Toon Link's Match-up Discussion #16: Pikachu

I think this is in Pikachu's favor, because Toon Link has no Ground-type attacks. Further, Toon Link is the Hero of Winds, and Electric attacks are Super Effective against Flying type.

Can you counter-pick Geodude?

This goes definetly in Toon Links favor.
When I'm up against Pikachu I usually play offensively, but still keeping the space. You just have to rack up damage and watch out for his thunder jolt / godly edgegaurd (thundergaurd).

He's pretty light which makes it good for us.

Anyways, just projectile spam and keep him on the defensive and everything should go swell against Pikachu.

i'd say toon link favor, his jolts arent that annoying vs toon link , if they are just spam him back . One his of greatest moves d-smash easily escapable with di . Those qac can get annoying though .

Pikachu's pros:
*Quick attack cancel approach (which limits camping's usefulness to an extent)
*Thunderguarding
*Fast auto cancellable aerials
*Better recovery
*A spammable projectile that can be used as an approach.
*Fair autocancels and if not autocancelled it combos into dsmash and usmash.
*Quick attack cancel is annoying lol.

Toon Link's pros:
*Disjointed hitbox.
*Has an easier time killing pikachu than pika can kill him.
*zair combos on pika and cancels his neutralb.
*Does not get CG'd by pika because of his floatiness.
*Faster damage racking.

I say TL has the advantage although i may be completely wrong. 55:45 or 60:40 TL.

TL vs Pika!

What a good TL will need to keep in mind when fighting a Pikachu is that TL has better spacing options.
Use your projectiles CONSTANTLY, especially when approaching. This will hinder Pikachu's approaches, as well as his QAC.
Pikachu can juggle TL well despite his floatyness. Keep moving all the time and space with each swing of your sword to avoid the fair/grab combos.
On the ground, you'll lose at point blank range so keep a medium distance and spam projectiles. In the air, your sword will outrange Pikachu's aerials so taking the battle to the air is never a bad idea.
If Pikachu starts abusing thunderjolt, take to the air and throw your own projectiles at him.
Pikachu is able to escape the bair chain better than most characters due to his own floatyness.
Don't use your dair unless you are close to Pikachu and you know it will hit, because Thunder>TL's dair.
Pikachu does not have too much trouble edgeguarding TL if he knows how to use that thunder, and TL's best choice in edgeguarding Pikachu is to jump off-stage with projectiles first and then following up with rapid fairs/bairs.

All in all, both characters have tools at their disposal but more of Pikachu's tools can be neutralized in this match-up so I'd have to call it 55/45 Toon Link.

First of all, check this out.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204344

5ive said:

First of all, check this out.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204344

Click to expand...

I've actually seen that. This is exactly what makes Pikachu fun.

But yah, if you guys haven't seen that yet listen to this man. It'll definitely show you what to expect from a good Chu.

Jab his QAC.Up-B it even if you don't have timing.If you see Pikachu freeze in the air at the start of the quick attack, just get ready to use Ftilt or U tilt or somethin.

Zair or Nair if you think hes going to use Fair (at low percents). Use Fair to kill him at high percents.

Learn to tech stage spikes from thunder.

Don't bother using a kill move if its not going to kill him on the spot.

Don't underestimate Pikachu's recovery. Ever. He can QAC our of it if hes close to the level.

Smash DI his Dsmash (no durrr).

His Dair and Nair are his only "heavy hitting" aerials, DI them Up.



More later maybe.

Bombs are more effective then Tl's other projectiles cause Pika can't cancel your bombs. Arrows and Boomerang can be canceled by thunder jolt and aerials.

His throws can be used to set you up but his grab animation is pretty easy to see coming. Also, his running grab doesn't last very long, it actually starts and ends right around when he dives. His standing grab has more effect frames but, because he's not moving when he does it, it has much less range.

TL's greatest fear from Sparky is definitely his d-smash. It pwns you pretty hard even with DI.

5 damage, and giving Toon Link and advantageous position, isn't really pwning.

I can help here!


TLink vs Pika is 55:45 in T.Links favor

cause his options out range most of pikas...

but that doesnt mean pika has a huge diadvantage...

listen to what 5ive has to say for details...

If Anather pops up hes really good too...

even mister E

Dear Toon Links:

My brother (Arc) and I (LDPK) have been eternal (sort of) rivals. He mains toon link and I main pika.

We have "REALLY OLD" videos of us battling on youtube. I barely won on those, but literally its almost like 60:40 to 50:50 depending on which of us are having a "good week." The stats may not be accurate because its between two heavy mainers of each character.

However the things we hate about each other are:

Pika (me) hates TL (my brother) because.....

