KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
RECENT UPDATES!
- 01/11/09 - Finished Fsmash (uncharged, sweetspotted, no DI) info for Smashville (THANK YOU, TORNADITH!!!), added Tornadith to list of contributors, edited graphs, added graph for N-air, added "Fresh, Proper DI" list to the OP, edited sections of the OP
- 01/02/09 - Edited list of stages to be tested, edited list of moves to be tested, started experimenting with properly DI'd moves, finished N-air information for FD, started testing Dsmash for FD
- 12/24/08 - Finished Skull Bash information for Final Destination, added notes in spreadsheet to Usmash & Skull Bash, added note to G&W about Bucket Braking, added 4 charts to "The List" section
- 12/22/08 - Added the following data:
NOW TESTING: Dsmash, Final Destination
NEXT UP: Usmash (uncharged, no sweetspot), Final Destination
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THE LISTS
Currently this project is being hosted at Google Docs because it's too much to fit in a post here at SWF. It's convenient because I can put my results directly into the charts as I'm testing, and since Google auto-saves, you will always be getting the most recent versions of the lists down to the minute. Once they are complete, I may save them as a PDF file or something, but for now this is fine.
The (Fresh, No DI) list is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdw75BDJ_tcUs_tF2LCzOdQ
The (Fresh, Proper DI) list is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdw75BDJ_tcXwY417YgzNOA
To navigate, simply go to the bottom and choose which stage's information you would like to view. Characters are in alphabetical order.
If you're more of a visual person, you might enjoy the extra charts here: http://www.google.com/s2/profiles/104668761448981107990
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WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE LISTS?
This guide, once completed, will be a list of Pikachu's kill moves. The goal is to detail at which percentage they KO specific characters, fresh, from the absolute middle of a given stage with both no DI and proper DI. Only moves that kill at less than or equal to 200% damage will be included.
The following moves will be tested: Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash, N-air, Skull Bash, Thunder (T2), Ftilt, & Utilt
- For smashes, charged & uncharged will both be tested. Usmash will have sweetspotted and non-sweetspotted values.
- N-air will be sweetspotted only. Ftilt values will be for when the opponent is sent forward.
The following stages will be tested: Final Destination, Smashville, Battlefield, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Corneria
- These are all Starter, Starter/Counter, or Counter stages from the SBR list.
- Transforming stages (i.e., Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza) may be added in the future, but I haven't yet figured out how I can accurately test them without wasting massive amounts of time.
WHERE DID THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Each move was tested in Training Mode on a CPU set to "Control" so that there was absolutely no DI influence from the CPU.
The results followed these rules:
WHAT THE HECK IS "RME"?
We all know there are differences between Training Mode and a real match in brawl mode. Therefore, beside each percentage in the charts you will see a "Real Match Expected" (RME) value which accounts for a) the slight damage/knockback difference between Training Mode and regular brawl (on average -4%), and b) extended survival due to proper DI (guesstimation: +15%).
RME is not accurate down to the last percentage; however, it should give you an idea of when Pika can start to KO in a real match. Factors such as stage size, the quality of your opponent's DI skills, and character weight can affect this number.
- RME still assumes that your opponent is in the exact center of the stage. Obviously, if they're closer to the edge, moves that KO off the sides will kill them sooner or later depending on which direction you send them.
- A character's recovery will NOT affect these numbers. I only counted when the opponent was blasted completely off the screen or star-KO'd. The only factors that should change the results in a real match are DI, using aerials to stop momentum, and the -4% difference between training mode and brawl mode. These factors are all accounted for in the RME values, which is why RME is just an estimation.
- RME will be calculated for the "Fresh, No DI" list only. The "Fresh, Proper DI" list will contain raw data only.
- As the "Fresh, Proper DI" list is filled in, RME values will be deleted from the "Fresh, No DI" list as they then become obsolete.
IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN HELP?
Any and all help would be VERY much appreciated. Even if you can only do one move on one character on one stage, that means less work for me. And I'm a lazy b****.
Note: I will only accept contributions for the "Fresh, No DI" list. The reason for this is that DI is a skill that varies from person to person; therefore, to obtain results that are as consistent as possible, it only makes sense that all data in the "Fresh, Proper DI" list come from the same player. Even so, there is more than enough work to go around for people who want to help out, trust me.
