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close and unstick please

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Veril

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Plank all day, every day.

I won't update this thread and its so far below my current standards that I've decided to take it down.
 

Phampy

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Just a bit of input, I have rested a Meta Knight during his jab before in an in person tournament setting so it's entirely possible.
 

Maniclysane

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This thread, is actually really nice. Too bad it's just Luigi. We should start making threads like this for each character, or start with those matchups and pick up where Chaco left off.

BTW Phampy: What Metaknight uses Jab? I can see one hitting A by accident once, but I don't know if thats enough time to DI into a rest.
 

Glick

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If we can learn how to power sheild to rest consistently without making major mistakes. I can see this making jigglypuff a lot better. It would throw in a ton more skill to playing puff too.
 

Veril

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If we can learn how to power sheild to rest consistently without making major mistakes. I can see this making jigglypuff a lot better. It would throw in a ton more skill to playing puff too.
Interrupting moves with rest takes very precise timing. It is also really cool. Perfect shield to rest works perfectly on certain moves. There is some overlap but certain moves aren't countered by perfect shield but are by overlap interrupts and vice versa.

BTW Phampy: What Metaknight uses Jab? I can see one hitting A by accident once, but I don't know if thats enough time to DI into a rest.
They will use it if you are against a wall.

A bag of cookies for you Veril.
Yum!
 

DJ Kat

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Awesome, I've been waiting for someone to develop this into a thread!
 

Veril

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When this is done I would like it to be stickied. It is a LOT of work and I feel that it is very valuable information to the Jiggs community.

Perfect shield and overlap rest are such godsends to Jigglypuff that we cannot afford to ignore them. Many players are leaving Jiggs because of her... crappiness... and this opens up a new area of the metagame for us to work on and greatly increases the learning curve for Jiggs. While I may be overly optimistic I feel that the ability to counter the majority of Kill moves in the game with a kill move is EXTREMELY important and a fantastic addition to Jiggly's currently sad state.

Think of how devastating Snakes F-tilt is, or Luigi's up-b combo, or shuttle loop, etc. They are all completely counterable.
 

Thinkaman

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Well, people through Luigi would be high tier once everyone started pulling off perfect-shielded dragon punches all the time, and that didn't exactly happen. Still, maybe we can do better.

I think rest out of Snake f-tilt and G&W dair sound the most applicable.
 

Veril

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Well, people through Luigi would be high tier once everyone started pulling off perfect-shielded dragon punches all the time, and that didn't exactly happen. Still, maybe we can do better.

I think rest out of Snake f-tilt and G&W dair sound the most applicable.
Rest comes out in 1 frame. It beats almost every move in the game speedwise. Also because of the invincibility frames it can hit people out of moves that are traveling through Jiggs. Dragon punch doesn't have that. Rest beats out dragon punch in terms of sheer speed and it does not require perfect shielding (this has been tested).

I'm not saying that Jiggs will be high tier... but Luigi isn't low tier.
 

DJ Kat

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Oh, Veril, I'd like to see an example video of this.

'Cause I need to know if the timing is reasonable. >:\
 

Veril

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Oh, Veril, I'd like to see an example video of this.

'Cause I need to know if the timing is reasonable. >:\
The timing is very difficult for perfect rest unless the move is telegraphed in some way. However, for most of the moves listed the timing is possible, only slightly more difficult than a perfect shield. Phantasm and single jabs are almost impossible to perfect rest, while moves like Luigi's side b, ganondorfs... anything, and space animal up-b attacks are very easy. Forward smashes are in between, with each having different timing.

It's doable with lots of practice.

As for a video... uh... I wish I had the equipment. I'm waiting for disposable income lol. Soon. I want to get a video of meteor canceling with zapjump up as well.

Rest assured (AGH Pun) I will have video posted ASAP.

wow, lol i was going to complain that you should put this in landing rest disscussion, but......
this is worth it's own thread. nice research xD
This is too large not to have its own thread. I thought about putting it in the landing rest discussion, and I will contribute to that, but this is my separate endeavor. Thanks for the compliment btw.
 

