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Pit Matchup Discussion - Diddy Kong

Coffee™

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The other DK

Diddy Kong



Pros and Cons Of Diddy Kong .

Code:
[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Pros[/COLOR][/B]

Pros:

[SIZE="4"]- NANERZ!!![/SIZE]
- Fast and nimble 
- Two Projectiles
- Good Aerials
- Reliable Spike
- Combos easy to string together 
- Bananas can easily turn the tide in a match
- Diddy can Wall Jump and Wall Cling
- Excellent grab range
Code:
[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Cons[/COLOR][/B]

Cons:
- Bananas can be used against you 
- Peanut Popgun attack not very effective 
- Low Weight
- Up+B is difficult to use at times for recovery 
- Neutral A-Combo isn't very useful
Monkeys and Angels...

Discuss!!!
 

PK Webb

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Out camp him since he can usually beat u in melee attacks. Once he is off stage arrows work beautiful for gimping his recovery. Stay away from a banana fight diddy kong can pick them up a.lot easier than pit can. If ur good enough and ur arrows aren't hitting him while he is off stage the mirror shield works too...those are my two cents
 

Admiral Pit

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NANERS NANERS NANERS! *Calms down* Apparently the better Diddys will rely on their little Naners for victory, and I mean they will. Some noob Diddys will use Naners too but will use em badly compared to good chimps. Sometimes you can just pick em up and use em against them, but sometimes a Diddy might be too fast with his glidetoss.
To try to stop em, you should try to resort to using your relector so that if a Diddy makes the mistake of throwing a naner at you, it becomes yours though he can quickly dash and pick it up, or ledgecamp the chimp. Use arrows to your advantage, but dont leave yourself open to getting tripped by a naner.

I actually believe Pit isnt outranged by this chimp.
Do watch out for D-air spikes. It comes out fast.

As for his recovery, it's not completely limited, but it can still be surpressed. If Diddy is charging up his Up-B, depending on where he is, take the following action:
-If he's close and you want to attack, try to in order to knock him outta up-B and he probably wont be able to get back up
-You could shoot arrows at Up-B to avoid that random jetpack thing from hitting you, or you'd be far enough to know to dodge it if it actually goes after you.
-Carefully and time an edgehog. If it goes well, Diddy will fly towards the stage, jetpack will blow up and he falls to his death. Time it wrong and you'll be the one to get hurt.


Diddy's method of stopping our recovery is occasionally by Peanut gun, but they usually would go for either B-air or F-air, or the D-air spike. Sometime a Diddy might carry a Naner to throw at you. Try to avoid it.
 

Coffee™

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Diddy is pretty annoying to face but Pit does have some great tools to hamper his game. AR and MShield reflect bananas and in conjuction with arrows can really mess up his momentum and as we all know Diddy is almost entirely about getting some momentum going.

Diddy also has a pretty big problem with Pit's Ledgecamping. Forward posted a little while ago with some vids against Alphazealot's Diddy that seem pretty useful in showing how you should play against Diddy. I've listed them below in case anyone wants to take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlG2DJPvino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zWUZitPo8o&feature=related
 

Lenus Altair

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I would try to minimize rolling in general, particularly when the bananas get out...

Diddy is particularly annoying, and can kill more effectively then pit I think. Banana locks are a bane to any player and surely aid him in comboing you to a finisher. Be prepared to reflect his bananas if he actually decides to throw them straight out you, but more importantly space your reflects. Mirror sheild has ending lag, and diddy is fast enough to dash grab if you space poorly. Angel ring has a similar problem, but of course is an attack as well, so generally I would use mirror sheild at a fair distance and angel ring if the attack would connect (if at all). Nair can catch bananas sometimes.

Rule Diddys world once he off the stage. Gimp him with arrows or chase if you feel up to it, but watch for the spike. Also ledge camp him.

If your the one recovering, watch for banana throws, spikes, and peanut gun spam. For the most part these can be judged based on their arc.

Im not sure what else to say at this point, other then to look into diddy ATs as he can be a pretty technical character too with the use of bananas, barrel canceling, etc...

As for who would have an advatage if anyone, no idea :).
 

Kyuubi9t

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I tend to glide alot in this match-up, diddy cant do much about it and bananas on the ground are no problem when attacking this way.