Simply follow these instructions:
Before You Begin:
The Testing Procedure:
Sharing Your Results:
CAN I MAKE A REQUEST?
Of course! If you would like a particular move or character or stage done, post your request in this thread and I will get to it as soon as I can. I want to do this in order of demand as much as possible so that time isn't wasted on what people don't care about. Otherwise, I will be doing this list in order of practicality: neutral stages first and Pika's most reliable kill moves (Fsmash, Usmash, Thunder, N-air).
I will also do "special requests" for moves or stages that are not officially on the list to be tested. Basically, if you ask, I will set aside some time to test it as long as it's reasonably possible.
SPECIAL THANKS
There are a few people I would like to extend my special thanks to for helping me with this guide, either intentionally or unintentionally:
K 2 for pointing out differences in training mode vs. brawl mode
Muhznit and Dream Land Works for the moveset information in their guides
Muhznit again for formatting ideas
Kroova for data contributions
Mister_E and K 2 for their constructive criticism
Tornadith for data contributions
Everyone who replied, letting me know I wasn't doing this for nothing
- 01/11/09 - Finished Fsmash (uncharged, sweetspotted, no DI) info for Smashville (THANK YOU, TORNADITH!!!), added Tornadith to list of contributors, edited graphs, added graph for N-air, added "Fresh, Proper DI" list to the OP, edited sections of the OP
Added the following misc. data:
Mario, Final Destination, Fresh, Proper DI: Usmash (uncharged, sweetspotted)
Mario, Final Destination, Fresh, Proper DI: Usmash (uncharged, sweetspotted)
- 01/02/09 - Edited list of stages to be tested, edited list of moves to be tested, started experimenting with properly DI'd moves, finished N-air information for FD, started testing Dsmash for FD
The following move has been removed from the list: D-air (does not kill some characters before 200%)
The following stages have been removed from the list: Brinstar, Norfair, Pirate Ship, Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Green Hill Zone, Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Pokémon Stadiums 1 & 2, Jungle Japes, & Luigi's Mansion (see note in "What Exactly Is This List?" section)
Added the following misc. data:The following stages have been removed from the list: Brinstar, Norfair, Pirate Ship, Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Green Hill Zone, Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Pokémon Stadiums 1 & 2, Jungle Japes, & Luigi's Mansion (see note in "What Exactly Is This List?" section)
Dsmash, Final Destination: DK, Link, Samus, ZSS
- 12/24/08 - Finished Skull Bash information for Final Destination, added notes in spreadsheet to Usmash & Skull Bash, added note to G&W about Bucket Braking, added 4 charts to "The List" section
- 12/22/08 - Added the following data:
Skull Bash (Fully Charged), Final Destination: DK, Link, Samus, ZSS, Kirby, Fox, Pika, Marth, G&W, Luigi, Diddy, Zelda, Sheik, Pit, MK, Falco, PT, Ike, Snake
NOW TESTING: Dsmash, Final Destination
NEXT UP: Usmash (uncharged, no sweetspot), Final Destination
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE LISTS
Currently this project is being hosted at Google Docs because it's too much to fit in a post here at SWF. It's convenient because I can put my results directly into the charts as I'm testing, and since Google auto-saves, you will always be getting the most recent versions of the lists down to the minute. Once they are complete, I may save them as a PDF file or something, but for now this is fine.
The (Fresh, No DI) list is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdw75BDJ_tcUs_tF2LCzOdQ
The (Fresh, Proper DI) list is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdw75BDJ_tcXwY417YgzNOA
To navigate, simply go to the bottom and choose which stage's information you would like to view. Characters are in alphabetical order.
If you're more of a visual person, you might enjoy the extra charts here: http://www.google.com/s2/profiles/104668761448981107990
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE LISTS?
This guide, once completed, will be a list of Pikachu's kill moves. The goal is to detail at which percentage they KO specific characters, fresh, from the absolute middle of a given stage with both no DI and proper DI. Only moves that kill at less than or equal to 200% damage will be included.
The following moves will be tested: Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash, N-air, Skull Bash, Thunder (T2), Ftilt, & Utilt
- For smashes, charged & uncharged will both be tested. Usmash will have sweetspotted and non-sweetspotted values.
