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Common Misconceptions about Lucario

Kitamerby

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If you feel I missed anything, please add to this list.

  • Has no damage cap on his Aura
    This is completely false. Lucario's aura caps at 170%, at which point he is exactly 2.02x as strong as he was at 0% (damage-output wise). You can find the formula here.

  • Range increases with Aura
    Lucario's attacks all have exactly the same range at all % (aside from Aura Sphere's size). Lucario's Fsmash at 0% will not be any smaller than his Fsmash at 120%.

  • Priority on "Aura Bursts" increases with Aura
    Alright, here's something you non-Luc mains probably didn't know/notice before reading this topic. Lucario has two parts to every A-attack that he has (aside from Dash Attack, so just exclude that move for this section): the "Aura Burst" and the body-hitbox on his paws/body. Lucario's "aura bursts" on his attacks will never clank with anything. They have trandenscendal priority, just like Meta Knight's sword slashes. However, unlike Meta Knight's sword slashes, Lucario's aura-based attacks generally have considerably less range, and because of this, you probably never noticed this ability of Lucario's since most disjointed hitboxes that matter usually outrange Lucario's Aura anyways (other than Luc's Fsmash, Ftilt, and Usmash). Now, here's the cool part that makes Lucario's hitboxes completely different from anyone else: If something gets past the first hitbox (The aura burst), it will usually clank with the body hit/hurtbox! This is why Lucario can bat away projectiles with his attacks, while Meta Knight cannot. Since the body hitbox also increases damage output with the aura burst, its priority technically increases with damage, which means it clanks with more stuff as damage increases! However, don't be fooled. This small priority increase is NOT enough to protect you. Don't ever rely on this small boost to your "priority." Chances are, if you can't beat out a move at 0%, you still won't be able to beat it out at 170%.

  • Lucario's recovery sucks and is extremely easy to gimp.
    Here's a biggie. When people first look at Lucario's moveset, one of the first things they notice is that Lucario's Extremespeed does no damage. Immediately, they'll then assume that Lucario's recovery sucks and that he has one of the worst recoveries in the game. This is just plain untrue. Lucario's recovery is actually above average. His amazing floatiness allows him to simply drift back to the stage after most hard hits, and if need be, he can use Fair, Dair (as both a stall and/or an attack), Airdodge, Double Team if you're feeling lucky, or Aura Sphere to ward off would-be edgeguarders. If need be, he also has a very nice double jump to further take advantage of his floatiness. ExtremeSpeed itself isn't even all that bad of a recovery move when compared to others in terms of effectiveness. Since edgehogging ignores any attack frames that most recovery moves can dish out, it doesn't even matter as much against most characters as people think it should. ExtremeSpeed gives incredible vertical and horizontal distance, combined with Lucario's naturally amazingly large ledgesnap range. It can also be curved to avoid certain would-be edgeguarders, like Mario, and to allow incredible recoveries from awkward angles and under stages that other characters can only dream about achieving. Not only that, but Lucario can even Wall Cling directly out of Extremespeed to take full advantage of his immense wall jump (best one in the game by far. You can almost clear the rock cliff in Pokemon Stadium from a short hop wall jump to put it into perspective). Most legal stages have walls to take advantage from, and Lucario can even wall cling to many ledges themselves while they're being edgehogged if the Lucario has perfect aim! With all these options, gimping a Lucario is 10% skill and 90% the Lucario screwing up.

  • Double Team is the best counter attack in the game.
    Double Team is slow to come out for a counter, has very few activation frames, and people can actually shield the retaliatory strike, which is the main reason that good Lucarios rarely if ever use the move.

  • Lucario's Roll is top tier and should be used constantly, especially as a faster way to get around.
    Lucario's roll is by far the longest and possibly the quickest, and spamming it is actually faster than running if I recall right, however it should not be used often, and should almost NEVER be used as an approach unless you are absolutely sure you will not be punished. Rolling has a set distance, which makes it very punishable. You're also vulnerable before and after a roll. Rolling away from your opponent is a good idea at close quarters after a clank due to Lucario's jab being a bit slower than everyone else's, and rolling away can be good spacing in some circumstances. Rolling into your opponent is just plain punishable (most of the time) and can mean death at stupidly low % if predicted by a character with a power attack, like Ike, Snake, DK, or even Captain Falcon. In general though, if you still need to read these guides for help using Lucario, you should probably stay away from Luc's rolls.

  • Lucario is a lightweight to vertical kills/Lucario is a heavyweight
    The first is just plain a common misconception, and the latter was caused by the Prima guide. Lucario is ever-so-slightly above average when it comes to surviving vertical kills, and is slightly above average in horizontal resistance.

  • Usmash's hitbox can be explained by logic
    Completely and utterly false. There is no explanation to Lucario's Usmash's hitbox. It is one of the countless mysteries of the world.

  • Azen/Lee is the only reason that Lucario's so high on the tier list.
    Lucario is a good character. Get over it. As an extremely effective defensive (or offensive if you're good enough/Azen), Lucario deserves his tier placing. While Azen definitely brought attention to Lucario, stating that the only/a huge part of the reason that Lucario is so high on the tier list is due to his efforts alone an ignorant and narrow-minded assumption. Lucario's basic abilities are exceptional in their own right, and if Azen did not bring attention to the character, either someone else would've, or someone else would've simply taken a good look at Lucario and judged him accordingly on theory, another thing that Lucario performs quite fine in. Although there is no way to truly know whether Lucario would have his current placing on the tier list, or whether he would be under Olimar if Azen had not chosen him, there are still many irrefutable points on account of his basic statistics that should earn him a high-tier spot even without Azen as a flagship player. With great disjointed range on his attacks, his special aura/body hitbox priority system, absolutely superb destructive power at high %s, definitely one of the most versatile, overall best projectiles in the game, an overall effective recovery, heavenly aerials that provide true aerial superiority in all but a handful of battles, and Aura modifiers to make him an absolute monster of a survivalist, while at the same time granting true "second chances," taking even the most hopeless, desparate, seemingly irreversable battles and through the symbiotic unity of Player and Lucario, allowing the pair to outright defy reality itself and strike back with inconcievable force to wrest victory from the terrifying, insolent jaws of defeat!

  • Sandbagging at low % is a good idea.
    Do not sandbag at low % with Lucario. It is just a waste of time and will put you at a serious disadvantage later on in the match, as you could be racking on damage at this point. Play to win regardless of your standing in the match.

  • Underestimating a Lucario until he reaches the 100% point
    This is something I've seen in quite a few matchup threads. They think that they can play however they want with no problems until Lucario reaches that "magic number," which is when they believe they should start playing seriously. Lucario at low % racks damage FAST with incredible combos that can come out of nowhere. Chances are, you'll both be nearing kill % at relatively the same pace, even though the Lucaro probably won't be able to outright kill you yet, which is probably the reason for this misconception. Lucario at low % when on the same stock his opponent cannot kill very easily, but do not simply write him off like that. Lucario's power grows fast, and at around 30-50%, he should be able to kill you at a reasonable percent. Even earlier if he's behind a stock, as he gets a default boost to his damage output and kill power to help him along. However, he can still knock you offstage and then finish you off with an offstage kill with Bair, Dair, or Aura Sphere at a regular kill % when he's very low, or he could simply gimp due to his low knockback attacks. So remember that even if you take him out early, he's still in this.

  • Underestimating a Lucario in any situation.
    We've been saying this from the very release of Brawl: Lucario is the King of Comebacks. No matter how far behind you are in the match, the game is never over until the announcer screams "GAME!" This goes for any character, but Lucario is especially rewarded for this mentality. Lucario gets an aura boost for each stock he gets behind, as well as his normal aura boost. If you give Lucario half a chance, I don't care if you're up 2 stocks and he's at 127%, Lucario can and WILL smash your face in and take you down. Lucario lives in the clutch. His bed lays on the line between victory and defeat. He eats risk and reward for breakfast. He personifies "not giving up," and he will destroy you in battle if you ever forget these words.
 

tedward2000

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I think you could changing the bullets from bullets to, True/False things. (just an idea)

More colors, sizes and now you got a good looking thread.
-t2

*Edit

Also, throw in there, that lucario can wall cling on the very edge an edgehanger is hanging from.
Aka, those very pixels. Its not common, and not sought after, but lucario can do it.
 

Gaussis

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I don't understand the usmash hitbox thing. Can someone please explain?
 