I dont have time right now but later when i get to it i will contribute more to this discussion
 

yummynbeefy

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i usually dont have too much of a problem with diddy kongs, when they drop a banana all i do is wingdash over it, pick it up and use it agenst him

i can practically **** people with arrows so if hes off the stage hes dead

id say anywhere from 50-50 to 60-40 i feel like pits at a slight edge
 

ADHD

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I ***** rogue pit in a tourney match and money match. GLOAT GLOAT. His pit was good, the thing is that you can't rely on your reflectors much, they're almost next to useless against diddy. A good diddy will know their way around the reflectors from any character. It's no more than 55-45 in pits favor IMO. Diddy is better in the air, and on the ground all pit can do is play a defensive, campy game. The best thing pit can do is get diddy above you, it makes him very vunerable against a pit. Pit's glide toss is good, but save it for when you need the spacing, just don't use it for when you get a banana in your hand. Arrows are very annoying, but it's not like they drastically change the matchup, I can just avoid them but it does make the matchup take longer and require more patience. Pit's reflectors on average should reflect a banana at most twice an entire 3 stock match. So I don't know much about pit, but this is the best I can give you. Diddy forces pit to play very defensive and campy and rely on diddy approaching him.
 

Player-1

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It's been a while since I played a Pit(electroSUN's)so I can't remember a whole lot about Pit so excuse me if I say something ignorant.

Pit has a better staged airgame, and when I say that I mean his SH aerials are MUCH better than Diddy's but off stage air game Diddy has got it better IMO. The Up-B Pit has moves people when activated, correct? That can screw a Diddy players barrels when recovering. Pit is pretty easy to gimp once you get his multiple mid air jumps out of the way which isn't too hard, but not easy. It's pretty even match-up IMO but I'd say 55-45 diddy's favor. Also, the popgun is very effective. I hate it when people say that popgun isn't effective. Great for that gimp on Pit when he starts his up-b, helps edgeguard Pit when he glides.
 

Afropony

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I find the key to beating Diddy is getting the bananas and using them against him, shielding the banana if it is thrown to you and grabbing when it bounces off your shield. Wing dashing over bananas also works well.

Diddy is a pressure character, but he relies on the bananas. You have to try and pressure him instead of let him pressure you, camping seems to work fairly well if you feel the need to retreat.

When he's off stage Pit's arrows work very well to eat his jump and push him down when he tries to use his UpB. Dsmash would be a good move if you're trying to get him off the edge because it sends him quite low making it more likely for him to have to use his UpB. Soft Bairs also work well to push Diddy lower when he is trying to recover.
When we're off stage Diddy may try to shoot you out of your glide with peanuts, this isn't very hard to dodge if you're decent at gliding and you can usually go under stage. If a Diddy jumps off the stage to edgeguard you he will probably be aiming to hit you with a Fair or Dair, this shouldn't be to hard to airdodge. If the Diddy is feeling adventurous he may use his "monkey flip" to grab onto you and then jump off leaving you to die.

Diddy will always try to have his bananas out at all times so give it your best to use them against him. This will slow the Diddy down much more and if you do it multiple times he may think about not using bananas to often (if this happens you're probably not playing a very good Diddy). If you do have the bananas don't glidetoss just because you can, it's pointless! Use it for spacing when necessary.

For stages I would probably counterpick with Norfair, If that was banned maybe Lylat or Rainbow cruise because of the bananas.
 

Hayang

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As with peach and turnips, be careful when you shield diddy's glidetossed naners because often they will hope you shield and then grab you.
 

Coffee™

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55:45? <----------- yes this is me bumping random threads which noone posts in.
 

Rogue Pit

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Just played a good diddy, comparable to Ninjalink, a few minutes ago. Basically your gonna be under a lot of pressure in this match. You have to adapt to their style pretty fast. Mess them up with AR‘ing their naners and tech chase like a cybor. He has faster aerial movements, so be careful alot. He lacks killing ability so dont run into fsmash. Also becareful with your corner smash DI on his fsmash.

Basically most Diddys are all bananas reflect some and take the offence, also juggling the bananas are good, fight him melee and you outrange him.
Also when u grab a banana some diddy do their upb so if u hit them the barrel can kill you. If u see that happen, let them blast up, look dumb and land a free bair or fsmash.
Also arrow spam him offstage

Stage info: Ban FD, apparently they like it. Also Yoshi‘s isnt really a good idea.
You both should equally dislike Lylat.
Counter stages such the following.
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Luigi‘s mansion and tech every hit, camp inside, and refresh your moves with timed jabs on the pillar.
Brinstar was good for me, you can shark and the stage messes up banana movements.
Probably Rainbow Cruise due to fact that its always on the moves and his bananas cant keep up.

Edit: Wow thats alot
Edit 2: meh not really
 

NinjaLink

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^^ heh. Sounds like the common anti diddy stuff. Sadly it doesnt really work all the time. Not against smart ones. I'll go in depth later if needed.
 

SSD

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I play against a diddy user quiet often.
1. ban fd. if you don't, you'd better hope you can outplay him.
2. reflectors....no. Well, MAYBE. Pit's are a bit slow to use on reaction, and there is enough endlag that they can wait for it to drop(I don't think pit can hold AR out forever...) and get a free banana hit.
3. chasing him off the edge is great, but watch out for the sideB. he can meteor smash you with it and pit can't meteor cancel(dur) so either use arrows or wait for him to use the flip before you jump out to smack him.
4. You can grab the peels, if you want. I guess.
 

Son1x-

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About 3rd one. "such as Pit whose Up Special and jumps cannot be used to meteor cancel. " I found this on smashwiki, is it true?
 

SSD

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About 3rd one. "such as Pit whose Up Special and jumps cannot be used to meteor cancel. " I found this on smashwiki, is it true?
From my experience, yes. Might have to do with how the upB causes you to drop for a bit once you use it(unless you do it at the same time as a jump). Jumps...not sure. Is it that way for ALL multi-jump characters?
 

KY_Des

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Pit's weak to spikes. If you're 70+ you're most likely not getting back. Bananas can actually slide under the MS sometimes. If you throw a banana back at Diddy, he's actually fast enough to jump, catch it, and throw it back at you before he hits the ground again. It's pretty gay. I normally just throw them up so he can't get a hold of it for a couple seconds. Sometimes I glide toss for better positioning.

Normally shooting arrows and then edgehogging is the easiest way to gimp Diddy. Diddy's side b makes that difficult tho. You can also MS his Up B. Unfortunately since Diddy can charge his up b, it's hard to get the angle and timing correct.

I'd say this matchup is 60:40 Diddy's favor.
 

Coffee™

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Nanerz, Nanerz, Nanerz!!!

Diddy Kong sometimes considered the “other” monkey is capable of turning around the course of a game in a heartbeat in a mixed flurry of fur and bananas. This matchup isn’t bad for Pit but it isn’t easy enough that you can be complacent and hope to win with no effort.

First lets a take a look at the main tool in Diddy’s game, his self produced item, the banana peel. Arguably the most annoying projectile in the game, Diddy Kong’s banana peels cause the opponent to trip whether Diddy directly throws them into an opponent or if you run over them while they are on the ground allowing Diddy Kong to follow up with either an attack of his choice or a grab. His ability to lay down two banana peels at once also gives him great stage control and enables him to shut down opponents who prefer to approach on the ground. However, bananas that hit an opponent while he is in the air will only cause damage and won’t have any adverse effects such as tripping. With that in mind, and an angel at your disposal you should know by the time I finish this sentence that you’re going to generally want to take this fight to the sky. However, that doesn’t mean you’re totally helpless on the ground, in fact you’re not really at as large as a disadvantage as you might think here.

Diddy’s ground game is mostly centered around his bananas and the ability to compile a large amount of damage in a short amount of time as long as the momentum of the match swings his way, conversely Pit has a number of ways with which he can interrupt Diddy’s momentum bringing the tempo of the game down to a level that you’ll be more comfortable with. Angel Ring and Palutena’s Arrow are going to be your main tools in disrupting Diddy’s momentum, each with its own significant purpose in the matchup. As you should know, Pit has two reflectors, the previously mentioned Angel Ring and the Mirror Shield, each with its own specific differences from the other. Ideally in this matchup you’re going to want to use the Angel Ring to reflect Diddy’s bananas as the lunge forward as well as well as the larger reflecting surface, really aid more in disrupting Diddy’s flow than the stationary Mirror Shield, which although can be useful at opportune times can result in an easily baited punishment from a smart player. Palutena’s Arrow is also ideal for limiting Diddy’s banana approach from a distance and even in relatively close areas can prevent Diddy from following up with an attack string or a grab.

