A small out of grab release mind game plus fun fact.

Tristan_win · Dec 11, 2008

Got bored, couldn't fall alseep, so I did what I always do, I test.

At first I thought this might be a noteworthy but after experimenting with it a bit farer I realize this wont be anything but semi useful to know…maybe.

Basically on selective characters after they do a ground break from Sheik grab they don’t slide out of jab range.

edit: I forgot to mention that they can just barely get their shield up before the jab connects.

The list is the following

Mario
Link
Kirby
Luigi
Meta knight
Ivysaur
Charizard
**** Nana! Ice climbers
Lucario
Ness
Bowser
Wario no surprise if you grab Wario he’s your *****, jab, grab, or whatever it’s in range
Toon Link
ROB
Olimar

~Bonus discovery~

The lines on Final Destination has mass. In the inner part of the arrows on the sides (and I bet in other areas as well) if you do a grab release after the initial break the escapee will slide up to that line and stop.

Because of this doing such things like force ground break into grab is possible without having you to move but I'm pretty sure they aren’t helpless so don’t be thinking we got a chain grab or something.

Disclaimer: All test were done in Training mode on CPU set to “Control”

Lore · Dec 11, 2008

Sounds pretty cool, although I can't try it right now due to being at school.

Will try as soon as I get home.

Zankoku · Dec 11, 2008

Such a situational trick, but fun to play with once or twice per game. I typically use it as a setup when I'm at low % since I can't be punished too hard if they see it coming.

Blistering Speed · Dec 11, 2008

I was aware of this but I was not aware of the FD lines having mass, that's always nice. It works as a surprise nicely just because of the inherent WTF speed of the Jab.

Tristan don't lie, you didn't test because you couldn't sleep, you couldn't sleep because you weren't testing

Tristan_win · Dec 11, 2008

haha, this only took a hour and thirty+ minutes, Originally I was going to compare the kill % of sheik Horizontal killers if started on the far side of FD on Mario when compared to the vertical ones.I also was thinking about doing some decay testing with the sides of usmash compared to fsmash.

What made me stop was that for almost the whole first hour or so when I was doing this I thought that maybe sheik could jab the escapee before they would be able to raise their shield.

When you hold both shield buttons it looks like sheiks flashes on a split frame sooner after a grab break but when I started apply theory to testing I continuously got power shield. I concluded either the timing is way harsh or that my eyes are pulling tricks on me at 6ish in the morning.

If I was a Lucario user I would sooo look into this, his one frame jab might be able to beat the shield.

Blistering Speed · Dec 11, 2008

Lucario has a one frame jab?! I thought it was just ZSS and Squirtle?

-Mars- · Dec 11, 2008

Sheik has a really good grab release. Just another thing that helps us lead into ftilt setups.

Tristan_win · Dec 11, 2008

Blistering Speed said:
Lucario has a one frame jab?! I thought it was just ZSS and Squirtle?

I recall reading he had one too but that was some time ago.

Zankoku · Dec 11, 2008

Powershield windows are hueg like Xbox. Wolf's jab connects before Sheik's ftilt on a grab release, so I'm guessing it's not really enough to do much with except some mixups.

Tristan_win · Dec 11, 2008

Ankoku said:
Powershield windows are hueg like Xbox. Wolf's jab connects before Sheik's ftilt on a grab release, so I'm guessing it's not really enough to do much with except some mixups.

....I'm not surprise, he does have the frame advantages and Wolf's jab must be fairly long if it can hit the gap between them.

Zankoku · Dec 11, 2008

I forgot to mention that Training Mode is useless for knockback experiments. Peach has a grab release chaingrab on 10 characters in Training Mode that only works on Wario in VS Mode, due to the knockback having no decay and for some odd reason being 5% weaker than full power at all times.

Palpi · Dec 11, 2008

Do all of these set ups work in versus mode as well since testing was done in training?

Tristan_win · Dec 11, 2008

~sighs~ God **** it Ankoku

-,- Thank you for this piece information, I will have to check to see if the results are difference in 1v1 play then.

I will also have to check to see if there is a difference in all of my other threads....all of them

Palpi · Dec 11, 2008

Haha. Poor tristan.

Lore · Dec 11, 2008

Tristan_win said:
~sighs~ God **** it Ankoku

-,- Thank you for this piece information, I will have to check to see if the results are difference in 1v1 play then.

I will also have to check to see if there is a difference in all of my other threads....all of them

that sucks man. Good luck though.

<π · Dec 12, 2008

well at least you don't have to test everything all over again.

Cool mix up at low percents where pshield punishment isn't too costly. I always throw guaranteed % and a set up for potential follow ups.

Flamingo · Dec 12, 2008

This is cool. I wish Sheik did have a CG though.

-Mars- · Dec 12, 2008

Flamingo said:
This is cool. I wish Sheik did have a CG though.

Did you make another account?

SinkingHigher · Dec 12, 2008

Just putting this out there, never had a chance to test it.

Sometimes on WiFi, after I grab someone, say... Marth, I pummel them for a little and let them slide away. During this brief period, I can dash grab and continue the cycle.

From my experience it doesn't seem like a lock, but it's not because they escape from it, it's because I screw it up.

Yay? Nay? Does it work?

-Mars- · Dec 13, 2008

SinkingHigher said:
Just putting this out there, never had a chance to test it.

Sometimes on WiFi, after I grab someone, say... Marth, I pummel them for a little and let them slide away. During this brief period, I can dash grab and continue the cycle.

From my experience it doesn't seem like a lock, but it's not because they escape from it, it's because I screw it up.

Yay? Nay? Does it work?

They could spotdodge, but most players will shield after a ground break on a grab release.....that's why you get another grab. If they catch on to your clever ruse, jab twice to beat the spotdodge and then grab. You can also ftilt off of a ground break which is very useful.

PKNintendo · Dec 14, 2008

Sounds interesting. FD then. But it's not guaranteed right? Unless it's on that area you said on FD right?

Blistering Speed · Dec 14, 2008

No, it's not guaranteed even then, the FD mass lines was *looks at title* errr, a fun fact.

Tristan, for the record I checked and Lucario's jab comes out frame 6, not frame 1 lol.

Tristan_win · Dec 14, 2008

Blistering Speed said:
No, it's not guaranteed even then, the FD mass lines was *looks at title* errr, a fun fact.

Tristan, for the record I checked and Lucario's jab comes out frame 6, not frame 1 lol.

Wait wait what?

There's no fricken way it comes out in 6 frames that would mean it's slower then even Ikes punch.

Zankoku · Dec 14, 2008

Ike's jab is pretty **** fast.

Blistering Speed · Dec 14, 2008

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167767&page=16

It's last 5 or so posts of discussion.

-Mars- · Dec 14, 2008

Tristan_win said:
Wait wait what?

There's no fricken way it comes out in 6 frames that would mean it's slower then even Ikes punch.

Are you serious? Ike has like a 2 frame jab or something. I think you spend too much time on Sheik xD.

edit: it's 3 frames

Tristan_win · Dec 14, 2008

marsulas said:
Are you serious? Ike has like a 2 frame jab or something. I think you spend too much time on Sheik xD.

edit: it's 3 frames

I recall four frames and that's what I base everything on when I fight ike since the ftilt comes out just as fast.

The ikes have it listed as 3-4. I guess back when everyone was getting their frame data for the first time it wasn't very accurate. I clearly remember 1 frame for Lucrio jab even before I knew Zamus's

Times like theses make me wonder if ankoku frame data is 100% correct as I've seen other frame data for sheik with number weren't exactly the same.

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