C4 "Helpless" Sticking

Ok, I never see anyone attempt this really, they normally go for the utilt or the grab, etc.

How come when your opponent goes into helpless from a medium distance, you don't run towards them and sticky them? I've pulled this off several times recently in matches. It's not that hard to read DI, and sometimes you can stick > land > utilt (and punish their landing lag) > C4 > death.

So how come you choose your options over this? Do you just forget you can stick people sometimes? Do you feel Nair while their in the air is better? How about Ftilt/Grab/Jab? How come you don't read their DI and Fsmash?

We have so many options on a falling opponent, but I only ever see people do the obvious. (Grab on land, utilt before landing, ftilt on land) and never see the 'better' options. (Nair while opponent is airborne, Fsmash on land, sticky on air, etc.)



Also powershield > Sticky is too good, do it more often.

:mewtwo:

i guess we dont think about the obvious....or we would but its serious and we forget?

You're post makes no sense.

Basically I'm saying we have better options, but I rarely see us go for them. Except Ally. Ally Nair's them.

:mewtwo:

misterpimp5757 said:

i guess we dont think about the obvious....or we would but its serious and we forget?

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what?

A lot of the time I simply forget about it because getting a stick is somewhat rare. Even when I do remember, I almost always go for Dthrow since it leads to more damage than a stick does. If they're already in range for C4 to kill, why not just Utilt them? It's kind of like Dtilt, I guess. It's not bad, there are just better options.

8AngeL8 said:

A lot of the time I simply forget about it because getting a stick is somewhat rare. Even when I do remember, I almost always go for Dthrow since it leads to more damage than a stick does. If they're already in range for C4 to kill, why not just Utilt them? It's kind of like Dtilt, I guess. It's not bad, there are just better options.

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Because most of the time you can stick then utilt their landing lag.

That's a KO at around 70% rather then 100~% with just utilt.


Nair can KO in the 100%'s I believe, and yet I still see people go for dthrow/ftilt on landing, which doesn't make much sense.

Getting the stick on slow aerial moves (Meta Knight doesn't count on this unless the player really screws up, or sucks) isn't to hard, and on characters with a bad recovery, or one that needs some time to charge (Lucario for example, he has some startup lag on it. Wolf is another good example, if he tries to use an aerial while recovering he has a large chance of completely owning himself, so sometimes you can get a sticky on him)

Just say'n

:mewtwo:

Makes sense. I'll give it a shot in my matches tomorrow and report my findings

9 times out 10 that I try to stick someone I get owned for it even if I thought they were vulnerable, as great as the reward for it is I pretty much gave up on that. I use nair whenever I possibly can though the move is too beastly whenever you actually get an opportunity to use it

Nic64 said:

9 times out 10 that I try to stick someone I get owned for it even if I thought they were vulnerable, as great as the reward for it is I pretty much gave up on that. I use nair whenever I possibly can though the move is too beastly whenever you actually get an opportunity to use it

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Only stick them when they are in helpless then, you can't get punished that way.

9 times out of 10 it works for me.

:mewtwo:

by helpless you mean like when MK goes into fall special after using a tornado or if marth wiffs an OOS DS on you or something? because I can't even remember the last time I got that kind of an opportunity on anyone anyway...but yeah, I don't even try to C4 stick nearly enough, need to do that

It's a pretty broad statement to generalize that not enough snakes perform the non-obvious, but then again, if what you consider "obvious" is what works most efficiently, then there's no urgent need to change it. Why diverge from something that works well and turn it into something with a smaller probability of happening?

I know for a fact that the people whom I play against know just about everything Snake has to offer. They aren't oblivious to the fact that you can merely shield/spotdodge/airdodge immediately after hearing "Now!", and they dodge stuck C4 detonations with relative ease. From my point of view, playing against them, I'd much rather go for the safe options that still lead towards getting that kill, instead of relying on the gimmicky stuck C4 detonation. They aren't gullible enough to be fooled into thinking that the explosion is unavoidable. Heck, I have an even better chance landing a detonation of a grounded C4 rather than a stuck one. Seriously, in high level play, the chances of landing this are slim to none, especially if the opponent excels at avoiding punishment.

It's a personal preference of mine only to attempt C4 sticks if I'm in the lead, and if I just feel like goofing off. Even then it's difficult for me to land because the people I play have mains who are quite hard to punish, i.e. MK, pika, ROB....argh... I just feel that the other options, especially dthrow which can lead to an ftilt for an extra 15-20ish damage is much more efficient.

I'm sorry but if you're landing stuck c4 detonations '9 out of 10 times' I can only wonder how good your opponents are. One of the most reliable tactics is the Powershield -> c4 stick mentioned ages ago, but like I said, once they're stuck, so what?

Also lol @ ftilt upon landing. Grabbing is superior, whereas with ftilt you may just hit with the knee of ftilt and send them flying from the meaty hit of the double fist. Unless you wait for them to land, during which they can merely shield or spot-dodge and punish you. Better to simply grab, dthrow, then chase with a surefire ftilt.

Wow... it's so obvious :O

the problem is, mostly you dant have enough time to stick them
and if you only stick them, they can shield etc.

StoleUrCar said:

Wall of text I had to read-

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Hitstun from utilt is often more then enough to detonate c4. If it isn't, wait for them to airdodge then explode it and they should get hit right when they come out.

Don't question my opponents skill levels, they rival my own and are on par with me. They just make fatal mistakes.

Also 9/10 when it happens once or twice every set of matches. And we have about 50-100 friendlies a day, which leads to about 33 sets of matches.

I get the chance once or twice every set.

That means I get 33-66 chances.

9/10 - Sometimes I do miss the c4 stick, but I still manage to grab them on landing anyways.

:mewtwo:

Gf2tw said:

Wow... it's so obvious :O

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inorite?

:mewtwo:

Staco said:

the problem is, mostly you dant have enough time to stick them
and if you only stick them, they can shield etc.

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Most of the time you don't have time to stick them. But I've had a Marth wiff OoS Dolphin Slash, only because I expect them to use it to counter a shielded ftilt, so I shield, he missed, I c4 stick, I utilt, I say "Now!" he dies.

:mewtwo:

Another thin why nobody is doing this is, often people dont think about this option, because they never used it before.

You can Up B Diddys Up B with MK, but nobody makes it.
In one match of M2K vs. NL: M2K could have killed NL, but he didnt, because he doesnt thought about making Up B in this situation.
Its the same here.

Diddy has better options then to up-B MK's up-B, for example, side-B him BEFORE he does Up-B. lol

Also, exploding a C4 on a recovering Diddy is just to much fun.

Knowing all of your options, and making a split second decision as to which would be the best is how to become better.


:mewtwo:

you continually open my mind to new ideas havokk .-.

That was the purpose of this post.


This is a worthless option, but DID YOU KNOW:

You can Grab Release Stick Wario, might be able to follow up with Utilt if their trying to mash jump rather then shield to get away (chances are they are...) then you can utilt and c4 explode.

Did it once on a friend, but I don't think thats liable enough information for it.


:mewtwo: