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SP's guide to successful projectile spamage--UPDATE

Swordplay

Smash Lord
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Guide to Projectile metagame

Important notes

1
The ultimate goal of any spam game is to "not get hit." While this is nearly impossible and impracticable as Links spam game can break down due to his slow speed. Links projectiles are flexible but they are not fast enough to keep all opponents at bay., you can learn a few tips from this guide to limit the amount of times you are hit.

2
Everyone spams differently. Optimal spamming will also be different for each character and each stage. Instead of focusing on such detail, I will try to focus on building a good core. Each projectile has weaknesses and to make you spam game better, I try to find and highlight the best options for working around those weakness so that your spam game is better faster and stronger. Instead of criticizing the style of spam, please try to take away the concepts.

3
The way I play online is way different than offline. I may do many things with arrow cancels online but that is not the best way to spam in real life. I do that kind of stuff online to take advantage of lag :D

4
This guide assumes you know Links AT’s prior to reading the guide. Any discussion regarding spam game can be taken here. Questions about it as well as questions regarding the AT’s I mentioned should be asked in the Stickied Link Question and Answer Thread



Intro:

Time to give away some secrets. Many Links have no idea how to properly spam. Constantly they find that there spam game is fail and must go into close combat. This most likely happens for 3 reasons, the first is that they do not understand how properly transition into and out of a spam game. The second is that they do not know how to properly spam. The third is that they do not know how to properly speed up there spam. This guide will address all three reasons. Lets get to it. First, I'll brefly outline what each projectile is most useful for and then we will go in depth.

Jab: Transition initiation.
Zair: Transition and spacing
Bomb: The core of your spam game
Boomerang: not the core but a good asset to your spam game due to flexibility
Arrows: Best used as an edge guard tool and for interrupting with arrow canceling. Charging them are for long distance (across FD)


Jab:

In no way shape or form is this a projectile but it needs to be mentioned. I assume that the reader knows what jab canceling is. Most readers and Link players like to jab cancel into things such as grabs to refresh moves or quick moves like d-smash and u-tilt. Some people even finish jabs.

When it comes to spamming the best way to do this is to jab cancel into a retreat. Try jab canceling into a retreating zair or a retreating short hop bomb draw. Most opponents will continue to shield or spot dodge anticipating a grab which can give you space to begin you spam.

To ensure your opponent does not follow, you may want to use one of the options outlined in the first paragraph of this session. Those quick moves and grabs and even finishing the jab. These options keep your opponent on their toes So you can safely do a jab cancel into a retreat sequence.

Not enough Link players do this. Not only does it give you the option and opportunity to go into a spacing and spam game, but it extremely hard to punish when compared to the other jab cancel options. Keep it in the back of your mind and use it. You won't regret it.

Zair:

I won't go into much depth here as its a spacing tool, not a projectile. I do want to say though that this tool is great for moving into projectile spamming and closing projectile spamming back into your close combat game. Because of this potential, it also is a great mind game as you can do either. For example, you could spam and then zair, they think you'll go into close combat mode with something like a dash attack to follow up as a combo but you can just reset the spacing and go back to spam.

If you transition from zair you can cleanly combo out of a spam game. Common transition include zair to dash attack, zair a smash depending on the spacing, zair to grab and zair to jab

Bombs:

It is the easiest to start off with as it should be the core of your spam game. You may use other projectiles as part of your spacing game and spacing is good but if you are truly spamming a projectile game, bombs are your core.

Some of you may have noticed that bombs are AMAZING. You can throw them in two different trajectories. If you learn both these trajectories, you can become a good predictor once you understand the meta game and create a crazy good spam wall. The trick to bombs is that you must remain mobile. If you are not moving around you will be easier to hit. Bombs are great but they are slower that other things like pits arrows and falco's lasers. That's because you have to both throw them and pull them out. Therefore, to be successful, stay mobile when using bombs.

Fortunately, There are a lot of Bomb AT's to assist you with this. Bomb sliding is a great way to restore spacing and adding it to your spam game can only help. F-smash is a great spacing tool and therefore bomb smashing can find its uses. Then there is always ZAC. ZAC is so for catching people off guard and restoring spacing. You can even Jump Cancel Toss (JTC) bomb.