DJ Kat

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Well, if you could upload the replays, any of us could record them, and send you the raw footage. :\
 

Glick

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I've rested snakes and warios dacus. I've seen people resting rollout consistently. Power sheilding to rest would be totally bad *** if it worked like a parry and counter attack. But of course sakurai would never put in anything so advanced or cool. We have to figure it out ourselves.
 

Veril

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Well, if you could upload the replays, any of us could record them, and send you the raw footage. :\
elaborate... I'm tech illiterate.

I do not have wifi btw.

I've rested snakes and warios dacus. I've seen people resting rollout consistently. Power sheilding to rest would be totally bad *** if it worked like a parry and counter attack. But of course sakurai would never put in anything so advanced or cool. We have to figure it out ourselves.
Perfect shield to rest is fantastic. I mean... that's one of the reasons I'm making this thread. Equally amazing is the fact that Perfect resting effectively lets us perfect (power?) shield in the air and instantly hit with rest.
 

DJ Kat

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Well, if you have an SD card, you can save replays, I'll transfer them to my SD card, record the videos (hoping the Wii doesn't **** up the replay), and I'll send you back the raw movie files for editing.

Wifi would've made it easier on your part. :<


Also, perfecting shielding is HARD to predict T_____T
 

Glick

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Yeah but it adds depth to jigglypuff and it will take more skill to play as her. She can get very boring.
 

Veril

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Well, if you have an SD card, you can save replays, I'll transfer them to my SD card, record the videos (hoping the Wii doesn't **** up the replay), and I'll send you back the raw movie files for editing.
I do have an SD card. Replays are not in a format that I can send though. How does the footage get from point A to point B? Am I missing something? I mean, if this is feasible that would be great.

Also, some of this had to be done in training mode due to my unfamiliarity with the timing, ex. Luigi's jab, phantasm resting, etc. I have no replay of that. I'd rather finish testing the other moves in training mode before trying to get replay footage. This will actually save me a ton of time since I won't have to try stupid nonsense like resting Falco's Up-Smash at 1x speed (it actually is a glancing blow! From rest!).
 

DJ Kat

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Well, all you have to do is:

1) Record the replay to your SD card

2) Put it into an SD card reader (My laptop comes with an SD card slot, but you can use digital cameras or MP3s as a temporary storage and transfer device);

3) go to E:\private\wii\app\RSBE\rp

4) Find your replay (They're all in .bin format, but arrange them by date, and the latest should be the last you recorded)

5) Upload that file to Megaupload, Gigashare, WHATEVER, and I'll download that to my SD card. Everything else, I'll worry about.
 

Veril

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Well, all you have to do is:

1) Record the replay to your SD card

2) Put it into an SD card reader (My laptop comes with an SD card slot, but you can use digital cameras or MP3s as a temporary storage and transfer device);

3) go to E:\private\wii\app\RSBE\rp

4) Find your replay (They're all in .bin format, but arrange them by date, and the latest should be the last you recorded)

5) Upload that file to Megaupload, Gigashare, WHATEVER, and I'll download that to my SD card. Everything else, I'll worry about.
OK. That would be great. I appreciate the help. I can edit the stuff if its in the right format... imovie is very easy to use.

I've got to take a break for a little while (and wait for a friend to come over to help lol). I'll PM you when I upload something (I'll probably start with Luigi since he wrecks Jiggs).
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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thats the problem, but if u get lucky dont hesitate to perfect sheild rest or just rest
Sorry, but your opponent is smart enough to jab or sheild your rest, that can't happen. It dosn't have that much knockback you know. There are some other ways to rest counter that work better.
But I may be wrong. I have not tried this much in a controlled enviorment. I will give it a shot though.
 

Veril

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sorry, but your opponent is smart enough to jab or sheild your rest, that can't happen. It dosn't have that much knockback you know. There are some other ways to rest counter that work better.
But I may be wrong. I have not tried this much in a controlled enviorment. I will give it a shot though.
Wait... are we still talking about yoshi's side-b still? You can rest Yoshi out of that. I've done it in friendlies. I don't even have to test it.


