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ZSS.. Now with 0-death combo !

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
I experimented with ZSS the other day and found a few cool combos.

I noticed that both her Ftilt and dash attack has lock capabilities and forced getup capabilities at low %'s

If your opponent fail to tech/roll after the Bthrow (or any other setup), the following attacks
are 100% garanteed.

Video:
"Zero stepping"

Yea.. this is very situational; still pretty cool though ; )
 

Sesshomuronay

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,458
Location
Canada, British Columbia
Wow that seems pretty kool. Have you tried it against human players? Did they try everything they could to get out of it? If it does happen to work which characters does it work on?

It seems pretty kool tho and ZSS might have some good stuff for f-tilts.
 

Yankee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
135
Wow, now only if ZSS had a 0-death combo! That would be something.
Kidding aside, that looks pretty awesome. Hopefully it works against humans.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
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Sweden
Wow that seems pretty kool. Have you tried it against human players? Did they try everything they could to get out of it?
If they fail to tech/roll efter the first hit they can't do **** if the input and timing is correct.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
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but it looks like it only works if your opponent happens to forget to push a button on their controller when thrown backwards. it seems kinda unlikely to me...
Basically, it's a way to punish a missed tech. You can say that people won't be missing techs ever, but that would be a lie.
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
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NS, Canada
Awesome, I was wondering if ftilt actually had that property. Good find.

I kinda figured dash attack did, but I knew that could never been a lock.
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
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If they DO manage to tech it, you still have enough time to tech chase them and try it again right?

Or does Bair not send them the right distance the second throw?
 

Snakeee

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
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Location
Staten Island, NY
This doesn't have to be with a b-throw , the point is that the downwards f-tilt can lock. I can't believe I didn't take notice of that before, but nice find :)
 

LordMars

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
22
Wow, that's sweet, nice find,
gonna put this in my game for sure, never been a fan of grabs, till now :)
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1,370
Location
California
Her jab combo can lead into a dash attack for a forced get-up at mid percents, too. It seems you can't really ftilt lock them then, though. I guess you can still go for dsmash to whatever.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
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Messages
5,523
Location
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Thx for the kind replies everyone, glad you liked it : )

As far as I can tell, it's easiest to perform against heavys.
 

MdrnDayMercutio

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
2,354
Location
Western Mass
I could be wrong but it looks like the only way to survive that is to, DI toward the stage and make the tech.

That combo/lock is so very very very nice. Wish I could play ZSS at all now.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
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The best part of this is dsmash Flip Jump at the end. I love it so much.
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
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May 7, 2008
Messages
1,489
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NS, Canada
I can't see it being an infinite because the knockback of the ftilt will increase enough that the char will eventually bounce out. But it could mean quite a bit of damage
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
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Messages
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The Ftilt can't be used for a infinite cause at mid %'s it looses its lock capabilities.
Same goes for the dash attack.

BUT... I don't know about the late/weak hit of dash attack. haven't tried it yet.
Its lock capabilities may work at higher %'s .
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
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unfortunately the b-throw setup is pretty useless... it won't even work on a computer set to attack

does anyone know a good setup for this that will work on humans? If we can find a good in game setup this could be a big deal.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
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Try jabbing Snake at 45% and getting the weak hit of your dash attack. The trajectory is very horizontal and the window for missing a tech is extremely small. You can only either tech or perform a very late air dodge. Jumping and attacking before hitting the ground are impossible.
 

kuenzel

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
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607
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St Catherines, Ontario
If they're falling and would hit the ground in that bouncy way that would allow the lock, I found if you stun them with a plasma shot just before they hit the ground, they get stunned, and still fall and bounce to make the lock possible, but it (theoreticly) screws up their timing to to tech.

Maybe if a player is purposely falling in order to tech when he hits the ground, the small stun can throw him off and set up for a dash-attack lock?
 

WarpStatus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
86
Location
San Jose
As soon as I saw this I started to play around with it because it was so awesome. However, I found out the locks stop working around 30-40% for most characters (or at least the ones i was trying it on). That in itself is going to limit setups to the 0-15% range for us to get much benefit out of it, if at all. With this limiting factor and the fact that we don't really have any set-ups other than b-throw(if for some reason they don't airdodge, attack, or maybe even jump?) means that I don't think we'll really have a use for this technique.

I don't want to denounce this find at all though because I find it simply amazing. There is still room to be quite useful if we find a good set-up.

I haven't tested this on a human player, but assuming we can even get the throw when they are around 0-15% (maybe with a glide toss->throw) it can lead to a significant amount of damage and for some chars a 0 to death if spaced properly so they get dsmashed at the end of the stage as shown in the video. However, as I said before this is only if they don't seem to do anything after that throw. It's a long shot, but I suggest to at least try it for one stock of your opponents stocks, because the payoff is very large if they aren't paying attention.

It doesn't work with tripped opponents, which is unfortunate. It also seems easiest to do on larger characters (d3, snake, bowser).

*edit*
I tested the plasma wire set-up and unfortunately it doesn't work. If at low percents the opponent lands on their feet, and at high percents f-tilt won't lock. It does work if you hit with just the 1st and 2nd hit, if they don't push any buttons and land on the ground. Which is going to be unlikely.
 
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