The reason why bombs should be the core of your spam is because opponents often make strange movements and avoid hitting bombs. Bombs bounce off shields which puts opponents in a situation not ideal to them. Often times, they spend thier time running around and taking indirect and slightly less effective approaches than they normally would. This is especially true if you mobilize your bomb techniques and mobility. You can play a "not get hit" game and make it really hard for the opponent to get a good clean combo off on you.

Unfortunately, bombs have one more weakness and its big. Your opponents can catch bombs. Unfortunately there is no way to stop this. There are ways however to make it harder. You could arrow cancel after short hop throwing a bomb or something but that is not optimal as arrow cancel has ending lag and you could have done something better. Allow me to introduce to you the boomerang which if used right can limit the exploitation this weakness.


Boomerang:


The boomerang is a great projectile. It is almost as good as your bomb. It's very flexible. It can be thrown in 3 different directions with 2 different strengths for a total of 6 different types of boomerang throws. It comes out of your hand fast too. Commonly, the boomerang is use to set up things like jab locks and act as a repellent to approaches. This is much in part due to the nature the boomerang. At ranged distances, gale can play with spacing. At short distances the boomerang can knock somebody down (if they don't tech) under certain conditions. The chance of knocking them down is 100% if the conditions (you can control spacing but not always the side they are hit on) are perfect. For strong throws the best spacing is about Bowser length away. For weak throws its Mario length. These are all very good strengths and great uses of the boomerang.

In the spam game, the boomerang fulfills a few rolls. It does fill the roll of a repellent. In its nature, the gale boomerang has a wind effect that can mess up spacing. Also when it hits, it stops the opponents approach as they must reset. I mentioned before that the weakness of bombs is that your opponents can catch them. The boomerang has the potential to stop this if used in proper conjunction with bombs. Even if they do successfully catch the bomb, they still may get a boomerang to the face. Then they must reset and then the bomb is ready to go off in their hand. Often times though, the gale effect of the boomerang will hit the opponent on the way back. This often messes up their timing for catching bombs and makes it much harder. If they do try to go for the catch, they will probably eat a bomb in the face.

Since you should already be mobile with your bombs, you should probably stay mobile with your boomerang. You can use the boomerangs flexibility to compensate and with careful aim and practice, you should always be able to throw the boomerang on the appropriate angle sending it blitzing towards the opponent. One thing to be weary of though. The boomerang may have blitzing speed while out but to actually throw it is another thing. The boomerang is slow to come out so don't over use it. Use it's flexibility to complement the core of your spam. Using it in any other way will result in a complete failure and your opponent will eat you.

Unfortunately, the boomerang has a weakness of its own. Catching the boomerang can be devastating and it can stagnate your projectile game. In the time you caught the boomerang, you could have drawn another bomb. Catching your boomerang also hurts your mobility. If you catch the boomerang in the air, not only do you have to deal with that lag animation, but the extra landing lag can prove to be a real pain. There are only two ways to get around this. The first is to not catch the boomerang. Use your mobility so that the boomerang goes past you so you do not catch it. You do not have to deal with the catching animation and you are free to do whatever you please. Its only weakness is that you do not get the boomerang back for some time and have to wait to throw it again. If you throw it too soon, you get nothing. This option is almost always available and should almost always be used when you are spamming unless you can pull off the more optimal second option. The second option is to out prioritize the catching animation with another move. If you are in the process of another move you do not have to deal with the catching animation. You do not have to deal with getting the boomerang back immediately. To top it off, you are using a move that can harm an opponent. You want to use a move that cannot be punished easily which means that it probably should have good range and cancel/autocancel quickly. Since you are probably mobile it will probably be an air move. Zair fits all of those requirements and is probably the best option. Use this move to cancel out the boomerang catching animation then let it auto cancel. The beauty is that the gale effect can draw people into your Zair so you can continue to combo or go back to spam. If you are really far away, another great option is to pull out a bomb to continue to spam. This also cancels out the boomerang catch animation.

Practice to utilize the second way of canceling your boomerang animation. Zair is a great boon to your projectile game play and even if it doesn’t hit, they probably won’t be that close so you can go back into spam. This little tip is perhaps the most important part of speeding up your projectile spam game.

Lastly, It takes longer to pull out a bomb and throw it. If your mobility is limited and you fear punishment a quick boomerang throw may or may not help. Often People follow this up with a semi-charged or uncharged arrow. Then they avoid the catching animation via zair or Short hop bomb pull. This is a good spam strategy but it limits your mobility and ability "Not to get hit" much more than a bomb spam. Use it when your going to be limited anyway.