- N-air will be sweetspotted only. Ftilt values will be for when the opponent is sent forward.
The following stages will be tested: Final Destination, Smashville, Battlefield, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Corneria
- These are all Starter, Starter/Counter, or Counter stages from the SBR list.
- Transforming stages (i.e., Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza) may be added in the future, but I haven't yet figured out how I can accurately test them without wasting massive amounts of time.
WHERE DID THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Each move was tested in Training Mode on a CPU set to "Control" so that there was absolutely no DI influence from the CPU.
The results followed these rules:
(1) The opponent dropped straight down from his/her respawn position to the middle of the stage
(2) Pikachu was standing in a position that did not push the opponent in any direction.
(3) The move either blasted the opponent off the side of the stage or star-KO'd them off the top
(4) The move did not KO at 1 less percentage
(5) The move KO'd at the result percentage 10 consecutive times and did not KO at 1 less percentage 10 consecutive times
(6) The move KO'd the opponent at less than or equal to 200% damage
(2) Pikachu was standing in a position that did not push the opponent in any direction.
(3) The move either blasted the opponent off the side of the stage or star-KO'd them off the top
(4) The move did not KO at 1 less percentage
(5) The move KO'd at the result percentage 10 consecutive times and did not KO at 1 less percentage 10 consecutive times
(6) The move KO'd the opponent at less than or equal to 200% damage
WHAT THE HECK IS "RME"?
We all know there are differences between Training Mode and a real match in brawl mode. Therefore, beside each percentage in the charts you will see a "Real Match Expected" (RME) value which accounts for a) the slight damage/knockback difference between Training Mode and regular brawl (on average -4%), and b) extended survival due to proper DI (guesstimation: +15%).
RME is not accurate down to the last percentage; however, it should give you an idea of when Pika can start to KO in a real match. Factors such as stage size, the quality of your opponent's DI skills, and character weight can affect this number.
- RME still assumes that your opponent is in the exact center of the stage. Obviously, if they're closer to the edge, moves that KO off the sides will kill them sooner or later depending on which direction you send them.
- A character's recovery will NOT affect these numbers. I only counted when the opponent was blasted completely off the screen or star-KO'd. The only factors that should change the results in a real match are DI, using aerials to stop momentum, and the -4% difference between training mode and brawl mode. These factors are all accounted for in the RME values, which is why RME is just an estimation.
- RME will be calculated for the "Fresh, No DI" list only. The "Fresh, Proper DI" list will contain raw data only.
- As the "Fresh, Proper DI" list is filled in, RME values will be deleted from the "Fresh, No DI" list as they then become obsolete.
IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN HELP?
Any and all help would be VERY much appreciated. Even if you can only do one move on one character on one stage, that means less work for me. And I'm a lazy b****.
Note: I will only accept contributions for the "Fresh, No DI" list. The reason for this is that DI is a skill that varies from person to person; therefore, to obtain results that are as consistent as possible, it only makes sense that all data in the "Fresh, Proper DI" list come from the same player. Even so, there is more than enough work to go around for people who want to help out, trust me.
Simply follow these instructions:
Before You Begin:
(1) Check the list and "Now Testing/Next Up" before you start. Make sure the move/stage/character you want to do has not be done or is not being tested. It would be a shame to all do that work for nothing.
(2) To be double-sure, post in this thread what you plan on testing. However, if you do not post your results within a week, I will assume you decided not to do it. (If that's the case, please edit your post and say so.)
(3) Optional: Make sure you have two controllers. You can test with only one, but it's very time-consuming and really not worth the headache.
(2) To be double-sure, post in this thread what you plan on testing. However, if you do not post your results within a week, I will assume you decided not to do it. (If that's the case, please edit your post and say so.)
(3) Optional: Make sure you have two controllers. You can test with only one, but it's very time-consuming and really not worth the headache.
The Testing Procedure:
(1) Go into Training Mode
(2) Select Pikachu as your character and the character you want to test on as the CPU.
(3) Choose your stage.
(4) Set the CPU to "Control" and its damage to a reasonable amount.
(5) Kill the CPU (either kill it yourself or use your second controller to walk it off the stage) so that it respawns in the center of the stage.
