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A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread
- Thread starter Uncle
- Start date
B!squick
Smash Master
Bans would be dependent on where you live since different tournys = different stage lists.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Ban Battlefield. :D
Godzillabr
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 19
55/45 meta favor.
als, I like to fire breath in the edge when meta's recovering, all he can do is upb u, so on the edge u ll not get bad positioned or KOed, but the firebreath can cut front B and give some damage, and every % trade is good for bowser in this match up.
a hard match to play, but if u do a good job, not so impossible to win.
also, I'm not good at the CG, so I prefer to just do one or 2 regrabs and klaw meta(if he's at low %), or try a fair offstage/Dtilt at higher %.
BUT, there are not many metaknights in Brasil, and also no meta here planks, so I dont have the experience some of the USA bowser may have(dunno much about the cenary besides brasil and USA).
als, I like to fire breath in the edge when meta's recovering, all he can do is upb u, so on the edge u ll not get bad positioned or KOed, but the firebreath can cut front B and give some damage, and every % trade is good for bowser in this match up.
a hard match to play, but if u do a good job, not so impossible to win.
also, I'm not good at the CG, so I prefer to just do one or 2 regrabs and klaw meta(if he's at low %), or try a fair offstage/Dtilt at higher %.
BUT, there are not many metaknights in Brasil, and also no meta here planks, so I dont have the experience some of the USA bowser may have(dunno much about the cenary besides brasil and USA).
MrEh
Smash Hero
That would explain the 45-55 ratio. lol
The Brown Scourge
Smash Journeyman
Ban Rainbow cruise. Dsmash ***** too much. We could chaingrab him to his death when on top of the map right before it starts dropping
B!squick
Smash Master
I actually don't mind Cruise too much. Bowser IS faster in the air than Meta.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Cruise is really bad for MK vs Bowser, airspeed has nothing to do with anything, he has 5 jumps and a glide.
Phiddlesticks
Smash Lord
ive heard bowsers air speed makes him ImPoSsIbLe To GrAb
how do you know where hes gonna land when hes weaving around in the air so fast?!
how do you know where hes gonna land when hes weaving around in the air so fast?!
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Well, I think what 'superior air speed' means in this case is his ability to move horizontally better than Meta Knight can. Not too helpful though since MK can simply initiate his glide to move horizontally. Or use his tornado.
Rainbow Cruise is like... Meta Knight's playground. e.e
Rainbow Cruise is like... Meta Knight's playground. e.e
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
On MK's counterpick, you get screwed really hard, Brinstar or Rainbow, pick your poison.
Godzillabr
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 19
why ban brinstar?I use this cp agains some characters, I like that stage 4 bowser, and last champ here a meta changed to kirby to face a snake in brinstar, so I assume is not that good 4 meta too...
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
The stage is amazing for Metaknight. Players need to play gayer where your from, from what I'm hearing from you :/
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Meta Knight not good on Brinstar? Lolno. That's one of Meta Knight's best stages. The only reason he probably changed against a Snake on Brinstar is because Snake kills far too easily on that stage. Percentage-wise, he can kill Meta Knight at percents as low as 60% with an non-staled tilt. Not exactly sure why he'd change to a Kirby there over Meta Knight though, probably because of the stage gimmicks. Stage splitter via down+B, close range pressure game? Not entirely sure though.
Rainbow Cruise would probably be worse for Bowser than Brinstar. Both stages are ridiculous for him against a Meta Knight though. Meta Knight can pressure a character from the center of Brinstar way too easily. So that's giving him far too much stage control. But Bowser can get some quick kills on that stage if given an opening. Which is like... ******** as ****.
Rainbow Cruise would probably be worse for Bowser than Brinstar. Both stages are ridiculous for him against a Meta Knight though. Meta Knight can pressure a character from the center of Brinstar way too easily. So that's giving him far too much stage control. But Bowser can get some quick kills on that stage if given an opening. Which is like... ******** as ****.