Arrows:


Arrows have 5 uses. They are 1. Edge guarding. 2 spacing 3. Interruption. 4. Locking 5. mindgames. It is okay to charge an arrow for a long range shot once in a while but doing it anything more than on a rare occasion will get you in trouble.

Let’s talk edge guarding first. Arrows are a great tool for edge guarding. Especially if you have a terrible offstage and edge guarding game. I mean Link has a bad offstage game as it is but some people like me fail hard at offstage and make it look so much worse than it is. Bombs hit your opponents up so don’t use them unless you’re counting on a stage spike. The boomerang can actually help the opponent because of the gale unless you are gale guarding which is very hard to do and not optimal as Link has better edge guarding tools in almost every situation. That leaves arrows. Take careful aim. Your goal is to hit them before they use their up special (most characters) so that they loose recovery distance.

Let’s talk spacing next. Zair is usually more optimal but lets pretend your facing the wrong direction for a Zair and your opponent is running in on you. Jump away from your opponent and do a bair. This will give you some initial space. Next, reverse arrow cancel him Reverse Arrow Cancel or RAC as I call it is a technique that combines Links arrow cancel technique with the general AT special reversals or b reversals. Yes, Zair is more optimal but this technique shouldn’t be overlooked as it has its uses.

Interruption time. Your spam game should be mobile as I have stated before. This is one of the main reasons why. If you are mobile in the air you can fast fall and stuff as well as arrow cancel of even fast fall into an arrow cancel. I should mention that arrow canceling is not a good way to spam. Arrow canceling has bad end lag and it stops your mobility. Therefore this technique is only good fore interruption. If your opponent becomes predictable and you know what he is going to do, fast fall into an arrow cancel. You’ll have to reset yourself but so will he and you did get some damage in so you did gain something. Plus, you probably stopped his attack and saved yourself some damage. Arrow canceling can also block a few other projectiles that might cause a nuisance.

I'll briefly discuss Arrow Locking here. There are times where you can land a move and your opponent fails to tech. Such an example would be BACL (Boomerang Arrow Cancel Lock) This is when you throw a boomerang and it hits and go into an arrow cancel to lock them. Arrows can Lock so use and arrow canceling is the best way to do it because it eliminates beginning animation. After the lock. Run up for a spin attack. Don't go for BACL consistently because it may backfire once they get use to it. To do it, you need the boomerang but don't forget that bombs are your main spam tool, not the boomerang. You also need to either full hop the boomerang or use your double jump to properly get in the AC and this can take away from movement. This is something you may want to try on a rare occasion to catch your opponent off guard. Stick to your normal spam game and only go for it if you see a good opportunity. If you succeed your in for a treat. If you mess it up, you may have restricted your movement for an extended period of time and your opponent might be able to find an opening to approach. Just don't forget that if the opportunity presents itself, even if its not BACL, arrows can lock like a jab lock and force a slow get up. Don't rely on BACL for this, Look for other safer setups as well. Even if they are more rare. This can lead to many things that can help you.

Finally, let’s talk mind games. It is okay to charge an arrow for a long range shot once in a while but doing it anything more than on a rare occasion will get you in trouble. One of the greatest mind games of all is the RAR bair approach. This approach gives you two great mind game options. The first is to Reverse Arrow Cancel out of it. It isn’t as good as an approach as Zair. But, you still want to do this every once in a while so when you do the other option, your opponent won’t expect it. The other option is out of bair is to craq walk out of it and make your opponent eat an F-tilt. F-tilt can kill at higher percents and this is a great way to make use of one of Links harder to use moves.


Conclusion:


Here is what you should have gotten out of this guide.

1. Stay mobile. If you stay mobile, you will not only be harder to hit but have more options such as arrow canceling for interruption. Link has a lot of flexibility in his projectiles so they are not hindered when you go mobile as you can still control them to a great extent and hit your target. Bomb sliding and Jump cancel throw bombs are a great way to stay mobil and "not get hit"

2. Zair is a great transition weapon, not just a spacing tool. It helps you transition in and out of spam games. However, do not overlook other ways to transition. Pivot Boosting, Craq Walk and other techniques can help you create good spacing and are thus great ways to transition in and out of spam games.

