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Matchup Thread: ESAM Edition, King DDD

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[FBC] ESAM

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Hey all, since Galax has been gobbled up from school and work, i am going to try to keep up the match-up threads. This week is my personal favorite to fight against,
King DDD

Overview:

This top-tier character relies heavily on his grabs, and more specifically his chaingrab, to win. This is one of the great things about pikachu, he cannot be chaingrabbed by DDD, which makes this matchup a whole lot easier. However, Pikachu can Forward throw chaingrab DDD till near 60%, which is a great asset towards this matchup.

On the Ground

This is the most interesting part of the matchup. Pikachu has all the speed needed to conquer this heavy adversary. However, DDD's hammer can easily keep you at bay with his f-tilt, d-tilt, and waddles. When approaching DDD, Full hop a T-jolt and run with it to DDD. If he shields it, most likely you will get the grab before him, which can lead to your chaingrabs. Spacing isn't really necessary for pikachu, because DDD can outspace you 100% of the time. So Your speed and CG will win the battle for you on the ground. You can rush in, possibly throw a T-jolt in there, watch for the f-tilt and d-tilt, and have a blast. You can also QAC circles around DDD, and he has very little to do against it since all of his moves are slow. The only thing he can do is grab, but that requires amazing timing.

In the air

The air is an interesting spot to be in. Although pikachu clearly has the advantage, positioning is key. DDDs best aerial is definitely his back air, and he will abuse it all day if he has to. It has great priority, and will hit you out of skull bash if you are recovering, and be a general nuisance any time you are behind him in the air. If you are above DDD, he will use his uair, which can be a very annoying attack, but it isn't nearly as good as his bair. Rarely should you be above DDD and in that position. Every other position in the air is highly advantageous to pikachu. If you are right next to each other, pikachu has nair to knock him away, bair to rack up damage, and uair + fair to continue comboes. Pikachu reigns supreme in the air in this matchup because even if you are behind the DDD, you can just QA around him and have it favorable in your position again.

Approaching

Approaching DDD is pretty straightforward. At first, just rush in, and see how he reacts. Have your shield button ready, and watch for the forward and D-tilt. If he uses them, then dash out of shield and grab him and CG him. You have many different approaches. You can QAC to him, but if you do this, make sure you don't end up right in front of him, cuz you will get grabbed. But otherwise, have a blast and try out new approaches that fit to the specific DDD you are fighting.

DDD on the other hand, has absolutely no approach to pikachu. His approach is only...run to you, maybe RAR to bair, or shield grab with its godly range. Pretty straight-forward, and you can juts QAC around him and keep using those T-jolts. Waddles may block your T-jolt, but it doesn't help his approach that much.

Waddle Dee, Waddle Doo, Gordo

This is DDDs most interesting move. His foward B can produce three different creatures: Waddle Dee, Waddle Doo, and Gordo. 70% of these is waddle Dee. It has the least knockback when thrown, and can hit you when it is on the ground when it jumps in the air, but it seldom does that. 20% is Waddle Doo. This bugger stays on the level and shoots electricity that keeps you in place, and it does around 30%. This is very dangerous, for if the DDD notices where it is and you don't, and you get hit by it...you can get an F-smash to the face. Both waddles stop your T-jolts, so that can eliminate your camping in a way. Gordo, on the other hand, is a fast moving, VERY LOW PRIORITY move, that can be used to kill Pikachu at around 90%. It moves fairly quickly, so just be on the alert.

Thunder usage

Thunder is a GREAT move against DDD. His body is too huge to really maneuver out of it. Also, his aerial speed is horrid, so it really cuts down on how easily he can escape thunder. If you place the bolt right in the middle of his body, DDD WILL get hit, even if he airdodges with perfect timing. Thunder is also practical when DDD is recovering high. Even if he is still ascending and has super armor, adding damage is always a plus when fighting DDD. If you catch DDD with the blue part of the thunder when he is ascending, he will get hit 3 times for somewhere around 35%, which is VERY nice.

Killing

DDDs best practical kill move is his u-tilt. This is a very short-ranged attack, so it is fairly hard to get hit with. Just make sure that when you are falling from above him at around 85% or higher, QA away from him. Pikachu on the other hand, has varieties of kill moves from the ground. However, do NOT waste your kill moves on DDD until around 110%. This is the BEGINNING of his kill range from F-smash and U-smash. With good DI and quick Bairing from DDD, he survives a stupidly long time. However, a quick u-tilt to thunder will send him flying for good at around 100%.