1)BOMBS! QaC attack of any kind will not be able to punish TL while he's holding (about to neutral drop) a bomb. My brother likes to hold bombs and drop-aerial-catch them to keep himself safe from any big combo that pikachu can pull off--at the same time while still being able to attack. Bombs go through t-jolts. Bombs will always trade hits if it lands (exception: thunder), thus, messing up combos. If my brother is "in the zone" with bombs, TL is virtually un-combo-able. TL can f-smash with bombs (hold A for a bit), use any aerial while catchin bombs, z-air with bombs, and still grab with bombs.

solution for pika's: The only (killing) approaches I can do consistently against TL bomb-masters is run close > roll/spotdodge (against grab) > out-of-shield n-air/u-air (if he drops bomb it will bounce on shield first). Bomb-regrab tricks only work off of (pika's) shield or shortly after the apex of TL's jump (abuse TL while he is rising up and when he's already been falling for a while). Of course, a pikachu can wait til bomb explodes, but a TL should be able to compensate.

2) TL's annoyingly slow projectiles and up-B. Because of this, edgeguarding against GOOD TL's with pika is VERY ANNOYING. Arrows and boomerangs go through thunder, so if the TL's a good sniper thundergaurds are less scary. Boomerangs can just be thrown in the relative vicinity of where pikachus want to edgeguard, and because it is SO BIG and SO SLOW it can throw off pikachu's edgeguard placement. Any other edgeguards can be drastically lessened in effectivity with good DI/bombplay/swordplay/z-airs. Edge Gimping TL by pikachus are somewhat harder b/c of TL's spiking last hit of up-B and his ridiculous floatiness and side DI.

Solution for pika's: 1) thunderguard beats most swordplay/bombplay; 2) boomerang screws up most thunderguard; 3) N-air/d-air guards cancel and pass through Boomerang to hit TL; 4) swordplay/bombplay beats most of pika's aerial guards. So its like rock-paper-scissors.... sort of. Who can mindgame who better? Also, TL still only has one 2nd jump.... pika's should abuse this (while remembering the bombs)!

3)TL's D-air; for pika's that love to spam u-airs.... beware. Pika's u-air is a favorite amongst 'chu's: it has a wide hitbox, leads to combos, and best of all... its faster than MK's d-air (WOOT! :D). However, should u-air hitbox and TL's d-air hitbox meet at the same time, D-air will always (or most of the time) win. This is not an absolute counter b/c d-air will lag and can be punished, but it will get most pika's concerned and thinkin whenever their u-air's been countered about 3 times in a row. Against newb pika's that still think TL can be easily chaingrabbed or grab/throw-tech-chased, d-airs sweetspot most of pika's tech-grab followups--discouraging some pikachu's in their grab-game. TL's d-air is mostly for mindgames.

solution for pika's: don't challenge the d-air, challenge TL after his sword is stuck in the ground

4) TL's hi-priority killing moves (f-air, u-air, u-smash, possibly f/d-smash) can be done after bomb-setup (also boomerang returns!) in which pika's who DI wrong won't be able to initiate QaC fast enough to dodge 'em.

solution: Don't take TL's projectile spam for granted or it'll get you killed, much like how pikachu's projectiles work.

5) n/b-air > Quickdraws DRASTICALLY messes pikachu's closerange-midrange ground game if TL executes them defensively. Pika's shields would be wearing down without powershielding, and TL's grab punishes an anticipated powershield.

Solution: bait the quickdraw or other laggy TL moves, punish after.

Overall impression:
-Biggest advantages of both sides (assuming its between a good TL and Pikachu) is just lack of knowledge of the other char's floatiness, movesets, and tricks. >>>the one who knows more has the advantage.
-TL's priority in aerials and smashes is balanced by TL's lag on some moves and specific pika-moves, projectiles, and speed.
-Both have annoying as heck projectile games and follow ups

Matchup:

my experience-wise > 50:50 honestly, give or take skill-difference
moveset priority-wise > 55/60:40/45 in toon Link's favor
Gimping-ability-wise > 45:55 in pika's favor

Anyway... (WOW I wrote a LOT! sorry guys....) I hope this helps. I'll try to post more recent vids of me against my brother on youtube.

Sincerely,
Legendary Pikachu, LDPK, still a fledgeling smashboards'er

PS. Mister E. had the change to face my lil bro's Toon Link. He'll know stuff too and probably post more.

LDPK, your lil bro was pwning me with Toon Link. Due to his projectiles I had no idea how to approach. But I have learned since then.
Definitely spam projectiles against Pikachu. Bombs more than anything.

Excellent job LDPK. Figures you'd be the one to have the best response for this match-up.

I had this feeling someone was talking about me... Anyways. I'd have to say the match up is 50:50. Pikachu's one spammable projectile is enough to deal with when using toon link. The most problems I had was a pkiachu (LDPK) grabbing me once I pulled out a bomb or running into my bombs on purpose to get me hurt. As toon link, I have to really set up my combos right. Of course, using the z-air would be a good approach, but I find that toon link is really weak against rollers when advancing. In this case, you would use the spin attack when people try to get your back. Pikachu isn't easily comboed with the back air so I try to avoid that. Anyways, it's just a game of foresight pretty much. Any mistake on either part would cost the game. I like using bombs because they somewhat give me a trump card advantage. They have never failed me yet :3

Arc.

~Soon to be recognized Toon Link

did you sneeze?

No he didn't.... at least i didn't see it... lol ;P

Hope the information helps!

Sincerely,
LDPK, still a fledgling smashboards'er

No, I didn't sneeze XD