3. Ways to speed up your projectile game. I mentioned canceling your gale catching animation with zair. It is a great way to speed up your game and provide an easy flow of your projectile game. If you use properly utilize Links flexible projectiles learn the trajectories your spam game will seem really fast because your not giving your opponent much breathing room. If you find that your opponent is catching on and slowing down your spam game transition into a spacing and close combat game. But whatever you do, do not approach. Make the transition when he approaches you.

4. Because Links spam is mobile, platforms provide great mind games to Links spam. Many people think differently but platforms are actually a boon to Links spam game. Why else would people consider Rainbow Cruise and Norfair to be Links best stages? Mobilize platforms to your advantage. Use mind games to avoid opponents and projectiles to keep them away. If you do this, you can effectively play a "not get hit" game



Credit:

Thanks to Aurashade for being a constant inspiration by being Aurashade
Thanks to Havokk for examining the conditions of the gale boomerang Knockdown
 

sasook

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Wow, awesome write-up Swordplay. Only criticisms I have are

-it's roles, not rolls lol
-you wrote 3 uses for arrows, then wrote about 4

The content itself, is really good.
 

Twilght Link

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I consider myself a great projectile user and i approve this guide, it seems to express my opinions of projectiles spamming into words O.O.

<Approval stamp>

The only thing is that, during your arrow paragraph, you said "3 reasons" but gave 4 XD
 

Swordplay

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Why? Pulling out a bomb when your 'rang returns will prevent the catch animation. So why not pull it out?
If your not going to zair as your far away this is actually something you SHOULD do. That's why I just added it to the guide.

I will edit the guide to fix my accidents point them out and also where they are, (I don't feel like reading my own guide)

Edit:

Ya okay Lootic. It's not a good idea to pull out a bomb to cancel the rang catching animaiton if you have a rider. That's why you use Zair or even Fair in rare situations. However, if there is no rider. This is a good option.
 
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I never pulls bombs when rang returns cause it often ends up with me being punished for it, when you pull a bomb you limit yourself from ordinary gale riding punishment such as dsmash, utlit, jab etc + you cant throw a bomb you are pulling, you often just have the option to sheild or dodge an oncoming attack IF you have finished to pull the bomb. It leaves you open.

Maybe I should have written , never pull out a bomb if you have a returning rang that your opponent can ride, cause that was what I meant.
 

Legan

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You didnt point out how ****ing slow the gale is. The throwing animation gives your opponent ample time to punish you so while it is good to be used as much as possible, throwing it at the right times is also crucial. Other than that, nice guide.
 

Swordplay

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You didnt point out how ****ing slow the gale is. The throwing animation gives your opponent ample time to punish you so while it is good to be used as much as possible, throwing it at the right times is also crucial. Other than that, nice guide.
In terms of actually throwing it yes unfortunately but in terms of its speed one its out it's not all that bad. That's why you only use it to complement your bomb spam. Timing is crucial. Don't use the boomerang in a spacing game, it's slow and it will fail. It's more useful for purely spam game.I should have initially but I decided to elaborate on this particular aspect much in thanks to you reminding me.

A spam combo video!
Anyway, I'll be down in aurora IL on the 10th probably. I have a friend ITF who plays IC and will probably want a rematch. I'll record it and put something up. I'll point out all the little things that a Link player could do to improve their spam game.

But when I do this, please don't pay attention to my failure at the mastersword.

O it won't be a combo video though. It will just be an instructional video of me spamming against IC the whole match. I'll be pointing out things I could have done (Like the rare bombslide (I utterly fail at it)) as well as things I already do well (ZAC and canceling the catching animation) to help better progress the meta game of Link's spam.
 

Anonano

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If the IC's get a hold of you then it won't matter how good or bad your mastersword is. :p
 

Swordplay

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That's why its the perfect matchup to demonstrate a spam game. Against the IC you have only to choices.

1. Spam and run away
2. Close combat and get CG to death
 

SuSa

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I see no mention of the BACL, and I don't see anywhere where it says Arrow's can "lock" like a Jab can.

BTW on some getups you can BACL, direct momentum forward as you jump, and BACL again.

I've gotten 4 successful BACL's in a row before.