With Pit limiting Diddy’s ground game somewhat as well as generally staying airborne during the course of the match Diddy will look to take the fight to the air and the chimp is no slouch in the aerial department and is quite capable of taking out an unprepared Pit. However you do generally outclass Diddy in this part of combat and with some smart playing you should come out on top most of the time. It should be noted that most Diddy’s actually combo into their aerials though their dash attack however, Pit’s Dtilt and SH Dair can easily punish a Diddy that decides to get dash happy. Back on the subject of aerials, versus a Diddy the main aerial attacks you’re going to be looking out for are his Fair and Bair, but Diddy’s won’t miss out on a possible chance to spike you with their Dair so that is something you should always keep in mind when offstage. Ideally you are going to want to either get over or under Diddy where you can either use your Dair to pop him into the air or your Uair to rack up damage but Fair, Bair and Nair all useful here with Fair having the potential of gimping Diddy and Bair capable of killing Diddy at relatively low percentages, while Nair as always being a decent move for racking up damage. SH Nair also doubles as a relatively easy way to pick bananas that are on the ground as well as bananas falling in the air. Wingdashing over banana peels also allow you to pick them up, so that’s one more thing to keep in mind.

As far as gimping is concerned it’s not going to be particularly easy for you to gimp Diddy as he has a fairly versatile recovery encompassing both his Side B and Up B. Diddy’s mostly recover using their Side B and only really use their Up B is necessary, however, if you do manage to force a Diddy to use his Up B then you have the option of gimping him with either your arrows or with any attack as either will force his rocket barrels to detach and most likely lose a stock, even throwing one of Diddy’s own bananas work, but keep in mind the rocket barrels can fly at you and have ko potential, so they should be avoided. On Diddy’s side it isn’t as hard as it is for most characters to gimp Pit but if a Diddy does somehow force you to use up all of your jumps as well as your glide and you have to rely on your WOI to recovery you should note than an aerial, a peanut from his peanut pop gun or simply a throw banana can spell doom for you in this state so if so take care to be especially careful against a Diddy in forced into this situation.

In the end, Diddy is a very momentum based character and allowing an opposing Diddy to get good momentum is not going to be a pretty picture for you. However, Pit has a fair amount of tools with which he can prevent Diddy from gaining momentum as well as bringing slowing down or even stopping him from gaining much momentum at all. This matchup isn’t extremely difficult nor is it a tremendously easy match, but stay on your toes, or rather in the air and you should be able to win this one without too much of a hassle.
Ok, sorry this summary took so long, but here it is. As for a matchup ratio i'm thinking of placing it as 60:40 in Pits favor for reasons i've listed in the summary as well as after talking to some other Pit players. There is also a matchup number in one of the Diddy threads listing the matchup as 60:40 in Pit's favor, but I don't know if their opinions have changed since that thread was made.

So feel free to comment. I will add this summary to the Matchup Thread in one day so you can discuss what you feel about what should be listed as a matchup ratio. If a general consensus isn't reached by then I will upload the summary and the 60:40 ratio until one is reached.
 

Sars_Pirate

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I play with Le Thien a lot, so I'll just poke my head in to offer these two tidbits of information.

1) I think the matchup is in Pit's favor, anyone who knows the Diddy matchup will be able to avoid gimps, it's not difficult to DI safely away from them, and it's not difficult to prepare yourself. I really do think Diddy has a harder time taking early percentage kills than vice versa, but hey, I'm new to the guy.

2) Pit can limit Diddy's banana game fairly well, and even if you can't you should be familiar with. If you're actively trying to MS bananas the instant they come at you, you'll lose out. The trick is really just to understand that Diddy's approach game is linear, and reading when bananas will be thrown are you is pretty obvious.

3) Your aerial game is superior to his, it's his ground game that you should worry about, but if you can limit bananas, a Diddy that plays without bananas is simple and one dimensional and a non-threat.

4) Stages. Someone said before that FD and YS should be banned, I disagree. YS seems to limit the use of bananas naturally just because of that huge middle platform where the bananas eventually all go to, and since it angles up and down randomly, the chances of you slipping with the banana above you is limited. As for FD, it's a good Diddy stage, but Diddy has a huge problem that can be exploited there: killing power. If you get away from the gimps, you face a Diddy that's forced to kill via edgeguarding, f-smashes, or d-smashes. They're strong moves, but if you DI properly, you'll live well into the 150 range. FD is huge, it'll allow your character to outlast Diddy, and the length of it allows for more arrow spamming. Honestly, I think that Smashville (especially) and even Battlefield are better Diddy stages, but yeah. Just keep those factors in mind.
 
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