and stuff in the meantime, so dumb mistakes were made- it's hardly the peak of the characters. But maybe this video can help people not familiar with the matchup.
Praxis vs Chip friendlies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9K7LN-e-Ao
A tournament match against Valdens' G&W...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxxTjmIhVXU
...and some really old friendlies with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrp-fcaJY2I
(also, 0:30 demonstrates Peach floating out of fsmash)
Sadly, we seem to consistently have recording equipment failure every time Chip is playing. It's something of a running WA joke by now. The universe is opposed to getting videos of him online, hence why it's so hard to find decent videos of him. LOL
I'll look through my PC and see if I can find any recorded vids I haven't uploaded.
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
Thanks a lot Praxis. Thats really nice of you. ^_^
I really appreciate it, with the lack of Chip vids lol.
I feel bad for taking away from the discussion though. >_>
But not many TL's have Peach experience, so oh well. =P
I really appreciate it, with the lack of Chip vids lol.
I feel bad for taking away from the discussion though. >_>
But not many TL's have Peach experience, so oh well. =P
I found one vid and uploaded it. Here ya go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XU8Hw4rxBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XU8Hw4rxBA
Santi
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,931
Good stuff Praxis.
I think out of all our other character matchups, you're the one that has contributed the most out of the other characters. I think Lvl. 99 has helped us alot too.
Anyways thanks for all the advice and your knowledge on the matchup. And ofcourse the videos.
Chip doesn't contribute at all on these boards or the backroom so thanks for helping out.
I think out of all our other character matchups, you're the one that has contributed the most out of the other characters. I think Lvl. 99 has helped us alot too.
Anyways thanks for all the advice and your knowledge on the matchup. And ofcourse the videos.
Chip doesn't contribute at all on these boards or the backroom so thanks for helping out.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
TL definetely has a little advantage on peach. I say 55:45 TL or even. BTW the other TL matchup threads are outdated vietG and i feel like we should discuss them again. thanks praxis for ur help. Im not writing anything because u people have said everything already and i dont feel like reposting it.
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
Every discussion thread becomes outdated after a while.
Might as well finish all the charecter discussions then continue onto the old ones.
No doubt were going to go back to the old ones though (if we ever finish all of the characters =/).
Might as well finish all the charecter discussions then continue onto the old ones.
No doubt were going to go back to the old ones though (if we ever finish all of the characters =/).
D
Deleted member
Guest
Spacing fairs in this matchup is nice too, i like it.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
lftenjamin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1
A little old, but no one recommends dsmashing.
Yea it usually isn't good against a Peach, but if you get an opening near an edge, and you use it, the knock down and back is enough the sometimes Peach cant umbrella back up. (I'm sure most of the folks here knew this though, thought I could contribute. )
Not saying this happens all the time, but it is a nice way to get a cheap KO.
Yea it usually isn't good against a Peach, but if you get an opening near an edge, and you use it, the knock down and back is enough the sometimes Peach cant umbrella back up. (I'm sure most of the folks here knew this though, thought I could contribute.
)Not saying this happens all the time, but it is a nice way to get a cheap KO.
Artmastercorey
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 429
i feel like peach is much harder /better than meta knight. Seems like whenever you attack her she attacks you right away, like she doesnt get hit stun or something. Plus like someone mentioned, its very hard to shield grab a peach, everything she does is so fast and powerful. Those turnips are way too powerful in my opinion, i think sukurai made her too strong/quick/ plus have great range . Atleast her recovery isnt great, but thats really about it.
Artmastercorey
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 429
yeah hard to get any good air attacks in, its not like shes really bad to face (although she is) its just that shes so fast so it seems like she doesnt have hitstun because i get punished for attacking her lol, i guess thats why everybody says spam her and run and attack when u get an opening. I seriously cant do anything we normaly do with her otherwise against a great peach player. Zair to nair rarely works cuz you get the zair but for some reason she can attack before i nair lol, whats up with sakurai and making characters that dont lag but are super strong too lol man. The characters in this game are wacky unbalanced. Still its a fun challenge : )
Silver Swordsman
Smash Apprentice
lol Peach isn't nearly as bad as MK, it's not even close. She takes a lot of work to use effectively... and even then, she has problems.
If you space well and play smart with projectiles, she isn't too bad. Other than her fair, you have more range than her. She can combo you till around 50% but afterwards it's hard for her to rack up damage, and even harder to kill you. Meanwhile, you can always poke and chip in extra damage, and you're way better at killing than she is. If nothing you're doing is working it's because you're either doing it incorrectly or they're reading everything you do
If you space well and play smart with projectiles, she isn't too bad. Other than her fair, you have more range than her. She can combo you till around 50% but afterwards it's hard for her to rack up damage, and even harder to kill you. Meanwhile, you can always poke and chip in extra damage, and you're way better at killing than she is. If nothing you're doing is working it's because you're either doing it incorrectly or they're reading everything you do
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
I played a good peach a couple tourneys ago, and we went dead even through two matches. Then third match she pulls out a beam sword TWICE. but anyway, zair -> nair doesn't seem to work on her that much. She can cancel her fair into a jab so don't drop your shield. Projectiles will stop her if you get her offstage, but onstage they aren't as effective bc of her turnips
Ashraf23
Smash Apprentice
We can rip through her turnips with zair and cancel them out with boomerang and arrows. Bomb will just explode and they will both disappear.
When they are gliding low across the floor the will usually approach with a turnip and hit with an aerial (mostly Fair). So always get ready to zair. Another thing that is helpful is keeping them at distance. As soon as they get ready to glide and approach, move back and SHDA. The first arrow will knock the to the floor and the second will connect too.
Both on floor I think Toon also has some good adv. Peach doesn't really have anything noticable that can stop a well spaced Nair. However, you will find Dsmash not much use in this match up since the are constantly in the air or gliding.
Overall I would actually gice the adv. to TL:
55:45 switched compared to what we initially had, in tls favor
When they are gliding low across the floor the will usually approach with a turnip and hit with an aerial (mostly Fair). So always get ready to zair. Another thing that is helpful is keeping them at distance. As soon as they get ready to glide and approach, move back and SHDA. The first arrow will knock the to the floor and the second will connect too.
Both on floor I think Toon also has some good adv. Peach doesn't really have anything noticable that can stop a well spaced Nair. However, you will find Dsmash not much use in this match up since the are constantly in the air or gliding.
Overall I would actually gice the adv. to TL:
55:45 switched compared to what we initially had, in tls favor
Artmastercorey
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 429
I still think peach might have the advantage in this matchup, I usually get toaded after awhile even with zair, and zair to nair works but not much if they know your moves after playing alittle. Small stages where u cant escape much like battlefield seems like your just *****. And how the heck do you shield grab her lol you get punished for trying to punish HER mistakes. I might not have played any good meta knights yet, but for me, its pit and peach that are one of the hardest O_O
Ashraf23
Smash Apprentice
lol dont ever roll will tl. that crap is garbage lol. Just space them out with zair and hit them with projectiles when there in the airI don't know anything about this matchup. The only thing I've heard is for once we're supposed to roll. Out of Peach's 100% dair combos...eh Kosmos ***** me so hard.