Browny

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lmao I was actually trying to map usmash hitbox (like ive done with sonics attacks) and kita's right... its impossible. It definitely moves over time, it seems to originate from behind him, and then quickly moves across his body as it grows bigger, getting even more vertical range. And then theres the whole problem of it going right through wolfs fsmash from front-on which is just absurd and i cant explain it lol
 

phi1ny3

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Another misconception is that AA-FP works reliably, almost like a combo. It is easy to do, but someone who knows its coming can avoid it and even punish it.
 

Fizzle

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It's about time somebody wrote this. I've gotten tired of people complaining about Lucario's "increasing range" at high percents.

Luc mains need to dash grab more. Luc has one of the fastest dash grabs, and while his range is still **** poor it's a significant improvement over his standing grab.

Usmash is too funny. It's such a bad move, but I just love the looks on people's faces when they get hit by that lingering hitbox.

Force Palm can be broken out of like a normal grab. If the Lucario attempts more than 2 at a low %, it's relatively easy to mash out.
Sssh, Kita.
 

Gaussis

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It's about time somebody wrote this. I've gotten tired of people complaining about Lucario's "increasing range" at high percents.
Honestly, I can't tell if I should take these seriously or lol. I thought people knew that the hitboxes stay the same. I mean I don't use Lucario often and know this. :ohwell:
 

Ilucamy

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If you give Lucario half a chance, I don't care if you're up 2 stocks and he's at 127%, Lucario can and WILL smash your face in and take you down. Lucario lives in the clutch. His bed lays on the line between victory and defeat. He eats risk and reward for breakfast. He personifies "not giving up," and he will destroy you in battle if you ever forget these words.
This is sig material right here.
 

BurtonEarny

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Luca IS the king of comebacks. I was playing my friend and got to one life and he still had three(low percent on first life even) on the night I picked up luca to actually learn him. I then went off on him and won at about 120 percent. I had never felt so pro, but 1 against 2 stock comebacks happen alot with lucario.
 

DRD

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Thanks for writing this up; I don't normally play Brawl (can't stand the ridiculous physics), but ucario is definitely my "main", if I have one.
 

Browny

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add "People dont only use Lucario because they are furries" to the misconceptions
By using dont and misconceptions in the same sentence you are making a double negative situation... unless thats what you meant in the first place :O
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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...THAT's a new one.
I haven't seen it in the past month or so, but before the whole banning of MK stuff was going on it was running around.

This is often synonymous with the "Azen is the only reason lucario is up on the tier list, not because of character make-up and potential" argument.
Pretty much.
 

Milln

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I thought Lucario had more range than MK (I thought that his range was what made him special). If it's not true, you can add that.
THe topic title is "COMMON" misconceptions about Lucario. =o

Also, he does, sorta, on a few moves.
 

Dark Paladin X

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If you feel I missed anything, please add to this list.

  • Double Team is the best counter attack in the game.
    Double Team is slow to come out for a counter, has very few activation frames, and people can actually shield the retaliatory strike, which is the main reason that good Lucario's rarely if ever use the move.

I disagree with you here, Double Team is considered to be the best and the strongest in SSBB. When comes to being juggled (such as, urggghh.... Marth), I will either try to pull off a down aerial or Double Team, but I would mostly try to pull off a Double Team since it has far better killing potentials than down aerial.
 

phi1ny3

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I disagree with you here, Double Team is considered to be the best and the strongest in SSBB. When comes to being juggled (such as, urggghh.... Marth), I will either try to pull off a down aerial or Double Team, but I would mostly try to pull off a Double Team since it has far better killing potentials than down aerial.
Hey Dark Paladin, long time, no see!

We found a long time ago that DT may be the strongest overall, but not the best. In the air, it is tricky to get DT to activate, as it stalls your fall speed, the only time I use it is against snake's utilt in juggling (and even so, I recommend not using it then).

On the topic of DT though, I've found that you can cut the lag down by just a little bit by shielding at a certain point (like when the second paw passes through the torso), and cuts out about a 1/3 of the lag of the whiffed DT. Still ultra laggy tho.
 

Timbers

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Misconceptions of a common misconceptions thread about lucario.

