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Official G&W Stage Discussion #13: Delfino Plaza
- Thread starter K 2
- Start date
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
i don't use this stage all that often. The only real advantage is i think 1 wall (other walls can be di'd over). Where the ceiling is really low (three blocks) doesn't really help gw, cuz he needs some room to and up kills. Walk off ledges don't really hurt or help him. Seems like a pretty neutral stage to me
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
I don't have much experience on this stage, but there are some notable things that benefit GaW.
Jump-through floor We all know how good GaW is at attacking through the bottom of platforms, so just act as if the stage is one giant platform. The best option the opponent has, most of the time, is simply to evacuate. Some characters can actually challenge you down here, but your 'chute normally is at least safe enough.
Platforms. GaW is good with platforms. There are platforms here. Use them. Nothing too it
Walls Like omega said, try and trap the opponent here. Not a huge boon to GaW, but it doesn't hurt as much as it helps =\
Simply STUPID blastzones. This can hurt or help, depending on how well you know the stage. Your chute is good for pushing people a little further, while being very safe for you to use. This helps everywhere. Some stops, like the one on top of the castle (NOT with the Shine thing) has stupid close blast zones on either side. Your d-smash is gonna be a huge threat. D-throw -> D-smash has never been better, and if the opponent is good at teching, or their character can buffer a roll, then just use that knowledge and techchase. Normally my opponents just DI and tech away from the dumb blastzones if they are in a disadvantaged position.
I don't really know about numbers, a good CP if you aren't confident on RC (If you aren't confident on RC, you should CP... another character) and the other "good" GaW stages are banned.. This stage is very seldom banned.
With this post, I should mention... I am gonna start contributing more to these things =].
Jump-through floor We all know how good GaW is at attacking through the bottom of platforms, so just act as if the stage is one giant platform. The best option the opponent has, most of the time, is simply to evacuate. Some characters can actually challenge you down here, but your 'chute normally is at least safe enough.
Platforms. GaW is good with platforms. There are platforms here. Use them. Nothing too it
Walls Like omega said, try and trap the opponent here. Not a huge boon to GaW, but it doesn't hurt as much as it helps =\
Simply STUPID blastzones. This can hurt or help, depending on how well you know the stage. Your chute is good for pushing people a little further, while being very safe for you to use. This helps everywhere. Some stops, like the one on top of the castle (NOT with the Shine thing) has stupid close blast zones on either side. Your d-smash is gonna be a huge threat. D-throw -> D-smash has never been better, and if the opponent is good at teching, or their character can buffer a roll, then just use that knowledge and techchase. Normally my opponents just DI and tech away from the dumb blastzones if they are in a disadvantaged position.
I don't really know about numbers, a good CP if you aren't confident on RC (If you aren't confident on RC, you should CP... another character) and the other "good" GaW stages are banned.. This stage is very seldom banned.
With this post, I should mention... I am gonna start contributing more to these things =].
Not a bad stage for G&W, but seriously, why would you CP this? I would choose BF over this.
Anyways, just in case your opponent CP'd this....
Almost half of the transformations have walkoffs, so your dsmash will be a beast here.
This stage is really frustrating when it transforms and saves your opponent...
I'm guessing the constant transformations + platforms may hinder Diddy's banana game?
Anyways, just in case your opponent CP'd this....
Almost half of the transformations have walkoffs, so your dsmash will be a beast here.
This stage is really frustrating when it transforms and saves your opponent...
I'm guessing the constant transformations + platforms may hinder Diddy's banana game?
cutter
Smash Champion
there are better stages for limiting diddy's bananas.
Vinnie
Smash Master
nair through stage, and up b through stage sometimes catches them off guard lol
wall infinites, and early kills at the close blastzones.
i spiked someone through the water once
wall infinites, and early kills at the close blastzones.
i spiked someone through the water once
Spamming Dair around the pillar + water section 
Won't score many kills if any in a serious match but you never know when the chance shows itself.
I occasionally take Olimar here because he has issues with water for majority of his pikmin, but there are better stages. Just a matter of what is banned or not...
Good platform game between transformations but as far as platform game goes I always prefer something like Battlefield which is there all the time.
I have a love hate relationship with the walkoffs too. Sour Dsmash is just too good but light weight and the removal of G&W's good recovery is not something I like on the walkoff sides.
Occasional lock on a wall is nice too to get plenty of free damage.
Nothing bad though, never an issue to be taken here for G&W, but I'm not gonna opt to take my opponent here when something like Green Greens, Corneria or Rainbow Cruise is there instead.
Won't score many kills if any in a serious match but you never know when the chance shows itself.
I occasionally take Olimar here because he has issues with water for majority of his pikmin, but there are better stages. Just a matter of what is banned or not...