Edgeguarding

Both characters are very good edgeguarders. DDD has his godly bair, and pikachu has nair, dair, and thunder tricks. Bair will get very irritating to you when trying to recover. It eats through both skull bash and QA, so you need to get around him for the best results. Instead of QA directly towards the stage, try QAing up and then the direction you want and fall onto the stage. DDD isn't fast enough to get back to the stage and then hit you.

When DDD is below the stage, you can run out and nair him at high %s for a kill. Or, if you just threw him off from a CG, you can T-jolt him and waste all of his jumps. When DDD is forced to up-b right near the ledge, the BEST thing to do is grab. Grabbing will not give DDD his jumps back, and you can grab pummel him for extra %s. When he falls back down, he has to up-b again, so grab him again. Repeat until he is at a high enough %, let him come back on the stage, and U-smash him. This can be VERY helpful, but has a tricky timing, so practice it. IT will help immensely.

Grab game

Although DDD doesn't have a CG against Pikachu, his grabs can still be very irritating. The range is huge, and lightning quick. Good DDDs will be able to tech chase if you fall to the ground. When you get grabbed by a DDD and they decide to D-throw you, DI up, then jump and airdodge to effectively get out. However, don't let DDD grab you at all. Even though he doesn't have a CG, his B-throw still does 16%, which is a fifth of the damage he needs before he can kill you with an uptilt. DDD has several options outside of a D-throw, so be wary. The most worrysome one is his Dash attack. It kinda looks like he trips, and then kills you at like 80%...so be VERY careful. However, most things he can do, except maybe f-tilt, can be avoided if you DI up and jump + airdodge. He can't techchase you to another grab since you don't hit the ground, he can't smash you because its too slow, he can't waddle you, and he basically can't do anything.

Pikachu, on the other hand, has a CG that lasts till 60%, as mentioned above. At the end of the CG, you can either F-throw him off and edgeguard, or D-throw to nair. Or, if you realize your opponent airdodges after a D-throw, wait and then punish him. And also grabs help with your edgeguards, as mentioned above. Now it is discovered that pikachu has a different CG on DDD, that involves F-throw AND D-throw. With the use of the buffer system, pikachu has a CG on DDD, although it is a weird one. Thread for more description here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783 , and video proving existence here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v8Myoltijo . With this, pikachu will be even more difficult for DDD as he is now!

Overall: Pikachu advantage 65:35 or 70:30, leaning towards 70-30 with new CG

Video References:
ESAM vs Seibrik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfJR1b7Mi1w&feature=PlayList&p=7F0D0A1321A407D8&playnext=1&index=90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMyrPz0Uffw
Will add more later. Everybody please chip in. I know a lot, but not everything. Help will be appreciated.
 

K 2

Smash Lord
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Yay! Good Job ESAM!

Are we suppose to discuss this, or what?

Edit: Is each matchup going to have its own thread, or is there going to be a central thread?
 

Roxas215

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Reading this is just making me mad cause i already know the matchup yet i stay losing to my friend's dedede. it's got to be me. lol

But question. Is pika's chaingrab guaranteed til 60%? Cause for some reason i can only land 1 grab before he gets out of it. Is the cg to 60% not taking DI in effect?
 

!Boom!

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We are supposed to discuss this, but ESAM covered all of the basics and other tidbits. GOSH Selfish ESAM lol jk.

But of course we can still discuss this. I have a question though ESAM. How would you regularly approach a Dedede?
 

M15t3R E

Smash Master
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Yeah, I agree with Boom. I can't think of anything else to add.
Pikachu wins both on the ground and in the air.
DDD can be combo'd, CG'd, and edgeguarded easily. Big adv. for Pikachu.

Btw, I have seen Seibrik in tournaments around here. For important regional tournaments, he often travels north along the east coast.
 

!Boom!

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Some tidbits:

  • Watch out for projectiles and be cautious of which ones he throws. If you arent aware of the waddle-doos, you may get punished.
  • I beleive his bair comes out faster than all your aerials. Am i correct?
  • Be aware of the Gordos.
  • Do not be too offensive or too predictable that you would run into a fully charged Fsmash. That aint good.
  • His tilts come out quick and strong. they outrange you and clank with your thunderjolt.
  • Superarmor on his upB, and when he is dropping downwards, if you are under him, it will spike you. So dont hang on the edge a lot.
  • Wait out for Dededecide
  • Dair is disjoiinted as hell if placed right.
  • Large guy + Large hitbox of thunder = happiness
  • you cant gimp his recovery. Just so you know...
  • Refresh your moves on the waddles.
  • Note Dedede might go to the air just to avoid those bothersome thunderjolts.
  • Dont use your smashes too much. You need to save them since Dedede does not die early.
 