:mewtwo:
 

Swordplay

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Boomerang Arrow Cancel Lock (and the fact that just plain arrows can lock)

Both are useful but you can never predict whether the boomerang will knock em to the ground (only 50% chance) Also offline, they can tech much easier so its unreliable. (you can tech that right?)

Thus going for this is often hard. to pull of a true BALC. You must full hop, throw the boomerang at the downwards angle, then come down and arrow cancel.

Its so rare that it even happens. I mean on Wifi its really useful because these kind of things take advantage of lag. In real life though, I've found that trying to apply this often ends up getting me punished. Faster characters avoid the BALC setup and approach me during the end lag of the Arrow Cancel.

Thus the BALC has a really limited use but It's great if you pull it off. Run up there and get a free spin attack. I'll mention the fact that arrows can lock though. its a worthy mention i suppose.
 

SuSa

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I've pulled off BACL a ton in tourneys as well.

The knockdown is 100% so long as you are a certain distance away, it can be teched but so long as you aren't completely spamming the boomerang alone, often times they won't expect it.

You can easily BACL, then just SH Boomerang throw > Arrow, and so long as they don't tech it works.

Also, difficulty is never a matter. It's always an option.

IC's infinites are a pain in the ***, that doesn't make some people not want to ban them. Because no matter how difficult, there is the chance that its THERE and it WILL BE USED.

Same applies to D3 infinites, and the Snake infinite (that needs to be like frame perfect on the most of the cast)

Difficulty is never a factor, and if you read the message I sent you, its a lot more practical then you think.

Also, you shouldn't be going for the arrow unless you see it knock them down. If it knocks them down and you BACL (or hell, even a normal arrow), you shouldn't get getting punished. Unless they somehow tech towards you, and approach you before you can jab. (which I believe, possibly, only sonic can do? rofl)

I've rarely been punished during a BACL, and thats when I first started to use it and always spammed the arrow before I saw my results.

:mewtwo:
 

Swordplay

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I want this to be a general guide not a swordplay guide

Therefore I added it.

It's not part of my spam game. I like to focus on other things. This type of thing requires you to run up and spin attack if you successful. I'm so use to just spamming and running that I never look for this and I should.

Unforutnatly the draw back to BACL is you need to either use both your jumps or full hop to set it up. that can take away movment.

It is worthy to mention. *section added*
 

SuSa

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Not sure if you're working on it.

You mentioned nothing of the boomerang knocking opponents down, what causes them to be knocked down towards you (for example: hitting a Fox in the endlag of dair, when the back of his head faces you (his BACK! that's the keyword) which spaces PERFECTLY for a Jab Lock.

The knockdown is 100% at a certain distance, and if they tech it (normally they tech-roll away, or straight up in my experience) you can tech chase them. If you knock them down, and happen to have a bomb in hand, you can toss the bomb and it (may) hit. You can make an attempt to pivot boost > Jab. You can tech-chase and grab them ( I did this a few times as well, online and offline ).

Just giving examples of why that knockback is so important.

I've noticed the people here are far (far) more bomb/arrow orientated then me.

But the boomerang is one of my specialties for Link.

:mewtwo:
 
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I see no mention of the BACL, and I don't see anywhere where it says Arrow's can "lock" like a Jab can.

BTW on some getups you can BACL, direct momentum forward as you jump, and BACL again.

I've gotten 4 successful BACL's in a row before.

:mewtwo:
Ive actually tried to make your BACL, but I never get that nice knockback from the rang that sends the opponent straight down into the floor at that distance.
 

Swordplay

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going for a jab lock is extremely risky.

Conditions have to be perfect and if they aren't you'll loose out on another opportunity you had if you had chosen another option. Besides that kinda stuff is close combat. This is a projectile guide.

If you want to get into jab locks read another guide.

I'll briefly mention it but I'm not going into much detail.

EDIT: WTF I'VE ALREADY GONE OVER THIS. READ THE DAM THING!!!


Boomerang:


The boomerang is a great projectile. It is almost as good as your bomb. It's very flexible. It can be thrown in 3 different directions with 2 different strengths for a total of 6 different types of boomerang throws. It comes out of your hand fast too. Commonly, the boomerang is use to set up things like jab locks and act as a repellent to approaches. This is much in part due to the nature that the boomerang has a 50% chance to knock somebody down if they don't tech. The chance is higher if the conditions are perfect. Not even I know all of these conditions though. These are all very good strengths and great uses of the boomerang.
 