Good platform game between transformations but as far as platform game goes I always prefer something like Battlefield which is there all the time.
I have a love hate relationship with the walkoffs too. Sour Dsmash is just too good but light weight and the removal of G&W's good recovery is not something I like on the walkoff sides.
Occasional lock on a wall is nice too to get plenty of free damage.
Nothing bad though, never an issue to be taken here for G&W, but I'm not gonna opt to take my opponent here when something like Green Greens, Corneria or Rainbow Cruise is there instead.
This stage should really be a neutral... I maintain that this is the best designed stage in brawl.
Anyway, this is one of the better neutrals if it's on the list so stage strike toward it, but as a counterpick I don't see why you'd pick this stage save for the stage list being incredibly thin. Pressure from below the floating portion is good, and you can stall in the water on some of the forms. Chef can force the opponent to stall on the shine gate. The pillars form is really awesome, and you should get aggressive at the ledge, small platform, and water abuse while you can on it. On the other hand, the form with the umbrellas is kinda a pain to work with; just play conservatively on that form.
In the Pirate Ship topic I tried to claim that Halberd just outclassed this stage, but in light of Hylain's comment I might moderate my position to one that says that both of these stages have the same big positive factor going for them (frequent pass through floor) and both are likely to find themselves suddenly high on your list if you are looking at a conservative stage list but are not worth picking otherwise. I still do generally prefer the Halberd to Delfino Plaza, but if the Halberd is annoying you and the list is conservative, this is a good stage to look into. Of course, if the list is liberal at all, you have a lot of better stages and shouldn't even be thinking of this one.
About walls and walk-offs. Walk-offs are kinda bad because Mr. Game & Watch is really bad at exploiting them, but they aren't a big deal really since the only exploitations he has to worry about are Diddy Kong banana locks and Ness's silly forward throw (maybe DK's cargo too). Walls are alright if you can actually lock someone on them, but it's really rare for someone to actually walk into that, and Mr. Game & Watch's wall combo abilities are really nothing special.
Anyway, this is one of the better neutrals if it's on the list so stage strike toward it, but as a counterpick I don't see why you'd pick this stage save for the stage list being incredibly thin. Pressure from below the floating portion is good, and you can stall in the water on some of the forms. Chef can force the opponent to stall on the shine gate. The pillars form is really awesome, and you should get aggressive at the ledge, small platform, and water abuse while you can on it. On the other hand, the form with the umbrellas is kinda a pain to work with; just play conservatively on that form.
In the Pirate Ship topic I tried to claim that Halberd just outclassed this stage, but in light of Hylain's comment I might moderate my position to one that says that both of these stages have the same big positive factor going for them (frequent pass through floor) and both are likely to find themselves suddenly high on your list if you are looking at a conservative stage list but are not worth picking otherwise. I still do generally prefer the Halberd to Delfino Plaza, but if the Halberd is annoying you and the list is conservative, this is a good stage to look into. Of course, if the list is liberal at all, you have a lot of better stages and shouldn't even be thinking of this one.
About walls and walk-offs. Walk-offs are kinda bad because Mr. Game & Watch is really bad at exploiting them, but they aren't a big deal really since the only exploitations he has to worry about are Diddy Kong banana locks and Ness's silly forward throw (maybe DK's cargo too). Walls are alright if you can actually lock someone on them, but it's really rare for someone to actually walk into that, and Mr. Game & Watch's wall combo abilities are really nothing special.
revengeska
Smash Apprentice
Not too bad for G&W imho. Being able to go through the platform just gives your recovery one more option and it's likely to help you more than your opponent. The platforms are obviously good for nairs, etc. Plenty of room to work with in most of the forms. The things that can hurt G&W such as walk-off edges and water(possible spiking) are pretty character specific. But overall I'd be happy to see this chosen as a neutral stage.
I would however consider banning this against Falco(this comes from someone who mains G&W and seconds Falco). Falco would have walkoff edges to work with, plenty of room to chaingrab, and water in which spiking might be easy in the right situation.
I would put this as 6/10, probably one of G&W's better neutrals.
I would however consider banning this against Falco(this comes from someone who mains G&W and seconds Falco). Falco would have walkoff edges to work with, plenty of room to chaingrab, and water in which spiking might be easy in the right situation.
I would put this as 6/10, probably one of G&W's better neutrals.