(6) Wait for the CPU to drop down or use your second controller to drop DIRECTLY down from the spawn point. Do not fall left or right. Wait for invincibility to wear off.
(7) Use the move you want to test on the CPU. Some things to keep in mind:
*Pikachu's body must not push the CPU in any direction.
*If you're testing a sweetspotted move, make sure it sweetspots. To double-check, see Muhznit's moveset discussion thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197330
(8) Record the lowest percentage at which the move KO's the CPU. Some more things to keep in mind:
*The CPU must be completely blasted off the side of the screen or star-KO'd. Falling to its death does not count.
*If you're not sure, look at the "blast" itself. If it's coming from the top corners or horizontally from the sides, it counts. If it's coming up diagonally from one of the bottom corners, it does not count. If it's coming up vertically from the bottom, it does not count.
(9) Test 10 consecutive times. This is important! We want this to be accurate.
*At your "result" percentage, the CPU must die according to the above rules 10 consecutive times.
*At 1 less percentage, the CPU must NOT die according to the above rules 10 consecutive times.
*If you mess up (ex: miss a sweetspot, accidentally run into the CPU, etc.), you don't have to start the set of 10 all over. Just kill the CPU and continue at whatever number out of 10 you were on.
(2) Select Pikachu as your character and the character you want to test on as the CPU.
(3) Choose your stage.
(4) Set the CPU to "Control" and its damage to a reasonable amount.
(5) Kill the CPU (either kill it yourself or use your second controller to walk it off the stage) so that it respawns in the center of the stage.
(6) Wait for the CPU to drop down or use your second controller to drop DIRECTLY down from the spawn point. Do not fall left or right. Wait for invincibility to wear off.
(7) Use the move you want to test on the CPU. Some things to keep in mind:
*Pikachu's body must not push the CPU in any direction.
*If you're testing a sweetspotted move, make sure it sweetspots. To double-check, see Muhznit's moveset discussion thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197330
(8) Record the lowest percentage at which the move KO's the CPU. Some more things to keep in mind:
*The CPU must be completely blasted off the side of the screen or star-KO'd. Falling to its death does not count.
*If you're not sure, look at the "blast" itself. If it's coming from the top corners or horizontally from the sides, it counts. If it's coming up diagonally from one of the bottom corners, it does not count. If it's coming up vertically from the bottom, it does not count.
(9) Test 10 consecutive times. This is important! We want this to be accurate.
*At your "result" percentage, the CPU must die according to the above rules 10 consecutive times.
*At 1 less percentage, the CPU must NOT die according to the above rules 10 consecutive times.
*If you mess up (ex: miss a sweetspot, accidentally run into the CPU, etc.), you don't have to start the set of 10 all over. Just kill the CPU and continue at whatever number out of 10 you were on.
Sharing Your Results:
(1) Congratulate yourself. You just helped the Pika community!
(2) Post your results in this thread. Make sure to include the move(s) you tested, which character(s) you tested the move(s) on, and which stage(s) you tested on.
(3) You do not have to calculate RME. I'll do it before I put the numbers on the list.
(4) Thank you!
(2) Post your results in this thread. Make sure to include the move(s) you tested, which character(s) you tested the move(s) on, and which stage(s) you tested on.
(3) You do not have to calculate RME. I'll do it before I put the numbers on the list.
(4) Thank you!
CAN I MAKE A REQUEST?
Of course! If you would like a particular move or character or stage done, post your request in this thread and I will get to it as soon as I can. I want to do this in order of demand as much as possible so that time isn't wasted on what people don't care about. Otherwise, I will be doing this list in order of practicality: neutral stages first and Pika's most reliable kill moves (Fsmash, Usmash, Thunder, N-air).
I will also do "special requests" for moves or stages that are not officially on the list to be tested. Basically, if you ask, I will set aside some time to test it as long as it's reasonably possible.
SPECIAL THANKS
There are a few people I would like to extend my special thanks to for helping me with this guide, either intentionally or unintentionally:
K 2 for pointing out differences in training mode vs. brawl mode
Muhznit and Dream Land Works for the moveset information in their guides
Muhznit again for formatting ideas
Kroova for data contributions
Mister_E and K 2 for their constructive criticism
Tornadith for data contributions
Everyone who replied, letting me know I wasn't doing this for nothing