SuSa

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Ive actually tried to make your BACL, but I never get that nice knockback from the rang that sends the opponent straight down into the floor at that distance.
Watch my spacing for it:

Combo video (has it a few times, once on a Falcon in the beginning and at 3:37~)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYUAykx7mmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33PkyjUb_7Q @ 1:27~ again at 2:22~

I have more but don't feel like finding them.

EDIT:

I didn't see there last time I checked, and I do know the conditions though. Guess you will continue to not know them.

:mewtwo:
 

Swordplay

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If you share the conditions I will put them in there and will credit you for your knowledge
 

SuSa

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Not sharing, figure it out on your own. I could really give two ****s about getting credit if I did tell you anyways.

After all, the Link boards are pretty self-dependent, they don't need someone like me with useless information.

:mewtwo:
 
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Not sharing, figure it out on your own. I could really give two ****s about getting credit if I did tell you anyways.

After all, the Link boards are pretty self-dependent, they don't need someone like me with useless information.

:mewtwo:
you are a part of our family havokk, though I like your new sarcastic style.
 

SuSa

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The Conditions is spacing (which has to do with launcher speed, in mph)

I believe the launcher speed has to be over 2800 (haven't gotten it lower) to knockdown. This normally requires your opponent to be jumping into the boomerang, or for you to be a set distance apart or closer. The maximum distance apart to reach 2800mph seems to be just larger then 1 "Bowser" length away, like a Bowser and 1-2 pikmin max.

So you should be able to just TIP them with Fsmash, and thats the range assuming neither of you are moving, I won't go into the mathematics for "knockdown" with acceleration and movement in play, because it still just has to reach over 2800mph for Launcher speed, and I haven't quite worked out the mathematics for that yet.

Here's the data I gathered for the closest non-knockdown hit I could get (didn't try to many times), and the closest (therefore strongest) knockdown I could get (didn't try more then like 7 times)

Data said:
STRONG TOSSES:

Zelda:

2835mph - Knockdown (Near min?)

2361mph - No Knockdown

King DeDeDe:

2911mph - Knockdown (Near min?)

2197mph - No Knockdown

Game and Watch:

2879mph - Knockdown (Near min?)

2481mph - No Knockdown

Weak Tosses:

G&W:

2879pmh - Knockdown (Closer then SMASH TOSS!)

2481mph - No Knockdown

King D3:

2911 mph - Knockdown (Closer then Smash toss!)

2197mph - No Knockdown

Zelda:

2835mph - Knockdown (Closer then Smash Toss!)

2361mph - No Knockdown
As you can see, all 3 speeds were character based for knockdown, the type of toss did not matter because it requires the same amount of Launcher Speed to knock down the character, no matter what. These aren't the only 3 character I've tested, but they are the lightest, heavyweights, and a medium-lightweight. The MPH would only change slightly (ever so slightly) due to character weight. "Distance" doesn't matter to a degree, because if it knocks down it will always be the same Launcher Speed. However "Distance" plays a roll on how you REACH THAT LAUNCHER SPEED.

And as you can also see, The 3 speeds that didn't knockdown were below 2800mph, but those still need more testing.

The direction your opponent is knocked down in depends on where the boomerang hits. If you hit their right side, they will go left. If you hit their left side, they will go right. During certain animations (eg: Fox's dair endlag on ground) your opponent exposes their other-side hitbox to you, and you can hit them towards you. (eg2: Falco's fsmash) Now this is highly situational, but useful to know nontheless.

Condition 3 is strength thrown (ties in with condition 1) if you do a weak toss rather then a "smash"/strong toss, they need to be closer to you to be knocked down. The Launcher Speed however, remains the same. This means the distance is fixed, that weight affects Launcher Speed, and movement may affect Launcher Speed. (That last part needs more testing)

Again, the distance for a Smash Toss to KNOCKDOWN is about 1 "Bowser" length away, while a "weak toss" is about 1 "Mario" away. That's a huge difference for spacing!

tl;dr Lot's of data that shows only 2 things matter: Spacing and which side you hit.

EDIT:

Thank you's. I want to hear them. Also if you want me to continue research and make pretty little pictures, I want an apology from Arkive. Whether or not he feels he owes me one.