Lucario's grabrange is poor. All characters have this vertical property to their grabs, but the height at which their grabrange sits is different depending on character. The grabrange isn't completely vertical, either. It's more spherical. The grabrange is the longest when at the "sweetspot" of the grab (the hands in most case) and it curves into the body further it leaves the sweetspot. Luc's grabrange sits at a medium high, so while he may be able to grab things that are at his head, he's also incapable of grabbing some characters who have some form of landing lag that puts them in an extreme crouching position (Wario's nair for example). An example to this is Metaknight, where his grabrange actually exceeds his own body in vertical terms, but also covers the ground completely. An extreme version of Luc's grabrange is Snake or Ganon, where his grab's active frames are very high up on his body, which allow him to actually grab most characters out of shorthops, but a no-go to some landing lag frames and I believe some crouching characters as well.
 

phi1ny3

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I wish it were false but it's virtually impossible to grab any character oos so long as they're at least decent with their spacing.
Actually, I've found that run shield is very good (its better than marth's, since he has to kind of walk instead to put up shield), since Lucario's traction is so good, I've found the dashing animation to go away faster. But I do agree that jab to grab is so much better, it gets grab to an offensive level that shield grab just can't do, and more damage, mindgames, and more! It's SCIENCE!
 

Samuelson

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Well against Marth like to Power Shield their Fair and if i'm feeling risky i'll run up and grab them. If i don't PS thier fair then i usually run away like a little *****, pitch a tent and camp some more. Because that's how you have to play against Marth :/
 
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  • Underestimating a Lucario in any situation.
    We've been saying this from the very release of Brawl: Lucario is the King of Comebacks. No matter how far behind you are in the match, the game is never over until the announcer screams "GAME!" This goes for any character, but Lucario is especially rewarded for this mentality. Lucario gets an aura boost for each stock he gets behind, as well as his normal aura boost. If you give Lucario half a chance, I don't care if you're up 2 stocks and he's at 127%, Lucario can and WILL smash your face in and take you down. Lucario lives in the clutch. His bed lays on the line between victory and defeat. He eats risk and reward for breakfast. He personifies "not giving up," and he will destroy you in battle if you ever forget these words.
*stands up and applauds* Thank you for the epicness. MANLY TEARS. ;-;
 

AquaTech

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Excellent list, Kitamerby.
I actually thought 3 of those things were true...
I need to take that advice about rolling too much. I assume his roll is so good (which it is), so I abuse it like crazy, and usually get in trouble for it.
 

Milln

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Another misconception:

All Lucario players are vegetarians.

-While it may appear that every Lucario player you meet only eats things that are non-meat, it simply isn't true. There are still quite a few players that haven't been converted over to how tasty fakemeat is. =3
 

Kitamerby

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Excellent list, Kitamerby.
I actually thought 3 of those things were true...
I need to take that advice about rolling too much. I assume his roll is so good (which it is), so I abuse it like crazy, and usually get in trouble for it.
Remember that rolling in itself isn't a bad thing with Lucario. In fact, in certain matchups, (like a Peach dairing at your head. :<) or after being grab-released, it might not be a bad idea to roll away to keep yourself out of trouble (spotdodges can work though in most situations where you could roll, although not always. Experience will tell you when and where each should be used). There also really are times where rolling behind your foe would actually be useful and would allow you a free attack... It's just the fact that if we tell you that his roll is good before you're ready, you'll try to abuse it before truly learning how to utilize it. The truth of the matter is that with all characters, (Lucario especially since rolling into foes is so tempting), you should probably start out learning how to play without the roll. Once you begin to understand what you can do without it, only then can you learn what you can truly do with it. Keep that in mind, new Lucarios, and consider it a review for you older Lucs.
 

Browny

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who on earth ever said most lucario mainers are vegetarians...

btw rolling is faster than running with lucario... lol
 

Aurasmash14

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Another misconception:

All Lucario players are vegetarians.

-While it may appear that every Lucario player you meet only eats things that are non-meat, it simply isn't true. There are still quite a few players that haven't been converted over to how tasty fakemeat is. =3
how true.......... how very very true. i up to know am still quite carnivorous.
 

tedward2000

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vegetarians in the context of either:
pure veggie,
or a splash of meat
or just meat
or omnivorous.

All with a touch of Chipolte Sauce. Which is a known fact now too.
-All lucario players have Chipolte Sauce on their Subway Subs (any kind).
-t2

*edit
1,300th post. Why am i still on this site anymore?
o0
 
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