KayLo!

Smarter than your average wabbit.
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There's nothing left for me to contribute....

Watch out for his dash attack. It's slow, but if you run into it or get caught off guard at a high percentage, it'll kill you easily. Some DDDs will use it after their famous dthrow.

I'd also like to add onto what Boom said about his d-air... I'm not sure about the left side, but on the right side the hitbox extends all the way up to DDD's hand. So even if you think you're safe by not being directly under him, you could still get damaged. It's easy to DI out of though.

It's rare in my experience, but he may try to edgeguard you with the hammer... eruption... down-b thing. If he does, be sure to hang onto the ledge until it's over... then punish.

This matchup is clearly in Pika's favor, though. His moves are powerful, but we can run circles around DDD, so the main thing is to just not get hit and, like everyone else said, save your KO moves for when he's deep in the 100s. Use hit & run tactics until then, and keep an eye out for opportunities to thunder off the top.
 

!Boom!

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Lol ive played co18, a great Dedede player. He is very creative with his grab game. Thats the main part of his game. He really knows the pika matchup. He knows that sometimes i will not tech so after a dthrow he will come in with a dash attack at moderate high percents and kill me. A great dedede player will also be great with tech chasing after dthrow. Co18 had incredible prediction skills and it was like he did a dthrow cg on pikachu. Crazy huh? So just a warning, a very good dedede will still use dthrow.

Options the Dedede will use after dthrow:
  • Dash attack
  • Ftilt/Dtilt
  • Fsmash
  • waddle dee/doo, gordo
  • Dsmash
  • Swallow
  • Tech chase to another grab

Obviously these all depend on the predicting skills of the Dedede and which way you tech.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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Reading this is just making me mad cause i already know the matchup yet i stay losing to my friend's dedede. it's got to be me. lol

But question. Is pika's chaingrab guaranteed til 60%? Cause for some reason i can only land 1 grab before he gets out of it. Is the cg to 60% not taking DI in effect?
I think you are using D-throw CG, its F-throw that works till 60. Sorry about not clarifying..i kinda rushed before a funeral to do this.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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Yeah, totally scissors. I don't care about showing my 5 month old videos, people were asking for DDD help and since galax has been gone for a while, i decided to step in on the match-up i really know inside and out.
 

KayLo!

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ESAM, don't listen to the hate. This was very helpful. I'm a little sad that there was so little for the rest of us to contribute, lol, but I can't knock you for obviously knowing the matchup very well and sharing your knowledge.

Besides, the Pika vs. DDD matchup is clearly very one-sided, so it's one of the matchups that needs the least discussion anyway.
 

Legendary Pikachu

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What i love doing to DDD's are footstooling them. When they get knocked away, thunder the crap out of DDD's until they start drifting real low. By that time, they'll just want to get back onto the stage and many won't do u-airs at all. If you're facing one of those DDD's, just aerial in or QaC edge-bank to footstool. If you're near the edge, doing a footstool>n-air will sometimes stagespike DDD under the stage. From there you can thunder or n-air for another stage spike or gimp. DDD's sprite and dependence on jumps sort of makes it easier to get the footstool off.

That's the method I like to use first b/c it can possibly kill DDD at low percentages. Just another option that I didn't see many people post about. Hope that helps.

Sincerely,
Legendary Pikachu, LDPK, still a fledgeling smashboards'er
 

KayLo!

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hate? Gimme a break...

I gave my opinion on how it seemed to me. You act like I said this thread is stupid or something...
Your opinion was that he only put his videos up to show them off. Possibly that he chose DDD to be "boastful."

The truth of the matter is that ESAM is being very helpful by continuing the matchup discussion thread, which has been dead for ages. He's going in order of the tier list, so DDD was next in line. Your assuming otherwise looked, in my opinion, to be coming at ESAM for no reason. It contributed nothing to the thread but to give a backhanded compliment.

It's really not that serious, though. I was simply giving my opinion as well. :) Let's be friends?
 

gallax

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hey guys!!!! im back and ready to get things going again. ESAM, thanks for everything dude. if you could contact me and tell me all the matchups you have done that would be awesome. what i can do is just take the one's you've written already and use them...of course giving you the credit on the matchups. :) when i say use them i mean linking them from the main thread.
 

Jmex

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Thank you so much, this is a amazing guide.
 
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