EDIT 2:
Ya, you 'went over it' with false information. That's just as bad as not going over it. kthx.

EDIT 3:
Swordplay said:
This type of thing requires you to run up and spin attack if you successful
Not true, you can throw a bomb, DAC up to them, run up and Jump-Cancel Up-B, start another BACL, with the best possible spacing you can run up and nair/fair, and MAYBE dair.

EDIT 4:
Swordplay said:
EDIT: WTF I'VE ALREADY GONE OVER THIS. READ THE DAM THING!!!
How much longer until **** like this stops? Don't assume I didn't read it before commenting. I simply missed it, you don't have to be an ******* about it.



:mewtwo:
 

Swordplay

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Thats very interesting. I'll have to sort through this when I wake up tomorrow.

But before I go to bed I want to confirm something.

From the way this looks, The condition (Spacing) ((can't control what side you hit all the time i guess)) are not character specific but rather really more on whether you use a weak or strong through. That is what it sound and looks like as I go through the data. Weight does not seem to matter. That would mean you could use a specific spacing and apply this to all characters. Is that correct or am I completely on the wrong track?
 

SuSa

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You are 100% correct.

Same distance, every character. All that matters is if you use the strong or weak toss (and obviously from the data, you should always use a strong toss)

May I mention though, a weak toss sends them farther away (No Knockdown) it seems like, then a strong toss. Does that mean theres more of a carried-over 'wind' effect in a weak toss? I'm not sure, but it seems like it.

The condition is spacing, and if you're wondering which way they'll go, just take a look at where the boomerang hits them.

Strong toss is about a Bowser length max, weak toss is like a Mario or less (2/3's closer it seems like).

I'll probably do even more testing tomorrow. All of the above data is like 3 weeks old, I just don't feel like sharing anymore with the Link boards.

:mewtwo:
 

Onomanic

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You didnt point out how ****ing slow the gale is. The throwing animation gives your opponent ample time to punish you so while it is good to be used as much as possible, throwing it at the right times is also crucial. Other than that, nice guide.
Which is where the rangs nice range comes in after throwing a few bombs and zairing a bit.
A spam combo video!
When I do get Brawl again, I could make a vid of some of my techniques. I haven't made a video like that in awhile :D

More good spam joins the thread! :O
 

NintenJoe

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lol, nice guide swordplay. Sharing your knowledge of projectile spamming will help a lot of people on these boards. I didn't read it though, it's too big. D:
 

Swordplay

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Credit:

Thanks to Havokk for examining the conditions of the gale boomerang Knockdown
Thank you Havokk. Sorry I cant force somebody to apologize its something that's out of my power. And you don't have to research if you don't want to I can perform a few tests when I get back from vacation.


This type of thing requires you to run up and spin attack if you successful.
I should not have used the word required, that's just what I see most people do.
 

SuSa

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Swordplay said:
This is much in part due to the nature that the boomerang has a 50% chance to knock somebody down if they don't tech
Take that part down, it has a 100% or a 0% chance, never a 50% chance. However you should keep the mentioning of "they can tech the knockdown" somewhere in there.

:mewtwo:
 

SuSa

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Boomerangs my specialty, I love the thing.

Ask me to spam with bombs and arrows and I'd laugh at you and say you're crazy. I can't spam worth anything with bombs and arrows. I rarely use bombs unless its against a Falco, or to blow myself up. I only use arrows to lock people.

My boomerangs going around everywhere, all the time, until my opponent finds a way to use it against me and use its wind effects to there advantage. (Charging smashes, jumping into it for a boosted aerial, reflecting it, etc.)

So no problem, and in fact you should thank Lootic. He made me laugh enough to post my data.

:mewtwo:
 

Swordplay

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Will do. I have one more question that I keep forgetting to ask though.

What if only one of the conditions is met? Are both conditions required for the knockdown?
 

SuSa

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There really is only one requirement.

When you are a set distance apart (Bowser length or closer) you will also throw the boomerang at the required knockdown for that character (every character, the actual knockback is fixed dependant on character. So the "true" knockback is not set because its character dependant, but it will always have enough knockback at a certain distance or closer)

Then there is the requirement on which direction it knocks down, which is really just an 'exploit' of character hitboxes. (when you hit their back like I mention, it registers the boomerang as if you threw it from the other side even then you didn't)

:mewtwo:
 
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