If this is on my general research any method I listed is a combo. The opponent does not have time to put up their shield before you hit them. I don't really care about any method of landing rest that can be perfect shielded.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Wait... are we still talking about yoshi's side-b still? You can rest Yoshi out of that. I've done it in friendlies. I don't even have to test it.


If this is on my general research any method I listed is a combo. The opponent does not have time to put up their shield before you hit them. I don't really care about any method of landing rest that can be perfect shielded.
lolwut?

and yes I also do not like perfect sheild into rest. It dosn't work.
 

Veril

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lolwut?

and yes I also do not like perfect sheild into rest. It dosn't work.
It's like resting someone out of rollout.


Explain, please. What exactly do you mean. Is there some miscommunication here.

Perfect shield to rest works on any move with sufficient lag or forward movement. If you perfect shield you get a punish opportunity. On many moves there is time for a rest. With other moves, notably ones that pass through you, you may not even have to move to land the rest after perfect shielding because the opponent will pass over you.

Perfect rest interrupts a move, thus by default uncounterable.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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It's like resting someone out of rollout.


Explain, please. What exactly do you mean.

Perfect shield to rest works on any move with sufficient lag or forward movement.

Perfect rest interrupts a move, thus by default uncounterable.
yes. Perfect sheild into rest is when you some how perfect sheild an attack, and hop in for a rest as they recover from the lag. This dosn't work unless its boozer's f-smash, or the begining of ddd's f-smash.
 

Tarmogoyf

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yes. Perfect sheild into rest is when you some how perfect sheild an attack, and hop in for a rest as they recover from the lag. This dosn't work unless its boozer's f-smash, or the begining of ddd's f-smash.
there are plenty of other moves this works on. It just takes lots of practice. And really good spacing.
 

Veril

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This dosn't work unless its boozer's f-smash, or the begining of ddd's f-smash.
Not true. If you can't just rest often you can drill rest.

It works on a number of attacks. Obviously you must be close enough to the opponent when they use the attack but often the range is pretty large. Ex. Falco's F-smash.

It's not just super high lag attacks. I never said it was all or even most attacks but there are way more than that.



This is how I know. In testing I checked how long it takes to put up the shield after all attacks. If jiggs can connect with a rest before that point, taking into account my human lag (for Jiggs, holding down L isn't that hard :p), then Perfect shield > rest is a combo.
 

illinialex24

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I tested some stuff and Diddy Kong can be rested between his 1st and second jab if you are grounded, while Yoshi can have the same thing happen if you are in the air. I am going to make a video of these.
 

Veril

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I tested some stuff and Diddy Kong can be rested between his 1st and second jab if you are grounded, while Yoshi can have the same thing happen if you are in the air. I am going to make a video of these.
<3

Thanks. Looks like we beat diddy's jabx2 and jab combo :)

Perfect shield > rest doesn't work at all vs. that though.

Guess I should test Diddy next.
 

Veril

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A lot of this is knowing your options in terms of followups to perfect shield. This is almost more reactive than proactive.

Honestly, I'm not good enough at all of this to pull it off consistently. I'm getting proficient at perfect shield to rest, which mostly is remembering the moves with enough lag, their timing, and the spacing required. SDI into rest is a little tougher, I need a good deal of practice to consistently rest Diddy out of his forward smash. SDI out of a move into rest is definitely doable.

Perfect rest is really tough. I can perfect rest snake out of his mortar slide pretty well as well as any compatible smashes if they are charged. I found out about perfect rest by using it in friendlies (it was a 2v2) on Kirby's forward smash (seriously, if someone charges a smash... the smash would have killed me, I thought if I exploited rests invincibility frames there might be a chance my partner would QAC me out of lag).

Whether this is truly reliable or not is up in the air (much like Jiggs). I believe that at least a sizable portion of this will be usable, especially resting in between hits. Its still very new... "crosses fingers"

I will not have video up till Christmas unless I get really lucky. Sorry. Aside from the lack of equipment, I don't have the critical mass of footage yet.
 
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