Falco shouldn't be chaingrabbing Mr. Game & Watch long enough to walk him off any walk-offs (up special is too good!), and if you are honestly getting spiked in the water as Mr. Game & Watch by Falco, you need to work on your water game. I'd be happy if a Falco picked this stage on me; I'd ban Final Destination before this stage on Falco without a second thought.
revengeska
Smash Apprentice
I'm not saying those things are going to happen if you play Falco on Delfino, it's just something that you have to watch out for because there are instances(though not too often), where it can happen. Of course you're not going to jump into the water and say "hey Falco, spike me", but if you fall into the water for whatever reason and a Falco is quick to react it can be dangerous. Same with the walkoff edges, if you get caught in the wrong position, you could be chaingrabbed *enough* to be thrown into the blast zone. I wouldn't ban the stage against Falco cause these things would happen to me if I played him on it, I would ban the stage against Falco because it forces me to alter my game to avoid these situations, which is in essence a counterpick.
The issue is that if you are in the water against Falco, YOU are at the massive advantage if he is such a fool as to join you out there (smart Falco players will just wait on land for the stage to transform). Falco has zero practical options to hit Mr. Game & Watch in the water as long as Mr. Game & Watch is good enough to time the invincibility on his up special to solidly beat out Falco's meteor (this is actually more general; Falco is in real trouble if he has a Mr. Game & Watch below him... which is a situation that is more common on Delfino Plaza than on most other stages). Likewise, Falco's chaingrab is really not a big threat relative to the walk-offs unless you get close enough to them that a large number of things (such as random forward smashes) are likely to kill you there as well. As long as you DI away and mash the up special input, you get out of Falco's chainthrow really low (like 30% tops); it doesn't really require you to alter your gameplan at all to avoid the situations where it will be a problem. The fact that Mr. Game & Watch can't really walk-off camp for back throws like the other characters means you have no reason to be in the positions that Falco's chainthrow is a threat with the walk-offs anyway, and that's also true on stages like Castle Siege or Mario Circuit, not just Delfino Plaza. I'd actually say this stage is a slight positive for Mr. Game & Watch against Falco though there are certainly better options.
revengeska
Smash Apprentice
The point is that you sometimes fall in the water at just the wrong time and you can get spiked, no matter what character you are because there is a point where you can't move. It may turn out better for you in the long run than most of the other characters, but water =/= win for G&W. Point well taken about the chaingrab, with the exception that you'll be CG'ed a lot farther from 0%-30% than you would be fsmashed at 0%, but that's pretty specific.
I'm sure much of what I'm about to say has already been said - whatever, I'm going to start trying to contribute to these things more, especially in light of some of the mean things people have been saying about G&W (being 1-dimensional and predictable...you know) after this recent tier list.
Delfino's kind of a fun stage to play on, the neutral transformation (one with the platform group moving around the level) is not bad - similar to battlefield - and obviously you can Dthrow -> Dsmash on the platforms as usual. One of the transformations I really like is the one with the 4 or 5 rock pillars in the water. You can keyspike people in the water, Dthrow -> Dsmash on every pillar, Usmash and Uair can kill quite low here, as can a sweetspotted Dsmash.
Most of Delfino is not particularly awesome for projectile characters (except for about 3 flatter tranformations, and I suppose the neutral tranformation), but you can do better than this level if you're trying to limit projectiles.
Something decent for G&W also is that he can attack from below the stage on the neutral platformy transformation (and a couple others - the Shine plaza comes to mind). This gets predictable though. You can also Up-B through the stage, which again, isn't always the best choice, but can catch your opponent offguard sometimes. Edgeguarding and hogging works quite well on this level against characters with sub-par recoveries (but where doesn't it?) but don't forget that the level can save them. On the flipside, if you've been unable to recover on the level, you should try to float down slowly to your demise, as the level might change to save YOU.
I'd give this a 6/10, it doesn't do anything to hurt G&W and is even a little helpful. It has good music too! But I wouldn't CP this.
Delfino's kind of a fun stage to play on, the neutral transformation (one with the platform group moving around the level) is not bad - similar to battlefield - and obviously you can Dthrow -> Dsmash on the platforms as usual. One of the transformations I really like is the one with the 4 or 5 rock pillars in the water. You can keyspike people in the water, Dthrow -> Dsmash on every pillar, Usmash and Uair can kill quite low here, as can a sweetspotted Dsmash.
Most of Delfino is not particularly awesome for projectile characters (except for about 3 flatter tranformations, and I suppose the neutral tranformation), but you can do better than this level if you're trying to limit projectiles.
Something decent for G&W also is that he can attack from below the stage on the neutral platformy transformation (and a couple others - the Shine plaza comes to mind). This gets predictable though. You can also Up-B through the stage, which again, isn't always the best choice, but can catch your opponent offguard sometimes. Edgeguarding and hogging works quite well on this level against characters with sub-par recoveries (but where doesn't it?) but don't forget that the level can save them. On the flipside, if you've been unable to recover on the level, you should try to float down slowly to your demise, as the level might change to save YOU.
I'd give this a 6/10, it doesn't do anything to hurt G&W and is even a little helpful. It has good music too! But I wouldn't CP this.