MrEh
Smash Hero
You're always going to lose the CP. If you don't win the first match, you lose the set.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
^
Against a good player {or generally bad in the case that it's Meta Knight} that's pretty much true. If you lose the first match, counterpick a stage that you feel comfortable with Bowser on. Then judging that they'll probably try to take you to a ******** stage -- you should just change characters. Dedication is one thing, but if they're Meta Knight and you're Bowser for 2/3rds of the set, you've already got your pride. **** their ****. e.e;
Rainbow Cruise is banned here in Europe so I can ban Brinstar. (Remember we're accounting for different rulesets).
Can anybody confirm if it's possible to mash out of tornado? Or does it come down to SDI'ing + airdodging the first hit?
Also what's our second best stage against MK?
Can anybody confirm if it's possible to mash out of tornado? Or does it come down to SDI'ing + airdodging the first hit?
Also what's our second best stage against MK?
B!squick
Smash Master
Didn't Sliq come up with some easy way to get out of it or something?
Godzillabr
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 19
on ground a fortress OoS can beat a nado.
on air a very good klaw can beat, and a down B can trade hits, but normally if ur above meta, u'll just take 2 or 3 nados till come back to ground =/
well...I know that battlefield is TERRIBLE for bowser agains meta.
FD and smashville are good choices.
maybe castle siege or delphino to use some grab releases walk offs.(dunno what's banned or not in other countrys)
on air a very good klaw can beat, and a down B can trade hits, but normally if ur above meta, u'll just take 2 or 3 nados till come back to ground =/
well...I know that battlefield is TERRIBLE for bowser agains meta.
FD and smashville are good choices.
maybe castle siege or delphino to use some grab releases walk offs.(dunno what's banned or not in other countrys)
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Castle yes, Delfino, no.
Fortress OoS actually doesn't beat Nado if they are elevated correctly above your shield, only if there close to the ground.
Nair through the center of tornado beats it.
Godzillabr
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 19
yes, I already beatd MK nado's once with the bomb from the ground, it beats the nado, but is very situacional.
MrEh
Smash Hero
If you Bowser Bomb the Nado from above, sometimes Bowser just flies right through and no one gets hurt.
Pretty funny when that happens.
Pretty funny when that happens.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Yea, The first grounded hit of Downb beats tornado.
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
So...I don't want to sound like a theorycrafter because obviously MK won't be near BB1's hitbox, but couldn't we just distance ourselves with crawling and then BB everytime MK nado's? Or we can just distance with crawling and shield if he's too high...
I'm just spitting stuff because I can't test it [lolboardingschoolatm] and it seems hard to remember to crawlspace EVERYTIME MK tornados, considering he'll just do it whenever you're in the air.
I've yet to get a "good" enough klaw to go through MK's nado when I'm above or to the side of it, unless I jump and get him. Aerial BB has usually worked for me most of the time but I get mad when I don't go through, lol.
I'm just spitting stuff because I can't test it [lolboardingschoolatm] and it seems hard to remember to crawlspace EVERYTIME MK tornados, considering he'll just do it whenever you're in the air.
I've yet to get a "good" enough klaw to go through MK's nado when I'm above or to the side of it, unless I jump and get him. Aerial BB has usually worked for me most of the time but I get mad when I don't go through, lol.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
You could do that, but good MK's don't approach with tornado.
Aerial Bowser bomb also loses to tornado if the MK uses tornado correctly.
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
True...see I've been away from the serious business for too long.
Jesus I cannot wait until I get back home, lol. I've been missing out on too much.
Erm...so 35-65 is the general consensus of this MU right? We still need to fill out Flayl's MU chart thing.
brbclass
Jesus I cannot wait until I get back home, lol. I've been missing out on too much.
Erm...so 35-65 is the general consensus of this MU right? We still need to fill out Flayl's MU chart thing.
brbclass
B!squick
Smash Master
Okay, let's get started then.
Meta Knight
Ratio: 35:65
Secondary: .... Meta Knight?
What to look out for: Er... everything?
How they will KO you: DAir, Shuttle Loop
Best spacing zone: Jab's pretty much the only thing we can put all our trust in, right?
Grab-Relase
- For damage: Chaingrab + Klaw?
- For the KO: DTilt?
Firebreath: Short burst only, best to avoid completely
Stages
- Strike: {Neutral Stages to Strike}
- Ban: {Stage to ban, account for both conservative and liberal stage lists}
- Pick: {Best and 2nd best stage to choose from, account for both conservative and liberal stage lists}
Link to discussion: {link to either the beginning of the discussion or the most detailed post}
Meta Knight
Ratio: 35:65
Secondary: .... Meta Knight?
What to look out for: Er... everything?
How they will KO you: DAir, Shuttle Loop
Best spacing zone: Jab's pretty much the only thing we can put all our trust in, right?
Grab-Relase
- For damage: Chaingrab + Klaw?
- For the KO: DTilt?
Firebreath: Short burst only, best to avoid completely
Stages
- Strike: {Neutral Stages to Strike}
- Ban: {Stage to ban, account for both conservative and liberal stage lists}
- Pick: {Best and 2nd best stage to choose from, account for both conservative and liberal stage lists}
Link to discussion: {link to either the beginning of the discussion or the most detailed post}
MrEh
Smash Hero
Chaingrab to Klaw is the best for damage. Chaingrab to Fair is fine only if you know it will kill, otherwise chaingrab to Dtilt is preferred.
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
You can get out of the tornado by mashing everything. The problem is you only get out before the very last hit, unless they don't mash fast enough.
It's not that helpful to get out, though, as you get out into an attack, losing any counter attack ability you had in the first place.
Your best bet is to stay grounded, using grabs, jabs, and f tilt to win. If you have to jump, sh klaw is the only thing you should be doing.
Anytime a MK dairs over an over in the air, using all of their jumps, they will almost always end by tornadoing. Run in, shield the nado, fortress.
Fortressing the nado is your best bet, so don't jump. MK's aerials will go through yours anyways. Only time you should be short hopping is with a klaw, which will go through the nado should they start it.
There isn't a reliable way to get out of the tornado and punish as of now.
It's not that helpful to get out, though, as you get out into an attack, losing any counter attack ability you had in the first place.
Your best bet is to stay grounded, using grabs, jabs, and f tilt to win. If you have to jump, sh klaw is the only thing you should be doing.
Anytime a MK dairs over an over in the air, using all of their jumps, they will almost always end by tornadoing. Run in, shield the nado, fortress.
Fortressing the nado is your best bet, so don't jump. MK's aerials will go through yours anyways. Only time you should be short hopping is with a klaw, which will go through the nado should they start it.
There isn't a reliable way to get out of the tornado and punish as of now.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Upb'ing nado oos is only going to work for so long until MK's figure out how to tornado our shield correctly :/
Whenever I get into a tornado I just accept it and think of a way to land after getting hit by it, because like you said, you can't really punish it after your in it :/
If they try to nado you again while your in the air and know you can't airdodge past it, I would suggest trying to do a falling nair into the center of tornado, it beats it.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Depending on the spacing, I sometimes try to Klaw the Nado. (when I'm trying to get grounded) Other then that, I just try to slam into the top of it and hope for the best.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Yea, I do sometimes too, but you need to do it in a specific angle where its pretty hard to do, I can do it like, semi consistently. Pretty much you only get this angle when they approach with tornado :/
MrEh
Smash Hero
Pretty much.
It sucks how the Bowser Bomb doesn't eat the nado from the top. :/
It sucks how the Bowser Bomb doesn't eat the nado from the top. :/
I would agree with 35-65 as well. I love fighting MKs as Bowser, so I'm not willing to give up on this match up yet. We have good spacing options, the chaingrab, and lots of killing power vs him, and it makes all the more fun to play vs him. Do you guys hate it, love it, are indifferent, or is it situational?
Beating nado is very difficult for Bowser to do. Can we make a list for all the possible counters to nado ranking them from best to worst in general?
We have....
Fortress (Oos)
Aerial Klaw
Bowser Bomb
Nair (when directly on top of the tornado)
FTilt (it works very rarely though for me)
Anything else?
Beating nado is very difficult for Bowser to do. Can we make a list for all the possible counters to nado ranking them from best to worst in general?
We have....
Fortress (Oos)
Aerial Klaw
Bowser Bomb
Nair (when directly on top of the tornado)
FTilt (it works very rarely though for me)
Anything else?